Is Shade what I need?

[Black Silver]

I'm trying to develop some leather pouch type products.. and I've been told that Shade is what I need for this. Does anyone have suggestions on this or maybe opinions on a different software package that might be better?

Thanks, in advance, for your help...

[juanmanuel]

Forgive my English, but what is a leather pouch? A bag?
Shade can model some pretty nice things thanks to it's curved surfaces, and it could help you with what you are trying to do.
Just remember that Shade is not really a program for design prototyping but for design visualization. In this case maybe Amapi would be more suitable for the job.
If you need to see how it can look when produced (as in photo real), Shade can help you alright

[Black Silver]

Since I am new to this 3D modeling world, you may be right. I have not seen/tried Amapi. What is interesting is that the manufacturers that I deal with send me prototype images that appear to be very realistic. I'm assuming that what they are doing is working with a 3D modeling program that is designed specifically to create that type of product line.

And yes.. they are leather bags for various purposes. Organizers, etc.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Take care...

[bwtr]

Carrara5 would be my first choice.

[Black Silver]

Hmm.. does look good. Too bad there is no trial version. Hard to tell if it's what I need without giving it a shot.

Thanks tho..

[Nate Owens]

http://www.rhino3d.com/
trial version available
Flamingo for rendering

[bwtr]

Carrara trial and demo versions were available. DAZ is crazy not to have continued. If you hunt around, older 3D magazine CDs etc, you should find copies. Carrara Basics is very cheap but a less than perfect introduction to the great qualities of Carrara5 and 5Pro.

[Ascania]

Carrara trials are available in the Support Downloads on the DAZ site

[juanmanuel]

And right here in Polyloop you can find Amapi6 free for download. Not the most up to date version (current is 7.5), but it gives you a good idea what Amapi is all about. And it is free.
As to the rendering side of things, in my opinion, Carrara, Shade, Modo, Lightwave, Blender, etc etc... it all comes down to what you feel most confortable with, and how big is your wallet!

[transient]

Isn't this a shade forum?

Shade Demo.

There are free versions of Shade 7LE in magazines and on the net floating around as well. Maybe if you ask e-frontier nicely they'll send you a copy.

I bought Shade 7 Pro for 100 bucks off ebay from e-frontier and haven't looked back.

I personally wouldn't waste my time with Carrara, however I have seen some nice renders done with it, and it's comparatively easy to learn. It really depends on what you want from your software.

Shade's Callisto renderer kicks ass and is extremely quick for the quality it produces.

[juanmanuel]

I use Shade on an almost daily basis, so I can vouch for it as to its being useful and capable.

Isn't this a shade forum?

Indeed it is, I was just trying to be helpful and objective.

With that philosophy in mind, let me tell you Shade is a wonderful program, but it is a program that has its own way of doing things. Some people find it very easy to pick up (like I did), and others just cannot understand the way it works.

So anyway, Black Silver, if you download and give Shade a try, and get stuck (I have yet to see a program that people dont get stuck, sooner or later, everybody gets stuck!), ask away, someone surely has been through whatever got you stuck, and has an easy solution. And if it is a new kind of stuck, well, everybody can help and find the solution!

[transient]

Indeed it is, I was just trying to be helpful and objective.

Fair enough. It looks like Amapi and Shade are going to be sister apps in the near future in any case.

[bwtr]

Transient, the original post asked for information on different software alternatives. I obliged.

[Likos]

I like shade. It was super easy to learn. (The last app I tried learning was Ray Dream Studio waaaaay back) I picked up Shade within a couple hours. The only drawback is that there is little info on the app so allot of the advanced features don't get the credit/exposure they deserve. Basically I would recommend Shade. Even more so if you have little/no experience with 3D. It seems that the people with the most experience have the most difficulty with it. (Especially if you have a solid background with subdivision modeling) I would like to learn Blender, It seems complex but man the tool set is remarkable. And its Open Source! (If I had the time to learn that would be the app I would spend some time on) www.blender.org

[transient]

That's an interesting point of view. Shade's unusual approach initially bothered me, but I had a fair bit of 3d experience beforehand. Maybe e-frontier should try to target new users a bit more.

Ironically, Blender has the same kind of criticisms of it's interface, but the faithfull love it.

Blender's becoming a huge competitor. I use it and Shade pretty much equally, depending on what I'm doing. Unfortunately, I think Blender's rise is bad news for middle-tier 3d apps like Carrara and Shade in the long run, but I may be wrong.

[Likos]

Actually I see Blender as a complement to the industry. (I do understand your point though - when 3D stops becoming fiscally viable they will stop coding for it.)

In the long run I think Blender will be great for 3D. As the toolset is refined and grows larger it will force the low-middle end to up the ante or drop the price. Basically it will keep the industry honest.

Case in point: Poser.
Poser had no real consumer level competition. I was allowed to stagnate for years and still maintained its market share. If there was another app in the same price range as Poser, with similar functionality, that continued to improve while Poser stagnated, Poser would be dead. (My English teacher would shoot me after that sentence. So it stays!)

I don't count Daz studio because it came to the game just a tad late. If they had come to the table during the P4 years it would have been a real contender.

One thing I think is interesting is that the codebase for Blender is free. Shade is a modular program. You can add Blenders functionality to Shade (or Poser for that matter) as a plugin. You would be required to release the code for the plugin but not the main app. Imagine Shade with Blenders polygon tools.

I would love to see nurbs in Shade but that may be on the horizon. (Amapi)

[juanmanuel]

Shade9 is around the corner, promising lots of goodies. But I think THE version of Shade to look out for will be version10, with all the synergy between Shade-Poser-Amapi in full swing.
What I like most about Shade is that it gives predictable results. No mysterious going ons. But I don't think I would use it on its own. I personally use a combination of Shade, Poser, Amapi, Progecad (an Autocad clone, and MUCH CHEAPER!), Silo, and unwrap3d. I used to Hexagon quite a bit too, but Silo2 has mostly fulfilled my boxmodelling needs, and Hexagon's unfamous bugs just bug me (pun intended).

So returning to the topic. Download all the demos of all the said programs (and others you might find on the way). Test them out, and go for the one (or ones) you feel most confortable with.

[transient]

I found the Shade 9 feature list to be a bit nebulous because of the translation issue. It would be nice if e-frontier would release an english version of what's coming, but I guess they'll get around to it eventually.

If Shade could handle displacement mapping on polygonal meshes, it wouldn't really need more synergy with most modelling apps. Nurbs support doesn't really interest me too much, but then I guess it depends on e-frontier's target audience. I can easily see room for Shade becoming an affordable option for industrial designers who need quality renders.

If someone was going to bring Blender functionality into Shade (a tantalising prospect), I'd personally prefer to see things like the fluid system being renderable in Shade, but the modelling tools would be nice.

[Wася]

I should disagree Carrara is a waste of time - it depends on your needs. As I said before in another thread I find Shade rendering results to be more realistic, and Carrara's (and, by the way, Cinema4D) - more artifical. It's not bad, it's just a question of your goal.

Shade offers you only construct surfaces from Bezier curves and translate them (or not to) to polymeshes. Or to build meshes other ways (in MagicalSketch, for example). Also supports MetaShapes - good for some organic effects (in Carrara Pro they are known as Metaball - I think, in Shade 7 they also were called this way).
Shade has not many features, so it's stable. However, 9.0.1 crashes when I tried to use autosmooth/interpolate feature, and I'm glad they fixed it in v9.0.2.
Speaking about modeling Shade is not so unlike. In Cinema 4D you have to do model staff like you do it in Shade - not in the model view, but rather in model outline. I mean constructing new object by moving existing ones to and from new parents. Sometimes it is more comfortable, sometimes not.
Shade advantage is realistic high-quality and VERY fast renderer, callisto, and not modeling (maybe with some exceptions). That's why I'm waiting for a better Amapi+Shade fusion.

Shade was my first tool, I like it, but I'm not too happy with it, that's why I'm sniffing around. I have now Poser, Hexagon, Carrara (which will not support Poser 7 dynamic cloth and hair in Transposer, what a shame) and Amapi.
I should agree with juanmanuel (why do I always agree with him? ) Amapi+Poser+Shade is a cool trio, but they still are a set of a different products. I hope it will change.

Excuse my pidgin.

[juanmanuel]

Originally Posted by Wася

I should agree with juanmanuel (why do I always agree with him? ) Amapi+Poser+Shade is a cool trio, but they still are a set of a different products. I hope it will change.

That was so funny!

When I started mentalizing myself for lunging into the freelance work (I used to work on a dead end job, long boring story!), I started to look around and search for a set of applications that would not force me to sell my car (or my soul) to afford them, and help me work doing what I like, namely, 3d illustrations. I worked with 3dStudio Max, one of the "big boys of 3d" since it was an MS-DOS app, so I was not really a 3d newbie
Carrara was a serious contender, as well as the barebones Cinema4D version. However, I found Carrara very complicated to understand, and Cinema4D basic version too basic.
Then I got a mail about an offer for the pre-release sale of Poser6, which among other things, included Shade7LE.
It seemed like a nice combinations. A modeling and rendering application, plus a program to help me put believable human scales in my renders. I had heard of Shade from some Anime thingies, and the renders I saw in Japanese sites were nothing short of amazing. And both for only 249US$

Well, since then I have become hooked to e-frontier products! Lots of bang for the buck. I have Shade8.5 pro, Poser7, Motion Artist3 (which I think I'll upgrade to version4 this weekend, Manga StudioEX, Amapi 7.5 pro, Art Rage and Aquazone. I bought the 5cd Shade collections before I upgraded to Shade Pro (and don't regret it, they are a tremendous value as they are).

I like using Shade. Even when I had been using 3dsmax for a long time, I had not improved my modeling and rendering skills that much. Most of 3dsmax I never even used, it was too big a program for what I did (and do).

And Shade 8.5 is so much better than Shade7. It has retained its simplicity, but is more straightforward. And it seems Shade9 will be much better still.

And those things that it does not do, I use the other applications I mentioned. They get along quite nice with Shade. Sure it would be nice to have all those things inside Shade. But if that would mean sacrificing simplicity, I prefer leaving things as they are.

I must admit that my first 15 minute encounter with Shade was more of a what is this? How do I do things? Where are the cute icons!!!
Then I read the first modeling tutorial in the pdf file, did the famous hat tutorial made by Noel, and I stopped doing tutorials. I had "learned" how things worked! I even started doing tutorials as a favour to requests in the forums, and I did my first tutorial before I had 30 days working with Shade!