I planning to buy softimage XSI foundation

[Reactor]

The art really has to be the winner in all of this. One of the best renders I've seen was done in Truespace 4, thanks to good lighting and great texture work. TS4 is nothing compared to either Carrara 5 or XSI, and yet, he managed an excellent piece of art. Keeping this in mind, any bit of software is perfect for the job (feature packed or not), if it helps create the art you want.

[medeamajic]

Originally Posted by Reactor

We get it. We're just not in the business of providing art on demand. The original thread author was looking for information, so that's what we're providing. Unless he asks for credentials, or portfolio work, I know that I personally will not be providing any.

Information is great as long as it is acurate and you can back up your comments with proof. Why would you only post your work for a few elite people? You are saying if the original poster in an XSI thread asks to see examples you would provide them but not to others? Have it your way. I will start a new XSI thread.

[LoneGunman]

Originally Posted by Reactor

The art really has to be the winner in all of this. One of the best renders I've seen was done in Truespace 4, thanks to good lighting and great texture work. TS4 is nothing compared to either Carrara 5 or XSI, and yet, he managed an excellent piece of art. Keeping this in mind, any bit of software is perfect for the job (feature packed or not), if it helps create the art you want.

I agree, but tools do matter as well, if they slow you down, that is.

IMHO, it would be much better to channel fanboy attitudes energy on massive and organized complaints to DAZ. Those things DO work if 1000 users post in 1 day that they want some answers and fixes !

@Medeamajic:

Sad thing about life is: You always get exactly what you pay for, period. Does anybody really needs proof for that ?

Example:

Please, read this "problem solving initiative" form one of the Carrara5 "developers" in answer to my very serious issue/bug report :

http://www.daz3d.com/bugs/view.php?id=13309

If you cannot go there, for some reason, here is summary: I complained that soft shadows rendered on highest quality setting have banding issue and his suggestion is to try to create new object in my scene to avoid it, VERY, VERY LAME.

What this tells me? They DO NOT CARE. Nobody wants to rewrite part of the Ray Tracing engine in C5 becouse of one lousy complainer like me (if they do, I will be very, very impressed). They will leave it as it is and work on the features which will sell more copies of the next version of Carrara, I'm positive.

Now, comparing that kind of "care" to what has been integrated and invested into MentalRay alone, for example, is very biased in my opinion. I remember PeteExxtreme (forgive me Pete, if that was not you, sir) showed ONE single arhitectual interior render as an example, one time, to "prove" what can be done with Carrara. Fine.

Why there is no more of them ? Why every 5th render on CGtalk is interior and done in MetalRay? Why cannot I get more quality in Carrara in exchange for longer render times ? Becouse I paid $160 for it, that's why !

Mox is not a fanboy, only a user, who needs more power, quality and flexibility. And for more money he WILL get it. Go for it Mox

[KhrisK]

Originally Posted by LoneGunman

Why there is no more of them ? Why every 5th render on CGtalk is interior and done in MetalRay? Why cannot I get more quality in Carrara in exchange for longer render times ?

Why aren't you using XSI? You can get XSI for less than what it is normally advertised. Surely, it's not about the money. You do expect these kinds of questions, don't you?

[LoneGunman]

Actually, IT IS about money at the moment, I just cashed out $1800 on my new Hi-Def 42in LCD TV so i need some time to recover after that

[KhrisK]

LOL. Just makes me wonder why people are so upbeat recommending an app they're not even using or productive with. There's no doubt that XSI's animation tools are far superior than Carrara's. The evidences are all over the internet. But what's the point of having those extra tools when you're just going to throw them away because you don't know how to use them? Yeah, it's that old, lame reasoning again, ie, XSI is not for beginners, it's for pros. People contributing excellent images in this forum could hardly be called non-pros. So why aren't they grabbing XSI if it's that good? The reason is obvious, and it's just as legitimate to criticise its UI/workflow as Carrara's lack of hair or lacking in more advanced animation features. And it's just as valid to complain about it. Would you rather be productive using non-pro tools than using "pro" tools unproductively?

If the guy who started this thread is a pro, he wouldn't have been asking that question in the first place and knew exactly where to look for.

Have a nice day. More power to XSI. (Why do I feel I'm in the wrong forum?)

----------------------------
"Personally, I like the slightly stylized cartoony look. That's just my taste. Everything's getting so realistic nowadays. What's the fun if everyone thinks it's real and no one recognizes an artist or style." -- Markus Rothkranz

[LoneGunman]

Originally Posted by KhrisK

LOL. Just makes me wonder why people are so upbeat recommending an app they're not even using or productive with...

Why ? Eh, you know how it is, people like to be defensive, to fight and have arguments. It makes them feel good about what they use and have...

To me, it's a very simple thing. I'm not a fan, just an ordinary user.

But I like my renders to be smooth and perfect.

I guess that my search for that (almost) perfect renderer will never end. I do not care for many features in Carrara as well, I only want EXCELLENT renderer. Carrara did not deliver enough (to my needs, of course). No one to blame, like I said, you get what you pay for. Money was not waisted either, I learned how to do many new things, thanks to software and nice people in these forums.

If Carrara6 is not what I expect it to be (renderer fixed), I will silently move on, I will not stay as a fanboy till version 10 and wait for developers to get to it.

Will see, I have feeling that is highly unlikely, but DAZ might suprize us all

[KhrisK]

Carrara did not deliver enough (to my needs, of course). No one to blame, like I said, you get what you pay for.

I am not offended.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by KhrisK

If the guy who started this thread is a pro, he wouldn't have been asking that question in the first place and knew exactly where to look for.

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. I think I can be consider as a "pro", I even have a box of XSI Advance at 30 cms from my head.
Then, I will give you my opinion:
That's true that XSI is not at all for beginners or even intermediate users. But I think that users like MoxStudios, which spend a lot of time everyday on 3D, may feel restrict by some software limitations and then, to improve his skills and 3D possibilities, may have a look to a more "professionnal" software, then, XSI can be a very good choice.
But I don't say that Carrara which he already use is not a software for professionnal. Building a still render, with a simple scene is very easy and very fast. Setting up a scene with a simple skylight/HDRI is also simple. It also includes a lot of other powerful tools, to create landscape for example, that you won't find for XSI. But if you want to do complexe scene, with a lot of models inside, if you want to do advanced animation, with characters, complex behaviors, then, Carrara is not the best choice.
And honnestly, everybody here will be able to tell you that I'm one of the users who know the best Carrara ;)

For my own use, I still use Carrara, but more I do 3D, the less I use it. But it's for my needs and I still continue tell to a lot of users to buy it/use it ;)

[Jolran]

Yeah! Carrara is very useful! I still use Carrara. Its great for background matte, stills that is. Although rendering out amb occlusion in Z brush and layering in photoshop for colour is probably gonna takeover in workflow for me. But trees are good for export. Took one in XSI and did som poly reduction. In General I think Carrara accepts a large number of file formats so its good for conversions as well. So far Ive had more succsess with Carraras Displacements and GI than in XSI. Have to point out though Im a retard in XSIs rendering. Could imagine for a smaller project with timedemand, importing animation from XSI to carrara. Anyone done it with success? Think I posted an FBX thread long time ago. One way of fixing the
"animation hassels" in Carrara would be to accept XSI scenefiles

[Nichod]

Well said on all accounts Thomas.

[Nichod]

Its great for background matte, stills that is. Although rendering out amb occlusion in Z brush and layering in photoshop for colour is probably gonna takeover in workflow for me. But trees are good for export. Took one in XSI and did som poly reduction. In General I think Carrara accepts a large number of file formats so its good for conversions as well. So far Ive had more succsess with Carraras Displacements and GI than in XSI. Have to point out though Im a retard in XSIs rendering.

http://jankin.com/xsi_stuff/LMbAO/

Jolran. Check out this for ambient occlusion rendering in XSI:

[Jolran]

Hey Nichoid great link thanks!! That will be useful in the future.

The workflow I mentioned like this guy is doing(link below) is more of a 2D still matte type.
And the ambient occlusion is only a normal Z render. Not real occlusion.
One could export it to do displacements and occlusion in XSI, but then the whole idea of a speedy workflow gets lost I guess.
But if one export it to photoshop and colour it there with multiply blending mode(highlights and shadows), one can do a mountain and landscapes in no time. No UV etc.

http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=35764

[Thomas]

For your information, I opened an XSI subforum in the 2D and 3D from everywhere section ;)

[ronjurman]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. I think I can be consider as a "pro", I even have a box of XSI Advance at 30 cms from my head.
Then, I will give you my opinion:
That's true that XSI is not at all for beginners or even intermediate users. But I think that users like MoxStudios, which spend a lot of time everyday on 3D, may feel restrict by some software limitations and then, to improve his skills and 3D possibilities, may have a look to a more "professionnal" software, then, XSI can be a very good choice.
But I don't say that Carrara which he already use is not a software for professionnal. Building a still render, with a simple scene is very easy and very fast. Setting up a scene with a simple skylight/HDRI is also simple. It also includes a lot of other powerful tools, to create landscape for example, that you won't find for XSI. But if you want to do complexe scene, with a lot of models inside, if you want to do advanced animation, with characters, complex behaviors, then, Carrara is not the best choice.
And honnestly, everybody here will be able to tell you that I'm one of the users who know the best Carrara ;)

For my own use, I still use Carrara, but more I do 3D, the less I use it. But it's for my needs and I still continue tell to a lot of users to buy it/use it ;)

Completely agree.

-----------------

My response to those trying to make the decision:


Carrara is an excellent, and very capable 3D application, and wonderful for pulling together quick projects. It has some great tools (like landscaping and trees) that most pro apps either specialize in or avoid completely. Carrara has limitations (especially in animation), but many users will never need more than what's in there. Many users will never need or care to go elsewhere.

But it is not XSI. Carrara has a long way to go to match up with the flexibility and capabilities of XSI (or Maya, or Houdini), and if it ever did, it would probably be just as complex to use. Not that XSI is inaccessible to beginners. It actually is rather logically layed out. It is just 'big', and the learning curve can be lengthy to get really productive at it, like most any other pro app used by major studios doing movie productions. Indeed, if you want to work for a top studio, you may want to get into a pro 3D app like XSI (or Maya or Houdini) as early as you feel comfortable doing so. But if you get in too early, it may just scare you. You may want to hold off if you don't have that dedication or desire (unless money is not an issue).

XSI Foundation is an awesome bargain at less than $500. It has most of the main capabilities of XSI Advanced. When 3D app program pricing is discussed at CGTalk, XSI Foundation is immediately 'excluded' because its pricing is so off-the-map (nothing else even vaguely compares in power-for-the-buck). For some people, it's the wrong choice, for others willing to go farther, it's a great choice. But only you know if it's right for you. (Of course, if you can swing Carrara and XSI, why not have the best of both?)

rj

P.S. I agree on the lack of real 'upgrade' pricing of XSI Foundation, but the way I look at it, it's a whole lot cheaper (and more cost effective) to buy say every other version of Foundation (eg. 4, then 6), than to get on the very pricey upgrade plans of some of the other majors (eg. C4D is a nice, capable app with a lot going for it, but if you ever get into any of the modules or XL, it's upgrade pricing will send you to the poorhouse -).

[Reactor]

Couldn't have said it any better ronjurman... thanks for that. I might keep your responce on file for later discussions about XSI, as you've summed it all up nicely there.

[chris's_creation]

i am going to northlake comunity colledge here over in texas and i am going to be learning xsi but i own poser 5 and carrara 5 and both are great programs to work with the textures are prety good in posr 5 and althogh i dont have the money to get all of the plugins for carrara 5 i can still do some fairly decent things with carrara 5 so it is prety cool i would like to get carrara 6 thogh and hexagon 2

[mon_stdnt]

I was think of getting XSI for an alternative for Carrara, just to get the hair simulation and particle, that was way back when no news of Carrara was popping up.

I like Carrara for it's simplicity, but I heard that C4D its similar aswell. No? Plus it has hair, cloth simulation, particles and now bodypaint. Also the school that I'm going to this Fall has a CG course that uses C4D, so I don't know, maybe I'll get it for 3D stills.

And oh yeah, what is MOCCA?

[Wася]

MOCCA is a set of features - rigging, muscular system and clothing.
I thought about byuing C4D, but I found it's modeling features unusual, found Expresso not easy to use in complex tasks. And I'm not sure about C4D render. At least when you are using PyroCluster (it's a part of advanced render, and is responsible for smoke, fire et al), DOF is unavailable. So there may be more restrictions.

But I got XSI Advanced on eBay at only $400 (because it's v.5.0). Not activate it yet (preparing system for it), and don't even know, am I fooled or not. But already my spending on XSI books and video tutors exceeds my spendings on DAZ software & books & tutors. Heheh.

[Sketchy]

That's the whole point of buying "other" apps these days. It's not like you buy one and that's it. You have to spend another couple hundred bucks of learning materials just to figure how the ui works. Not to mention the time it takes to do all these things. Time is precious. In Carrara all you need is the pdf documentation that goes with it.

I can have the most expensive 3d app in the world and end up not producing anything from it. How many people (not big studios) who own any of these apps (Lightwave, XSI, Maya, Max) could even produce a 20 sec animation similar to one of Elephants Dream's? I just don't know of any to this day. Do you?