newbie -- Help with learning Shade - Polyloop

cartoonMike · 2nd September 2006, 19:01

Hi everyone,

Just got shade 8.5 pro for the mac and am trying to learn it. I've used Carrara, Animation:Master and other 3D programs, but as with most 3D programs, the interface and user interaction is different.

I've worked though the Tutorial manual and am reading the Users Guide, but am wondering if any experienced users of Shade could give/share any pointers and tips about how they first learned shade.

thanks very much in advance!

mike

juanmanuel · 2nd September 2006, 21:24

I never finished the tutorials in the manual. I just tried to do stuff and things got more logical the more I used it.

As a matter of fact when I started with Shade there was practically no information on how to use shade outside the instruction manuals. Some tutorials by Noel Fields, and that was it.

Now there are lots more people who have worked with Shade, so there is more collective knowledge.

Anyway, ask away if you have doubts, are stuck, etc.

You could also check some tutorials I made some time ago in www.angelfire.com/linux/juanm/

I have not updated the aesthetics to that page since I made it. But it does the job...

Thomas · 3rd September 2006, 21:20

I'll try to post in a months the first tutorials here ;)
But as you CartoonMike, I'm in the learning steps too ;)

cartoonMike · 4th September 2006, 18:19

Thanks for the links and encouragement, Juan! I think I'm at that stage of learning that I know what the program can do, but just can't "think in the program" enought to do things. More practice, then!

Looking forward to your tutorials, Thomas. If they're anything like the ones you did for Hex and Carrara, they will be worth the wait!

Now I'm going to try to model a robot design of mine...

thanks again,

mike

juanmanuel · 4th September 2006, 18:48

Why don't you post your progress as a WIP? That way Thomas, I, and all the rest can help you if you get stuck

cartoonMike · 4th September 2006, 20:12

Okay, great idea!

I'll just start up a thread in the WIP section and call it "[shade 8] Robutler WIP" later on today.

mike

becibear · 30th September 2006, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by juanmanuel

I never finished the tutorials in the manual. I just tried to do stuff and things got more logical the more I used it.

Funnily enough, I was exactly the same with Shade 7 Designer LE. There are only so many tables and vases you can make before you decide that maybe there's something more to the program.

After a while I ended up making clothes for Poser and imho I've made some really nice stuff, but the problem is that when I rig them in P6 they end up tearing apart.

Has anybody got any clue if this is an error I'm making in Shade or Poser?

Thanks for any help!

Rebecca x

juanmanuel · 5th October 2006, 01:46

You are trying to do conforming clothing?
Poser can be quite picky on conforming clothing, make sure your clothes are divided into regions that more or less mimick the ones on the underlying body. I mostly do dynamic clothing because of this, and because it just looks more real.

becibear · 5th October 2006, 14:40

Yes I am trying to make conforming clothes. I tend to use the auto group function in P6, which I think is the main problem, but even if I set the groups myself it still tends to happen. I thin I'll take your advice and try dynamic - even though it means learning something completely new! I haven't really delved into the world of dynamics yet, as it all seemed a bit confusing when I first bought Poser. Then again, it all adds to experience, so I'm off to learn...

Rebecca x

juanmanuel · 5th October 2006, 15:36

Trust me, dynamic clothing saves you lots of headaches, you just have to get used to pose starting from the zero pose, and animate your way to the final pose you need. The result is not immediate as conforming clothes, but the shirts and pants don't look inflated as with conforming clothes.
I do conform my shoes and sandals, though.

jones2000u · 24th October 2006, 19:07

from becibear:
"After a while I ended up making clothes for Poser and imho I've made some really nice stuff, but the problem is that when I rig them in P6 they end up tearing apart."

Not really part of this thread, but could you let me know if you solved that problem? I'm doing the same thing myself, but I haven't got to the point where I want to import to P6 yet!

juanmanuel · 26th October 2006, 18:09

If you want to do conforming clothing, it helps that the "seams" between the part more or less resemble the underlying "master" seams. While autogrouping does a nice job, when the seams differ radically, it starts making "staircase" seams, which predictably, yield undesirable results. Best solution is experimentation, I haven't found a golden rule for conforming clothing.

becibear · 27th October 2006, 14:48

Ditto what juanmanuel said! It seems a long, drawn out process mimicing the underlying areas, and the autogroup function seems to often have the adverse effect to what you'd want, but sticking to it and manually adding the groups yourself is worth it in the long run. Even if you use the stripped-down cr2 of the poser person you are making the clothes for, the autogroup puts the seams of the groups in the wrong places. I've actually started importing the clothes and the character (usually Aiko or Victoria) into Amapi 3D (free somewhere around here...

), and manually adding the groups in there. It's nice having a range of 3D modeling programs as different ones are better for different stages of the process. Shade is still the best I've found for modeling the clothes though!

juanmanuel · 27th October 2006, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by becibear

Shade is still the best I've found for modeling the clothes though!

I agree, Shade tends to lend itself into making some pretty nice clothing.

Black Silver · 19th February 2007, 03:17

I'm pretty new at Shade -- 3D modeling at all, for that matter -- and I'm wondering if you would all agree that Shade is the tool to use?

I'm creating leather pouches and humidors.. and all the product prototypes I've seen seem to be coming from a program like Shade. So, I thought I'd try it.

Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks to all, in advance, for your help!

Lee

2nd September 2006, 19:01	#1 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	newbie -- Help with learning Shade Hi everyone, Just got shade 8.5 pro for the mac and am trying to learn it. I've used Carrara, Animation:Master and other 3D programs, but as with most 3D programs, the interface and user interaction is different. I've worked though the Tutorial manual and am reading the Users Guide, but am wondering if any experienced users of Shade could give/share any pointers and tips about how they first learned shade. thanks very much in advance! mike

2nd September 2006, 21:24	#2 (permalink)
juanmanuel Madly in love Join Date: May 2006 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 241	I never finished the tutorials in the manual. I just tried to do stuff and things got more logical the more I used it. As a matter of fact when I started with Shade there was practically no information on how to use shade outside the instruction manuals. Some tutorials by Noel Fields, and that was it. Now there are lots more people who have worked with Shade, so there is more collective knowledge. Anyway, ask away if you have doubts, are stuck, etc. You could also check some tutorials I made some time ago in www.angelfire.com/linux/juanm/ I have not updated the aesthetics to that page since I made it. But it does the job... __________________ passionately alive This is my blog This is my portfolio

3rd September 2006, 21:20	#3 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,319	I'll try to post in a months the first tutorials here ;) But as you CartoonMike, I'm in the learning steps too ;) __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

4th September 2006, 18:48	#5 (permalink)
juanmanuel Madly in love Join Date: May 2006 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 241	Why don't you post your progress as a WIP? That way Thomas, I, and all the rest can help you if you get stuck __________________ passionately alive This is my blog This is my portfolio

5th October 2006, 01:46	#8 (permalink)
juanmanuel Madly in love Join Date: May 2006 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 241	You are trying to do conforming clothing? Poser can be quite picky on conforming clothing, make sure your clothes are divided into regions that more or less mimick the ones on the underlying body. I mostly do dynamic clothing because of this, and because it just looks more real. __________________ passionately alive This is my blog This is my portfolio

4th September 2006, 18:19	#4 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Thanks for the links and encouragement, Juan! I think I'm at that stage of learning that I know what the program can do, but just can't "think in the program" enought to do things. More practice, then! Looking forward to your tutorials, Thomas. If they're anything like the ones you did for Hex and Carrara, they will be worth the wait! Now I'm going to try to model a robot design of mine... thanks again, mike

4th September 2006, 20:12	#6 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Okay, great idea! I'll just start up a thread in the WIP section and call it "[shade 8] Robutler WIP" later on today. mike

5th October 2006, 14:40	#9 (permalink)
becibear Vertex Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3	Yes I am trying to make conforming clothes. I tend to use the auto group function in P6, which I think is the main problem, but even if I set the groups myself it still tends to happen. I thin I'll take your advice and try dynamic - even though it means learning something completely new! I haven't really delved into the world of dynamics yet, as it all seemed a bit confusing when I first bought Poser. Then again, it all adds to experience, so I'm off to learn... Rebecca x

5th October 2006, 15:36	#10 (permalink)
juanmanuel Madly in love Join Date: May 2006 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 241	Trust me, dynamic clothing saves you lots of headaches, you just have to get used to pose starting from the zero pose, and animate your way to the final pose you need. The result is not immediate as conforming clothes, but the shirts and pants don't look inflated as with conforming clothes. I do conform my shoes and sandals, though. __________________ passionately alive This is my blog This is my portfolio

24th October 2006, 19:07	#11 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	from becibear: "After a while I ended up making clothes for Poser and imho I've made some really nice stuff, but the problem is that when I rig them in P6 they end up tearing apart." Not really part of this thread, but could you let me know if you solved that problem? I'm doing the same thing myself, but I haven't got to the point where I want to import to P6 yet!

26th October 2006, 18:09	#12 (permalink)
juanmanuel Madly in love Join Date: May 2006 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 241	If you want to do conforming clothing, it helps that the "seams" between the part more or less resemble the underlying "master" seams. While autogrouping does a nice job, when the seams differ radically, it starts making "staircase" seams, which predictably, yield undesirable results. Best solution is experimentation, I haven't found a golden rule for conforming clothing. __________________ passionately alive This is my blog This is my portfolio

27th October 2006, 14:48	#13 (permalink)
becibear Vertex Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3	Ditto what juanmanuel said! It seems a long, drawn out process mimicing the underlying areas, and the autogroup function seems to often have the adverse effect to what you'd want, but sticking to it and manually adding the groups yourself is worth it in the long run. Even if you use the stripped-down cr2 of the poser person you are making the clothes for, the autogroup puts the seams of the groups in the wrong places. I've actually started importing the clothes and the character (usually Aiko or Victoria) into Amapi 3D (free somewhere around here... ), and manually adding the groups in there. It's nice having a range of 3D modeling programs as different ones are better for different stages of the process. Shade is still the best I've found for modeling the clothes though!

19th February 2007, 03:17	#15 (permalink)
Black Silver Vertex Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4	Creating Leather Pouches I'm pretty new at Shade -- 3D modeling at all, for that matter -- and I'm wondering if you would all agree that Shade is the tool to use? I'm creating leather pouches and humidors.. and all the product prototypes I've seen seem to be coming from a program like Shade. So, I thought I'd try it. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks to all, in advance, for your help! Lee

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