I planning to buy softimage XSI foundation

[Reactor]

Reactor, if I wanted to play 20 Questions, or talk to Eliza, I would.

Hey bud, you were the one picking on me! If you're going to pick, at least have an answer to the thing it is you're defending.

The rest is carrying it through. A little different from planning.

I thought we were talking about Markus pushing Carrara to it's limits, but... whatever.

He's an established traditional artist and a non-digital animator (for lack of a better term).

3D is a very different form of art from traditional non-digital. The workflow of a digital artist is completely different, and there's a good chance your friend doesn't realise how good XSI is in this area. Being good at modeling in Wings doesn't help someone understand good workflow when it comes to completing an animation, rendering and modeling project- something XSI (and any other 3D package) is designed for. If your friend thinks XSI is weak, tell him to argue it with the guys on the XSI mailing list.

If Carrara 6 happens to come out strong, XSI would soon be out of business. They better do something about its ridiculous interface/workflow. Yeah, that's how fragile the situation is for these vintage apps.

I'll be blunt, but I don't mean offense- you're naive as far as these things go. Do a little research before saying something else silly. As I said, I'm not trying to be offensive by saying that, but... you are way out of the ballpark with your comments, and one day you're going to look back and feel like a real dummy for saying them. That I can guarantee.

[Narration]

Reactor, I am beginning to wonder what planet you are writing from.

There seems no context but of software writing, and the argument tactics of small boys.

Please learn to listen -- and then persons may have an interest in listening to you.

[Reactor]

Sorry Narration, but I'm going to ignore what you've said because most of the time I can't understand you're writing (I still don't know what, "Chosen penetration into sets of well realized detail." means) and you still haven't explained about how Carrara has been pushed to its limits, considering you were picking on me for disagreeing with someone about it.

I think I'll take my leave from this thread anyway, because all I've seen is a bunch of confused beginners to 3D arguing about XSI for no rational reason, or trying to pick on me for speaking positively about it. Next time I won't bother to say anything at all, which I'm sure will please you to no end.

[KhrisK]

I think I'll take my leave from this thread anyway, because all I've seen is a bunch of confused beginners to 3D arguing about XSI for no rational reason, or trying to pick on me for speaking positively about it. Next time I won't bother to say anything at all, which I'm sure will please you to no end.

You should learn a bit of ABCs when joining forums. When I join a forum whether 3d, 2d, etc., my main purpose is not to sing hosannas and praises to the app as if it's God. I join to help (in my own little way) make the application better, point out obvious inconsistencies and suggest things like, as an example, adding an extra snapping feature as midway between two points in AutoCAD; dockable palettes and toolbars in Photoshop and Illustrator as well as more context-sensitivity just like CorelDraw's property bar. I have also suggested snapping options in the earliest versions of CorelDraw. It's only in version 12 that full snapping options were finally realized. These are just some tiny examples of the larger picture.

Point is, if I were in your shoes I'd probably devise a way to make it easy for beginners. For example, I read that XSI is highly customizable. If that is the case, then I'd probably suggest that the default should contain only the minimum feature or barest essentials to prevent the noob from being overwhelmed by the amount of information. The customized UI will not contain NURBS, CURVES, METABALLS, etc. It would only contain features on subdivision modeling. Bear in mind that subd modeling is the norm. Modo, Hex and Silo are all subd apps. They have no NURBS features. Something like that...

You sound like an unpaid XSI salesman.

[Narration]

Well, Reactor, if you really don't understand some of this, then ok. I think it will come to you.

'Chosen penetration' etc. means that Markus clearly identified what he wanted to shoot for in his imaginative view, and coaxed Carrara to do it for him. I suspect this was a highly interactive (try this, try another, etc.) process, and that he adjusted that vision as a carver does what he can get out of a given stone.

When I criticise your attitude, it is because you constantly denigrate - realising how you speak of 'pro-not pro', 'beginners', etc. is a simple way to recognise this.

Artists are not usually interested in this kind of talk, and it's a great thing here in these forums that appreciation is the mode.

This encourages what artists I've known love best: learning, and in its many facets and views, from which the creative each time comes.

Good fortune to you, Reactor.

Narration

[Nichod]

You should learn a bit of ABCs when joining forums. When I join a forum whether 3d, 2d, etc., my main purpose is not to sing hosannas and praises to the app as if it's God.

I see it more like he was implying that XSI is a good piece of software. Seeing as Thomas (owner of Polyloop) uses and recommends it, and that there is a whole industry that uses and accepts it, I'd say that he is correct. Not to mention its gaining in popularity all over the place. (foundation pricing being one of those reasons )

Point is, if I were in your shoes I'd probably devise a way to make it easy for beginners. For example, I read that XSI is highly customizable. If that is the case, then I'd probably suggest that the default should contain only the minimum feature or barest essentials to prevent the noob from being overwhelmed by the amount of information. The customized UI will not contain NURBS, CURVES, METABALLS, etc. It would only contain features on subdivision modeling. Bear in mind that subd modeling is the norm. Modo, Hex and Silo are all subd apps. They have no NURBS features. Something like that...

You sound like an unpaid XSI salesman.

Ok. XSI is NOT designed for beginners, its designed for the power users. I'm sorry but it really sounds like you feel it should be lessened and dumned down. All it requires is some time learning the application. Programs with lots of power and flexibility tend to require you to read the manual and even perhaps purchase some additional learning material.

I find it funny that you feel SUBD modeling is the norm. You forget that both Modo and Hex have spline modeling functionality. I assume you then think that spline modeling is the norm, since they both have it. And the fact that XSI has NURBS makes it a more flexible application, you can do simple mechanical modeling, or even quickly sculpt out a model with NURBS and then convert it to subds. Use NURBS a bit and you'll understand its advantages.

I would suggest if you are having difficulties with XSI and how it functions that you should perhaps start with Carrara basics. Its very simple and then you can work your way up. I'd be happy to help you with any problems you may have.

And please do not belittle people for recommending and praising a program. They do this because they like the software, and believe in its abilities. Disagree with them, thats understandable, but pointing fingers and calling people names is very childish and immature. Things we only tolerate so long at polyloop So lets all play nice and keep this thread on topic. I'm thinking we need an XSI forum here!

[Nichod]

Chuckle.. My friend could hardly be called a non-pro. He's an established traditional artist and a non-digital animator (for lack of a better term). I've been trying to convince him to open his own website and show his stuff on the net. He declines saying unscrupulous people might get ideas and shatter the uniqueness of his art. He was able to master Wings3d and he's on his way to becoming a Hexagon expert taking advantage of Hex 2's advanced organic features. Soon I'm going to see his models rendered and animated in Carrara.

Okay, assuming that there is this great divide between pros and non-pros. Aren't you guys doing any math at all? Fact is non-pros far outnumber pros. A third-party developer of a parametric solid modeling app once said that beginners are the lifeblood of any software company. Without them you'd soon be out of business. If Carrara 6 happens to come out strong, XSI would soon be out of business. They'd better do something about its ridiculous interface/workflow. Yeah, that's how fragile the situation is for these vintage apps

Vintage apps? You realize Carrara almost disappeared into nothingness? Not to mention the core of both XSI and Carrara are about the same age. Carrara is just getting some of the features XSI had 30 years ago. Please validate some of your reasoning as I'm curious how you've come by it. Some case studies would be appreciated.

[Nichod]

I'll be blunt, but I don't mean offense- you're naive as far as these things go. Do a little research before saying something else silly. As I said, I'm not trying to be offensive by saying that, but... you are way out of the ballpark with your comments, and one day you're going to look back and feel like a real dummy for saying them. That I can guarantee.

No name calling!

[KhrisK]

Ok. XSI is NOT designed for beginners, its designed for the power users.

What an encompassing statement. Well, there you go beginners. XSI is simply not for you.

I find it funny that you feel SUBD modeling is the norm. You forget that both Modo and Hex have spline modeling functionality. I assume you then think that spline modeling is the norm, since they both have it. And the fact that XSI has NURBS makes it a more flexible application, you can do simple mechanical modeling, or even quickly sculpt out a model with NURBS and then convert it to subds. Use NURBS a bit and you'll understand its advantages.

Modo's and Hex's splines are totally different from NURBS if I may remind you.They help facilitate polygonal modeling. Thus they are part of subd modeling.

And please do not belittle people for recommending and praising a program. They do this because they like the software, and believe in its abilities. Disagree with them, thats understandable, but pointing fingers and calling people names is very childish and immature.

Please point exactly where I called people names. On the other hand, Reactor couldn't control himself calling me naive and a dummy. That's okay. And if you think my posts don't make any sense, I'll leave this forum in peace.. BTW, I'm not a beginner. Dunno if that is important.

[Jolran]

I think this discussion is pointless.. And theres a lot of jumping on Reactor, I agree 100 % what he is saying. Marcus site is great and I think he has pushed Carrara a long way. Is it super duper stuff?? Well its not in Hollowood class. (But thats not his fault probably..) Not in par with example Star wars and Sky Captain...

[KhrisK]

Originally Posted by Jolran

Marcus site is great and I think he has pushed Carrara a long way. Is it super duper stuff?? Well its not in Hollowood class.

Not Hollywood class? I just saw James Bond in there and Angelina Jolie's behind... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Narration]

And of course Markus has been working in Hollywood for a long time, as his websites show.

First as an artist, and on well-known feature films.

The mistake through this entire thread, I think, is identifying software-in-use with becoming a 'big-time' winner.

If I am not mistaken, most of those software developments available, starting with ILM itself, have been done by the use of scripting, to add features, plugins, packages. Each time to solve a critical film production problem.

It's very interesting to consider what might happen if Carrara got an equivalent scripting to expose its data structures and engines.

This would be a pretty easy step, and could bring Eric Weinmuller and many more into co-production of a very powerful package.

Just like before.

A thought anyway, and kind regards to all.

Narration

[KhrisK]

It boggles my mind why some people are so offended when expressing negative opinions on an app as valid as workflow issues. I love Carrara. Yet you can say any nasty thing about it, for all I care.

I'm afraid this forum is beginning to become a DAZ forum.

[Narration]

Originally Posted by KhrisK

Not Hollywood class? I just saw James Bond in there and Angelina Jolie's behind... Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Where did you find that (the A. B.)?

I couldn't spot or locate with search, and I thought it might considerably slow down some of the 'can't rig or animate with Carrara talk'.

At least for the gentlemen's pause... ;)

Kind regards,
Narration

[Grendel]

On a completely different topic, have any of you seen this thread http://forums.polyloop.net/showthread.php?t=8892

It would be nice to see everyone focus a little more on creating 3d rather than animosity over personal choice/opinion in software. I'm sure Thomas would agree that the site would be better served by helping one another become better and promote a learning supportive environment.

I think the only thing Mox may have picked up from this thread is that some people favor XSI over others. If the conversation cannot be turned away from being confrontational we will have to moderate(Lock) the thread.

We all should be able to conduct ourselves respectfully.

[KhrisK]

Originally Posted by Narration

Where did you find that (the A. B.)?

I couldn't spot or locate with search, and I thought it might considerably slow down some of the 'can't rig or animate with Carrara talk'.

At least for the gentlemen's pause... ;)

Kind regards,
Narration

I've seen the animated one in the now extinct www.eovia.com. You'll see the pose in the homepage www.carrara3d.com, but not the animated one. Perhaps one of us should contact Markus about it by email. I'm not sure if he's going to respond to a nameless dude like me.

[Narration]

Originally Posted by KhrisK

I've seen the animated one in the now extinct www.eovia.com. You'll see the pose in the homepage www.carrara3d.com, but not the animated one.

Ah, that's what I thought. And that maybe he had some talk back from people there in Hollywood for that -- let's hope it lead to a job for him.

But actually, I found it: http://www.carrara3d.com/carrara_poser3.html -- and complete with video.

I think this video speaks for itself. Some of the other things on that page are interesting too.

And the interesting thing may be that it was a Poser model with BVH motion capture data that got the effect in Carrara -- another patching together.

How much more of that would scriptable Carrara give???

Thoughts, anyway, and now some dinner ---

Narration

[KhrisK]

Originally Posted by Narration

Ah, that's what I thought. And that maybe he had some talk back from people there in Hollywood for that -- let's hope it lead to a job for him.

But actually, I found it: http://www.carrara3d.com/carrara_poser3.html -- and complete with video.

I think this video speaks for itself. Some of the other things on that page are interesting too.

And the interesting thing may be that it was a Poser model with BVH motion capture data that got the effect in Carrara -- another patching together.

How much more of that would scriptable Carrara give???

At the end of the scene it says:
TEST ANIMATION
rendered with CARRARA
by Markus Rothkranz
Music by M2H
Poser model by Blackhearted

Now we know that Poser is in his toolset. In his cloth animation it says this:
"The cloth physics dynamics were calculated in Poser and then the animation was imported into Carrara. I just love the rendering look Carrara has--the lighting, the textures etc are so friendly!"

[Narration]

So maybe they are not just blowing smoke about wanting to 'make movies' at Daz. (a moment from the chat last week).

I hope that fully fixing and realizing Hexagon is part of their picture of very useful tools as well as gaining reputation on that.

[Nichod]

I agree with Grendel on locking the thread. Though I hate doing that. Lets get back to the original topic.

Im planig to buy softimage XSI foundation.

Is better that carrara pro, mabey, no ? Any one here have that 3d software I wanna be sure to make a good decision.

The answer is yes and possibly no. XSI offers more flexibility but at the price of difficulty.

For instance, in Carrara when you shade an object its generally simple and straight forward. You can drop a preset on an object. Simply add a value to reflection and change the coloring. Then you pretty much have chrome. Pop in a light and voila! Render. In XSI its not necessarily more complex to duplicate the process, but just more flexible. You can adjust how the reflection occurs in greater detail, adjust the way light is reflected, if you want blurry reflections you have more options on creating it, for instances you could use the built in SSS node to blur the reflections. Can't do that in Carrara. Its all about options and interexchange ability.

Carrara is limited in its flexibility. Interface is another big example of this. Say you want to have the texture editor in the vertex modeler, you can't. In XSI you can create a window at the bottom and have the node editor, and another window above it to animate, then a window to adjust specific settings, and then have a floating palette with various preset tools. Tools which you created yourself with simple short scripts.

It depends on what you WANT to do. If you want to create simple still renders. I'd say that Carrara 5 Pro is the perfect option. If you wish to animate. Then I'd definetly recommend XSI as it offers a much more flexible toolset for film production.