hello from the fires under the pan - Polyloop

phylazian · 25th November 2006, 02:11

Well I'm very much a noob in the ways of 3D art and animations. but over the past 5+ yrs ive been collecting 3D graphic programs saying to myself that I that I would like to get into graphic design and animations and should get myself back into college for it but instead I jumped from the pan and into the fires teaching myself Poser 5, 3dsmax 6, Bryce 5, Adobe Photoshop 9 CS2, MakeHuman, and these are the programs that ive also collected or have demos of: uvmapper, Hexagon, maya 7, Blacksmith3D, Visual Studio6, mimic pro, and clothim. I have many freebies that go with DAZ and Poser 5 as well. I'm beyond lost

, the only thing that has kept me from dumping it all is the fact that I have friends that are helping me to make this my full time business.

well that is my hellos and a lengthy description of myself

Phylazian

medeamajic · 25th November 2006, 05:37

Welcome to the forums.

I hope you can make a living from 3-D animaton but I must state this right form the start. I know many people who have spent over $5,000.00 dollars on software to do freelance video production work only to find out they can not use it. If my friend hears that some studio was hiring 3DS Max artist at $27.00 per hour he buys the softwar and says " I am going to be a 3DS Max artist". He also has PhotoShop and the Avid Xpress software but he still has not even put together a demo reel because he can not use 3DS Max, After Effects, Avid or PhotoShop. I know some mechanics that make $30.00 an hour. I do not say to myself "I will get a few tools of my own and become a mechanic". I know there is a lot to learn as a certified mechanic. Do you like 3-D animation as a hobby? I think your best bet is to forget all the bells and whistles of Maya, 3DS Max and even Carrara and just use the program that has the easiest GUI for you. It is better to have a progam that you can use and produce something then a program as good as what Pixar uses yet you can not use it to produce a demo reel let alone work for a client. Find a program and stick with it for several years before trying to freelance is my best advice. I think you must enjoy it as a hobby for several years before trying to become a pro. Don't rush it. It takes time to learn any 3-D GUI and you must commit to testing your self each day with something new. I now some folks buy 3DS MAx and expect the program to read their mind.

You should be able to find good help for many 3-D programs at polyloop.com.

phylazian · 26th November 2006, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by medeamajic

1) If my friend hears that some studio was hiring 3DS Max artist at $27.00 per hour he buys the softwar and says " I am going to be a 3DS Max artist". He also has PhotoShop and the Avid Xpress software but he still has not even put together a demo reel because he can not use 3DS Max, After Effects, Avid or PhotoShop.

2) Do you like 3-D animation as a hobby? I think your best bet is to forget all the bells and whistles of Maya, 3DS Max and even Carrara and just use the program that has the easiest GUI for you. It is better to have a progam that you can use and produce something then a program as good as what Pixar uses yet you can not use it to produce a demo reel let alone work for a client. Find a program and stick with it for several years before trying to freelance is my best advice. I think you must enjoy it as a hobby for several years before trying to become a pro. Don't rush it. It takes time to learn any 3-D GUI and you must commit to testing your self each day with something new. I now some folks buy 3DS MAx and expect the program to read their mind.

1. Its not really the money that made me want to do this, its mostly the fact that most of my time while growing up ive seen the graphics go from squares and dots like pong and ratrace on the old comadore64 and Vic20 systems to PS2, X-box, and the comp games of today.

2. I keep thinking that all of the ideas and mental images i have could be made into reality now. I not only played video games but i also played a lot of D&D and loved it because i could partially convey to others what i was able to see in my mind. It felt good to see the understanding and now there is a way for me to show more

the only reason i have so many programs is because I dont know what programs will be good for me, as i know that some people take to one program more then another.

what id like to start with before i get into animations is textures and clothing. i figure that would be something fairly simple to start on, but i find myself playing with the body morphings and im not sure really what im doing because i dont know how to facter in the magnets and conforming aspects and other such things

medeamajic · 26th November 2006, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by phylazian

2. I keep thinking that all of the ideas and mental images i have could be made into reality now. I not only played video games but i also played a lot of D&D and loved it because i could partially convey to others what i was able to see in my mind. It felt good to see the understanding and now there is a way for me to show more

the only reason i have so many programs is because I dont know what programs will be good for me, as i know that some people take to one program more then another.

Millions of people play video games yet most can not design them. Liking something and being good at it is not the same thing. Some people can draw good others are good with computers. I can not say what program is right for you. I say try the demos and use the progam that has the best GUI for the way you work.

Nichod · 26th November 2006, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by medeamajic

Millions of people play video games yet most can not design them. Liking something and being good at it is not the same thing. Some people can draw good others are good with computers. I can not say what program is right for you. I say try the demos and use the progam that has the best GUI for the way you work.

Don't be that discouraging. Now is a good time to jump into the field. I say go for it, but expect things to be rough from the start with lots of effort required.

phylazian · 26th November 2006, 22:25

I knew before I jumped in to this that it would be rough ive been holding myself back for some time now mostly because of my lack of funds and the fact im only running on a P2 450 with an old junk vid card. the comp is 7+ yrs old and is made up of at least 5 different computers im actually surprised it is running as good as it is

I cant draw to save a life as ocd kicks in and i end up making a hole in the paper from erasing and re-erasing hehe i figure using the computer to create what i see in my mind will definately save me a lot of money in paper costs

I dont have any intrest in programming games as i figure there is too much headache in finding a piece of code isnt working and then trying to find it to fix.... i have a hard enough time with trying to make a website

medeamajic · 27th November 2006, 00:07

My gaming refrence was to state that not everyone can maka a living in the field they like. I was not implying that you want to be a game designer. For some using Poser is a good way toget your feet wet. It is very easy to use but also very limited. Bryce can do some cool things but the GUI Is out dated. Both programs should work on your old system. I think Carrara is easier to use then most but it is all comes down what works best for your needs. Keep using the demos.

medeamajic · 27th November 2006, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichod

Don't be that discouraging. Now is a good time to jump into the field. I say go for it, but expect things to be rough from the start with lots of effort required.

I don't think I was discouraging at all. In fact I think I was very very very helpful. I was leting phylazian know that it takes time to learn any 3-D program. I was advising him to spend a couple of years learning the program to master the GUI. I can not expect to become a certified mechanic or certified Avid editor overnight although many people expect it to work out that way.

phylazian · 27th November 2006, 03:26

its ok im not easily offened or anything specially since im new to all this :P and besides I encourage any and all advice as to how i should approach all of this hehe

bwtr · 27th November 2006, 05:46

phlazian. In response to one of your earlier quotes I say that everyone can draw. Most 'learners" try to draw what the think they see instead of just letting the hand follow what the eye sees.

An experiment is to draw somethging when your hand, and what you are drawing on, is not seen by you. (Have your drawing being done UNDER the table top!)

And don't rub out your previous marks! Your marks "searching for a truth" are part of the naturalness of a lot of good art drawing.

If you get the book "Drawing on the right hand side of the brain"you will soon see what I mean.

I found the computer on switch just 4 odd years go and, at 75, am having the time of my life with 3D--especially Carrara5Pro.

phylazian · 27th November 2006, 14:14

Well, I should have said that 99% of the time I am unable to draw to save a life.

There is those rare instances where my perfectionism(ocd) doesn't come into play and I am able to draw on paper, but for the most part it is beyond difficult for me to put my mental imagery on paper this also includes writing but that is due to getting rapid writers block

I figure doing 3D art will allow me to create the characters as I see them and then make the story come alive, see if it is something that will smash the writers block. 3D Animations is one of my future goals but for now im happy with with producing 3d characters and clothing, well once I figure out how to make them that is.

Dann-O · 29th November 2006, 01:59

3D takes a heck of a lot more time than 2D. (considering you are using all your own content) I find often that drawing something on paper will help me warm up to modelign that item and make it go more smoothly. Most of the peopel who are really good at 3D can draw well too particualraly organic stuff like you want. There are a lot of mechanical modelers who are good who can't draw well because they work from photos or plans but the organic guys are all decent at drawing.

Don't blow a lot of money on programs there are free and low cost ones that can get the job done. Get a modeler and learn that. Wings3d is very good and it is free. There are some others too. Keep at it but really you need to know there are a lot of peopel out ther ewho are very good and are still only doing it as a hobby.

phylazian · 29th November 2006, 04:09

I tried working with wings3D and couldnt figure out anything. I have a bunch of programs already like Poser 5, Bryce 5, photoshop 9 cs2, etc. i found a few free programs but most of them i had a hard time to navigate.
If my drawing skills were better id try to do it that way, its just hard not to get frustrated when i mess up and when i mess up no matter how far ive gotten into the drawing i feel like i have to start all over.

bwtr · 29th November 2006, 04:22

phylazian. Mate, you are going to have real problems if you can not work Wings. It's about as simple as you can get. Did you download the 131page pdf manual?

Can you work Photoshop with relative ease? If so you should not have problems with Wings.

You need to stay with 3 simple programmes to start with --forget the rest.

Try sticking with Bryce (or Carrara Basics), Wings and Photoshop. When this combination is not good enough THEN look at others.

Dann-O · 29th November 2006, 05:56

Spending a lot of money will not solve yrou problem and I will tell you Wings is very good at what it does there are maya users who do a lot of their modeling in Wings. Another decent free one to try is metaseqoia also moment of inspiration is a decent nurbs modeler.
Also a bit of advice is don't use poser. It is a quick easy way to do things and well noone is looking for poser users. You need to learn modeleing and renderign not putting other peoples models together in a pleasing way. It can be useful at times. Also once you get to where you can do a few things with a modeler post some WIP's at places where peopel offer real criticism like Subdivisionmodeling.com or CG talk.

Also don't fool yourself it takes real time and effort to make decent 3D art. I work at my stuff an average of 3 hours a day. You need to invest the time and effort to get good because if you are not investing it then someone else is they will get the job and not you.

Also a lot of good reading here some of it will help you sort it out and there are excelelnt tutorials here once you get ready to do them but read anylitical thinking and put your money where your mouth is. This guy is one of hte best out ther ein the game industry forgive the lame site name. http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/tutorial.htm

phylazian · 29th November 2006, 07:14

Will UVMapper and Hexagon help me? What are the file types i should be working with? I know .obj, .bum, and .mat but ive seem a lot of different ones should i look for a file converter as well?

Quote:

phylazian. Mate, you are going to have real problems if you can not work Wings. It's about as simple as you can get. Did you download the 131page pdf manual?

Sometimes its the simplest of things that baffle the most complex of minds.
it is weird just how true this statement is, see ive always been a puzzler, meaning that its the rpg games, crossword puzzles, word searches, etc. Its hard for me to see the simpler things due to that fact.

Quote:

Spending a lot of money will not solve your problem
Another decent free one to try is metaseqoia also moment of inspiration is a decent nurbs modeler.

I actually got bryce 5 and poser 5 free and ps9cs2 i was given from a friend, the other programs im borrowing.
I realize i wont beable to to it over night, and one of my drawbacks is my vid card its an old tnt2 and i think it went through a power surge at some point during the last 7 years cuz just about any animation of any kind slows the comp down a lot.

bwtr · 29th November 2006, 07:23

Think you have a long way to go before you need UVMapper (free). If you find Wings hard, Hexagon will really confound you. The more I think about it you would be well served to start with, if not Carrara Basics, then Carrara 5 Standard.

Use only that and Photoshop for the next 12 months--forget all the others.

phylazian · 29th November 2006, 07:40

is either of those free because atm i am working with no money on hand, I have to prove to my supporter that this is a job with a good amount of demand, supply a business plan, and prove that if they give me the funding then it will be worth it.

medeamajic · 29th November 2006, 09:46

I do not want to sound discouraging but I think your supporter should just hire a 3DS Max or Maya artist while you spend a few years learning Maya PLE. Maya PLE is free but form your first post it sounds like you have 3DS Max.

I agree with bwtr that you need not worry about UV mapper as of now. Start of with basics like fliping and rotating a box. Then try adding premade shaders. Can you get a box/cube to animate?

phylazian · 29th November 2006, 14:35

I ment supporter as in finacial backer. Basically, they are going to pay for me to make a business for myself, but only if I can prove that it is worth it for them to do so. Its a state run program for people with different types of disabilities that make it difficult to work in a normal work environment, in my case I have OCD(Obsecive Compulsive Disorder) and PTSD(Post Tramatic Stress Disorder), because it is a state run program and there is more then just me they help with a limited amount of funding so its first come first serve

Animations isn't my first goal but it is on the list, what I would like to work with first is just creating characters and clothing. Once I know that I am able to make the clothing look good ill work on the animations but im not going to plan too far ahead cuz my mind will try to focus on that as well as what im trying to do now if you know what I mean?

25th November 2006, 02:11	#1 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	hello from the fires under the pan Well I'm very much a noob in the ways of 3D art and animations. but over the past 5+ yrs ive been collecting 3D graphic programs saying to myself that I that I would like to get into graphic design and animations and should get myself back into college for it but instead I jumped from the pan and into the fires teaching myself Poser 5, 3dsmax 6, Bryce 5, Adobe Photoshop 9 CS2, MakeHuman, and these are the programs that ive also collected or have demos of: uvmapper, Hexagon, maya 7, Blacksmith3D, Visual Studio6, mimic pro, and clothim. I have many freebies that go with DAZ and Poser 5 as well. I'm beyond lost , the only thing that has kept me from dumping it all is the fact that I have friends that are helping me to make this my full time business. well that is my hellos and a lengthy description of myself Phylazian

25th November 2006, 05:37	#2 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	Welcome to the forums. I hope you can make a living from 3-D animaton but I must state this right form the start. I know many people who have spent over $5,000.00 dollars on software to do freelance video production work only to find out they can not use it. If my friend hears that some studio was hiring 3DS Max artist at $27.00 per hour he buys the softwar and says " I am going to be a 3DS Max artist". He also has PhotoShop and the Avid Xpress software but he still has not even put together a demo reel because he can not use 3DS Max, After Effects, Avid or PhotoShop. I know some mechanics that make $30.00 an hour. I do not say to myself "I will get a few tools of my own and become a mechanic". I know there is a lot to learn as a certified mechanic. Do you like 3-D animation as a hobby? I think your best bet is to forget all the bells and whistles of Maya, 3DS Max and even Carrara and just use the program that has the easiest GUI for you. It is better to have a progam that you can use and produce something then a program as good as what Pixar uses yet you can not use it to produce a demo reel let alone work for a client. Find a program and stick with it for several years before trying to freelance is my best advice. I think you must enjoy it as a hobby for several years before trying to become a pro. Don't rush it. It takes time to learn any 3-D GUI and you must commit to testing your self each day with something new. I now some folks buy 3DS MAx and expect the program to read their mind. You should be able to find good help for many 3-D programs at polyloop.com. Last edited by medeamajic; 25th November 2006 at 15:02.

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26th November 2006, 22:25	#6 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	I knew before I jumped in to this that it would be rough ive been holding myself back for some time now mostly because of my lack of funds and the fact im only running on a P2 450 with an old junk vid card. the comp is 7+ yrs old and is made up of at least 5 different computers im actually surprised it is running as good as it is I cant draw to save a life as ocd kicks in and i end up making a hole in the paper from erasing and re-erasing hehe i figure using the computer to create what i see in my mind will definately save me a lot of money in paper costs I dont have any intrest in programming games as i figure there is too much headache in finding a piece of code isnt working and then trying to find it to fix.... i have a hard enough time with trying to make a website

27th November 2006, 00:07	#7 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	My gaming refrence was to state that not everyone can maka a living in the field they like. I was not implying that you want to be a game designer. For some using Poser is a good way toget your feet wet. It is very easy to use but also very limited. Bryce can do some cool things but the GUI Is out dated. Both programs should work on your old system. I think Carrara is easier to use then most but it is all comes down what works best for your needs. Keep using the demos.

27th November 2006, 03:26	#9 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	its ok im not easily offened or anything specially since im new to all this :P and besides I encourage any and all advice as to how i should approach all of this hehe

27th November 2006, 05:46	#10 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,089	phlazian. In response to one of your earlier quotes I say that everyone can draw. Most 'learners" try to draw what the think they see instead of just letting the hand follow what the eye sees. An experiment is to draw somethging when your hand, and what you are drawing on, is not seen by you. (Have your drawing being done UNDER the table top!) And don't rub out your previous marks! Your marks "searching for a truth" are part of the naturalness of a lot of good art drawing. If you get the book "Drawing on the right hand side of the brain"you will soon see what I mean. I found the computer on switch just 4 odd years go and, at 75, am having the time of my life with 3D--especially Carrara5Pro.

27th November 2006, 14:14	#11 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	Well, I should have said that 99% of the time I am unable to draw to save a life. There is those rare instances where my perfectionism(ocd) doesn't come into play and I am able to draw on paper, but for the most part it is beyond difficult for me to put my mental imagery on paper this also includes writing but that is due to getting rapid writers block I figure doing 3D art will allow me to create the characters as I see them and then make the story come alive, see if it is something that will smash the writers block. 3D Animations is one of my future goals but for now im happy with with producing 3d characters and clothing, well once I figure out how to make them that is.

29th November 2006, 01:59	#12 (permalink)
Dann-O AKA Monkey King Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Erie Pennsylvania Posts: 173	3D takes a heck of a lot more time than 2D. (considering you are using all your own content) I find often that drawing something on paper will help me warm up to modelign that item and make it go more smoothly. Most of the peopel who are really good at 3D can draw well too particualraly organic stuff like you want. There are a lot of mechanical modelers who are good who can't draw well because they work from photos or plans but the organic guys are all decent at drawing. Don't blow a lot of money on programs there are free and low cost ones that can get the job done. Get a modeler and learn that. Wings3d is very good and it is free. There are some others too. Keep at it but really you need to know there are a lot of peopel out ther ewho are very good and are still only doing it as a hobby.

29th November 2006, 04:09	#13 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	I tried working with wings3D and couldnt figure out anything. I have a bunch of programs already like Poser 5, Bryce 5, photoshop 9 cs2, etc. i found a few free programs but most of them i had a hard time to navigate. If my drawing skills were better id try to do it that way, its just hard not to get frustrated when i mess up and when i mess up no matter how far ive gotten into the drawing i feel like i have to start all over.

29th November 2006, 04:22	#14 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,089	phylazian. Mate, you are going to have real problems if you can not work Wings. It's about as simple as you can get. Did you download the 131page pdf manual? Can you work Photoshop with relative ease? If so you should not have problems with Wings. You need to stay with 3 simple programmes to start with --forget the rest. Try sticking with Bryce (or Carrara Basics), Wings and Photoshop. When this combination is not good enough THEN look at others.

29th November 2006, 05:56	#15 (permalink)
Dann-O AKA Monkey King Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Erie Pennsylvania Posts: 173	Spending a lot of money will not solve yrou problem and I will tell you Wings is very good at what it does there are maya users who do a lot of their modeling in Wings. Another decent free one to try is metaseqoia also moment of inspiration is a decent nurbs modeler. Also a bit of advice is don't use poser. It is a quick easy way to do things and well noone is looking for poser users. You need to learn modeleing and renderign not putting other peoples models together in a pleasing way. It can be useful at times. Also once you get to where you can do a few things with a modeler post some WIP's at places where peopel offer real criticism like Subdivisionmodeling.com or CG talk. Also don't fool yourself it takes real time and effort to make decent 3D art. I work at my stuff an average of 3 hours a day. You need to invest the time and effort to get good because if you are not investing it then someone else is they will get the job and not you. Also a lot of good reading here some of it will help you sort it out and there are excelelnt tutorials here once you get ready to do them but read anylitical thinking and put your money where your mouth is. This guy is one of hte best out ther ein the game industry forgive the lame site name. http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/tutorial.htm

29th November 2006, 07:23	#17 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,089	Think you have a long way to go before you need UVMapper (free). If you find Wings hard, Hexagon will really confound you. The more I think about it you would be well served to start with, if not Carrara Basics, then Carrara 5 Standard. Use only that and Photoshop for the next 12 months--forget all the others.

29th November 2006, 07:40	#18 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	is either of those free because atm i am working with no money on hand, I have to prove to my supporter that this is a job with a good amount of demand, supply a business plan, and prove that if they give me the funding then it will be worth it.

29th November 2006, 09:46	#19 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	I do not want to sound discouraging but I think your supporter should just hire a 3DS Max or Maya artist while you spend a few years learning Maya PLE. Maya PLE is free but form your first post it sounds like you have 3DS Max. I agree with bwtr that you need not worry about UV mapper as of now. Start of with basics like fliping and rotating a box. Then try adding premade shaders. Can you get a box/cube to animate?

29th November 2006, 14:35	#20 (permalink)
phylazian Graphically Challeneged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 17	I ment supporter as in finacial backer. Basically, they are going to pay for me to make a business for myself, but only if I can prove that it is worth it for them to do so. Its a state run program for people with different types of disabilities that make it difficult to work in a normal work environment, in my case I have OCD(Obsecive Compulsive Disorder) and PTSD(Post Tramatic Stress Disorder), because it is a state run program and there is more then just me they help with a limited amount of funding so its first come first serve Animations isn't my first goal but it is on the list, what I would like to work with first is just creating characters and clothing. Once I know that I am able to make the clothing look good ill work on the animations but im not going to plan too far ahead cuz my mind will try to focus on that as well as what im trying to do now if you know what I mean?