I planning to buy softimage XSI foundation - Page 4 - Polyloop

JakalDesign · 28th August 2006, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhrisK

These types of posts are precisely the reason why XSI creators have no real motivation to improve the workflow. My friend bought XSI because of these posts. He hasn't touched it in months and now he's thinking of selling it. If you guys would start screaming invectives and profanities how XSI's workflow stinks and needs improvement, things will probably begin to show some ripples. The way I look at it, the future of this app is bleak, as the other gentleman here wrote.

I am sorry Khrisk, but I can't disagree with you more on this. I have been using XSI since version 4 and currently own version 5.11. The overall improvments between the versions is amazing. I started in 3D 8 years ago with 3DS Max version 3 and ended my run with max at version 6 when I switched to XSI version 4. I couldnt be happier with XSI and the workflow has greatly improved my output of speed and quality. As for saying the future is bleak... that is a rediculas statement. Softimage is doing better than ever and is improving all the time. That would be like saying Maya is dying out. Its just not going to happen.

Reactor · 28th August 2006, 16:30

Sorry KhrisK, can you help me understand the point of your post a little better? I'm not sure if I understand what you've written. Why is XSI future bleak according to you?

Quote:

These types of posts are precisely the reason why XSI creators have no real motivation to improve the workflow.

And you know what the developers of XSI are thinking... how exactly?

EDIT: I think JakalDesign said what I wanted to.

JakalDesign · 28th August 2006, 16:33

Poor moxstudios, he just wanted some opinions on XSI and this thread has turned into a software bashing contest.

KhrisK · 28th August 2006, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakalDesign

Poor moxstudios, he just wanted some opinions on XSI and this thread has turned into a software bashing contest.

That's your opinion, bashing. If you think about it, that's what triggers change for the better. Better = more supporters >> more improvements.

Jolran · 28th August 2006, 18:19

So your friend Khris, thought that just because he bought a proffesional software he would become proffesional overnight, hein?
The thing about 3D is that it is d"#¤mn difficult to learn! And software with more options and possibilities is always harder to learn. No matter workflow.
Modeling some stuff and putting a procedual on it and render it with a preset GI is the easy part. Optimisation for animation is the hard part. You cant just
model it like you want, deformation is critical (rigging and weighting), have to be able to setup renderpasses to speed up rendering. And if youre working on team basis, there must be a way of sharing assets easy. XSI's got all those features. Carrara has not. No matter opinion, its a fact.
Dont have to be an expert int both programs just look at the feature lists..

So you think XSI is gonna disapear because its so difficult?? Try Maya..

Nichod · 28th August 2006, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhrisK
These types of posts are precisely the reason why XSI creators have no real motivation to improve the workflow. My friend bought XSI because of these posts. He hasn't touched it in months and now he's thinking of selling it. If you guys would start screaming invectives and profanities how XSI's workflow stinks and needs improvement, things will probably begin to show some ripples. The way I look at it, the future of this app is bleak, as the other gentleman here wrote.

Yeah I don't agree with that post either. Try using MAX or MAYA. The workflow difference will be immediately apparent. Maya for instance is limited by what it can do out of the box. I mean it can do pretty much anything, but you need to either script it with mel script or manipulate its odd workflow to get the task done. MAX has a lot of functionality but its crammed in one of the worst GUI's imaginable, not to mention most of the functionality is actually some plugin that is poorly intergrated and buggy.

I appreciate the power of the other "professional-grade" software, but I see XSI as having the most clean cut workflow and abilities. And its hardly on its way out, its rising in popularity. If any of the applications is on its way out I'd point at Lightwave.

Nichod · 28th August 2006, 19:37

Quote:

That's your opinion, bashing. If you think about it, that's what triggers change for the better. Better = more supporters >> more improvements.

Please refrain from outright "bashing" of software here.

tonytrout · 28th August 2006, 21:14

Mox I guess xsi foundation is most accessible price wise of the high end apps and I guess it depends what is going to be usefull to you. If you are wanting to do hair and cloth then eventually you will need to shell out big bucks. I have no idea which of these big softs are best, I not own any, but what ever you buy is big investment in training and time. Maybe trial the learning editions to see if they suit what you want to do. If you want to make 'lord of the rings' or 'ice age' might require different capabilities, and it wont stop there. You need compositing and camera tracking software etc etc, whole studio, 50 animators and render farm

If it is to make VFX, advertising or 3dstills or get work in the industry maybe something different again, so maybe a clear vision of your endgame is paramount before shelling out the dollari.

Not much help I know, I am wrestling with this myself at moment, I just beginner. Here are some of the things I thinking about -- Have not mastered C5 yet, but no confidence in daz intentions for C6. Render quality. Can I learn and drive software myself without serious programming skills. User base ( I think 70% maya and 3ds?) Does software have industry proven track record and future. Software tools and feature set. Where do I want to be in 5 years time. Would learning this software give me marketable skills. What advances will there be in next 5 years which mean I not have to learn to do this complicated stuff

Price. Personally I think XSI foundation is next step for me for pricewise but I feel maya beckening seductively longterm, and maybe its wiser and cheaper longterm to jump into that.

I take on board what professionals say here sometimes too, 'whatever tool gets the job done'

Nichod · 28th August 2006, 22:58

Be wary of the Maya trap. Once you own it, its for life. You can't sell or trade it. Licenses are non-transferable other then in extreme cases.

Sketchy · 28th August 2006, 23:20

Quote:

tonytryout wrote:
Not much help I know, I am wrestling with this myself at the moment, I'm just a beginner. Here are some of the things I'm thinking about -- Have not mastered C5 yet, but no confidence in DAZ intentions for C6...

My expectations for C6 are not that huge. If those expectations were not met, then I'd be willing to move on and look for other apps. If they are met, then it's time to push C6 to the limits just like what this guy did:

http://www.carrara3d.com/index.html

I don't have to see myself working for some company out there, I'm more inclined in freelance work.

medeamajic · 29th August 2006, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolran

deformation is critical (rigging and weighting), have to be able to setup renderpasses to speed up rendering. And if youre working on team basis, there must be a way of sharing assets easy. XSI's got all those features. Carrara has not. No matter opinion, its a fact.
Dont have to be an expert int both programs just look at the feature lists..

..

I agree you do not have to be an expert of the program to read a feature list but the feature list could be 100% jive. I would suggest being proficient in any progam that you claim is much better than another in order to have first hand knowledge and show proof. You may find the rigging and modeling of Modo or XSI to hard and difficult to use. If that is the case then a feature list 1233323 miles long would do you no good.

I could not get the Hash Animation Master to do anything but others have. This is not because the porgam is good or bad but because some people's minds adapt to AM. On the other hand Thomas can rig figures in Carrara very good while others can not. I think Thomas's way of rigging is a lot like how the Poser native importer rigs the figures in Carrara. My Daz figures have great IK and the feet do stick to the floor. I was impresed with how Carrara handled the rigging. I admit the animation previews are way to slow compared to Poser when using Daz/Poser models. This paragraph is not based off of reading form the Evoia website but from actually trying the software for myself. So yes you can imprt Daz/Poser figures and animate them with out the need for Poser but the animation previews are very very slow compared to Poser. Eovia forgot to mention that on their webstie.

It is OK for a website to claim they have advanced IK and rigging but I think it is wrong for anyone to post this info as fact unless they have used the software first hand. Website info does not have to be 100% true.

Reactor · 29th August 2006, 13:20

Quote:

If they are met, then it's time to push C6 to the limits just like what this guy did: http://www.carrara3d.com/index.html

I know people like this guy, but I'd hardly say he's pushed Carrara to its limits.

Narration · 29th August 2006, 14:14

Reactor, there you go again. This time it's a person you woulda, coulda been a contender with. This is why you attract replies suggesting you show your stuff.

I'm not sure, but isn't Markus the person who did that short animation of Angelina Jolie? I would certainly call that pushing 'some limits' ;).

His website is certainly interesting to look at, and in cases with a closer eye (the water in the ship films as an example).

Some people call you Creator - you aren't ex-MatCreator, are you? Whether or not, how about letting go the pose. There'll be less air to let out, and you might have a much more interesting time.

Kind regards,
Narration

Reactor · 29th August 2006, 14:41

Quote:

Some people call you Creator - you aren't ex-MatCreator, are you?

Sorry no... is this another guy from this forum?

I wasn't having a go at Markus... some of his art looks fantastic, but I aside from a few interesting ideas on how Carrara can be used, he's not doing anything which is that mind blowing.

Quote:

Whether or not, how about letting go the pose. There'll be less air to let out, and you might have a much more interesting time.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here.

Narration · 29th August 2006, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reactor

I wasn't having a go at Markus... some of his art looks fantastic, but I aside from a few interesting ideas on how Carrara can be used, he's not doing anything which is that mind blowing.

Master Po: Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Young Caine: I hear the water. I hear the birds.
Master Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?
Young Caine: No.
Master Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which at your feet?
(Caine opens his eyes and sees a grasshopper at his feet)
Young Caine: Old Man, how is it that you hear these things?
Master Po: Young Man, how is it that you do not?

Attribution, if needed, is to the entry sequence to Kung Fu.

Reactor · 29th August 2006, 15:27

Narration, what is it you find so inspirational on Markus' website? Help me understand which aspects are truly pushing Carrara to its limits.

Narration · 29th August 2006, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reactor

Narration, what is it you find so inspirational on Markus' website? Help me understand which aspects are truly pushing Carrara to its limits.

Scale. Rate.

Chosen penetration into sets of well realized detail.

Judged completeness of doing, for each concept.

Even for someone of entirely different aesthetics or area of endeavour, I think it is a good example of 'walking the walk'.

Reactor · 29th August 2006, 16:02

Yes, I agree with you that it's a good example of planning and getting things done. But, how are any of those things pushing Carrara to its limits?

Narration · 29th August 2006, 16:14

Reactor, if I wanted to play 20 Questions, or talk to Eliza, I would.

The concept I think you are missing among all the 'my software (and critical judgement) better than yours' is: Imagination.

The rest is carrying it through. A little different from planning.

Thank you for your time.

KhrisK · 29th August 2006, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolran

So your friend Khris, thought that just because he bought a proffesional software he would become proffesional overnight, hein?
The thing about 3D is that it is d"#¤mn difficult to learn! And software with more options and possibilities is always harder to learn. No matter workflow.

Chuckle.. My friend could hardly be called a non-pro. He's an established traditional artist and a non-digital animator (for lack of a better term). I've been trying to convince him to open his own website and show his stuff on the net. He declines saying unscrupulous people might get ideas and shatter the uniqueness of his art. He was able to master Wings3d and he's on his way to becoming a Hexagon expert taking advantage of Hex 2's advanced organic features. Soon I'm going to see his models rendered and animated in Carrara.

Okay, assuming that there is this great divide between pros and non-pros. Aren't you guys doing any math at all? Fact is non-pros far outnumber pros. A third-party developer of a parametric solid modeling app once said that beginners are the lifeblood of any software company. Without them you'd soon be out of business. If Carrara 6 happens to come out strong, XSI would soon be out of business. They'd better do something about its ridiculous interface/workflow. Yeah, that's how fragile the situation is for these vintage apps.

28th August 2006, 22:58	#69 (permalink)
Nichod Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 611 My Photos: (0) Images: 1	Be wary of the Maya trap. Once you own it, its for life. You can't sell or trade it. Licenses are non-transferable other then in extreme cases. __________________ Email Me. Visit my blog! Get hundreds of shader presets! Get Art of Shaders! And a preview for Art of Skin is now available. AMD Turion(TM) 64 ML-40 (2.2GHz/1MB L2 Cache) 1280 MB DDR 333mHz RAM 128MB ATI RADEON(R) XPRESS 200M w/Hypermemory(TM) 60 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive DVD+/-RW/R & CD-RW Combo w/Double Layer Support 15.4" WXGA BrightView Widescreen (1280x800) I use.

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28th August 2006, 16:33	#63 (permalink)
JakalDesign Extrusion Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Idaho Falls, ID Posts: 166 My Photos: (0)	Poor moxstudios, he just wanted some opinions on XSI and this thread has turned into a software bashing contest.

28th August 2006, 18:19	#65 (permalink)
Jolran NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 118 My Photos: (0)	So your friend Khris, thought that just because he bought a proffesional software he would become proffesional overnight, hein? The thing about 3D is that it is d"#¤mn difficult to learn! And software with more options and possibilities is always harder to learn. No matter workflow. Modeling some stuff and putting a procedual on it and render it with a preset GI is the easy part. Optimisation for animation is the hard part. You cant just model it like you want, deformation is critical (rigging and weighting), have to be able to setup renderpasses to speed up rendering. And if youre working on team basis, there must be a way of sharing assets easy. XSI's got all those features. Carrara has not. No matter opinion, its a fact. Dont have to be an expert int both programs just look at the feature lists.. So you think XSI is gonna disapear because its so difficult?? Try Maya..

28th August 2006, 21:14	#68 (permalink)
tonytrout Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Aotearoa Land of the long white cloud. Posts: 576 My Photos: (3)	Mox I guess xsi foundation is most accessible price wise of the high end apps and I guess it depends what is going to be usefull to you. If you are wanting to do hair and cloth then eventually you will need to shell out big bucks. I have no idea which of these big softs are best, I not own any, but what ever you buy is big investment in training and time. Maybe trial the learning editions to see if they suit what you want to do. If you want to make 'lord of the rings' or 'ice age' might require different capabilities, and it wont stop there. You need compositing and camera tracking software etc etc, whole studio, 50 animators and render farm If it is to make VFX, advertising or 3dstills or get work in the industry maybe something different again, so maybe a clear vision of your endgame is paramount before shelling out the dollari. Not much help I know, I am wrestling with this myself at moment, I just beginner. Here are some of the things I thinking about -- Have not mastered C5 yet, but no confidence in daz intentions for C6. Render quality. Can I learn and drive software myself without serious programming skills. User base ( I think 70% maya and 3ds?) Does software have industry proven track record and future. Software tools and feature set. Where do I want to be in 5 years time. Would learning this software give me marketable skills. What advances will there be in next 5 years which mean I not have to learn to do this complicated stuff Price. Personally I think XSI foundation is next step for me for pricewise but I feel maya beckening seductively longterm, and maybe its wiser and cheaper longterm to jump into that. I take on board what professionals say here sometimes too, 'whatever tool gets the job done'

29th August 2006, 14:14	#73 (permalink)
Narration citoyen Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: north of alps Posts: 226 My Photos: (0)	Reactor, there you go again. This time it's a person you woulda, coulda been a contender with. This is why you attract replies suggesting you show your stuff. I'm not sure, but isn't Markus the person who did that short animation of Angelina Jolie? I would certainly call that pushing 'some limits' ;). His website is certainly interesting to look at, and in cases with a closer eye (the water in the ship films as an example). Some people call you Creator - you aren't ex-MatCreator, are you? Whether or not, how about letting go the pose. There'll be less air to let out, and you might have a much more interesting time. Kind regards, Narration

29th August 2006, 15:27	#76 (permalink)
Reactor NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 117 My Photos: (0)	Narration, what is it you find so inspirational on Markus' website? Help me understand which aspects are truly pushing Carrara to its limits.

29th August 2006, 16:02	#78 (permalink)
Reactor NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 117 My Photos: (0)	Yes, I agree with you that it's a good example of planning and getting things done. But, how are any of those things pushing Carrara to its limits?

29th August 2006, 16:14	#79 (permalink)
Narration citoyen Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: north of alps Posts: 226 My Photos: (0)	Reactor, if I wanted to play 20 Questions, or talk to Eliza, I would. The concept I think you are missing among all the 'my software (and critical judgement) better than yours' is: Imagination. The rest is carrying it through. A little different from planning. Thank you for your time.