newbie needs advice - Polyloop

workinforwood · 13th August 2007, 22:26

I was referred to come here by a boat building forum. My intention is to build the Bow of a boat that will hang on my wall, the front will open up like a door with a big mermaid carved and mounted to the front of that. The inside of the Bow, which is just the front of a boat, will be a cabinet. Basically the front of a pirate ship with a mermaid carved on it and a skeleton key to open it up to reveal the hidden cabinet within. I was told amapi might be able to be used to create a plan that I can work off of. I am a genious when it comes to building out of wood and carving, but I'm sure not a software programmer. If this program can do it, I'll download it and design what I need, although I'll be sure to have tons of stupid questions, but I do have an insane persistance to succeed. Please verify that I have come to the right place and let me know what I should download. Thank you so very much!

bwtr · 14th August 2007, 01:39

I take your question to mean that you want to create a plan of the cabinet idea which you then wish to make in wood?

Learning any 3D programme for that is a long slow learning curve and you are better, if any programme at all, to maybe just start with one of the simple 2D programmes --the free versions of Photoshop style programmes.

However, I am a woodworker/woodcarver and I have only ever used pencil sketches on paper. I can not see any advantage in any CG programme for your needs.

ps. If you can not do it on paper, you will have impossible difficulties trying to do it in any CG app I suggest.

http://www.artweaver.de/index.php?en_version
You might like to try this free 2D programme as a first learning exercise for drawing.

workinforwood · 14th August 2007, 22:08

ok, thanx. My concerns on paper are simply trying to calculate the compound curves that are in the ribs of the front/bow of a boat. It's quite mind boggling as each rib gets smaller and potentially requires completely different compound angles and curves. But I follow what you are saying in that perhaps I'm better off just winging it by building out a frame with the cheapest possible materials such as MDF and cardboard...perfecting that I'd then have templets to transfer into the actual wood. It's probably what it comes down to, but I was sure hoping for a simple software program that would calculate everything out so that I could just end up with a pattern that could be enlarged at a photoshop and then traced to the wood for cutting. I guess I have to wait still for someone that can develop some mind reading software for me ;)

jbshorty · 15th August 2007, 00:05

I am not familiar with specific Amapi tools and UI, as I use Rhino for nearly all of my work. But the concepts of deconstructing a model should be about the same. Normally you would construct the model and then create slices, spaced apart at the thickness of your wood stock. You could physically slice up the model to visualize the construction in layers. Or you could just run the intersections to obtain the curves as cutting templates... If you are interested to make this one project only, it might not be worth the learning curve of 3D. I would just physically carve a model and trace...

shorty

rickei · 15th August 2007, 04:10

I helped my Grandfather build a few small boats as a kid. He used cardboard from refrigerator boxes to create his templates and mock ups.

you may want to do a search for some blueprint's and scale them to whatever size you want.

I'm with shorty on this, I would carve the shape I wanted.
I have been making stage props over the past few weeks and have found that laminating EPS boards (the foam panels that are used for EIFS stucco construction) together with a strong spray glue (super 77, or headliner spray) to make big blocks of foam, that can be carved really quickly. I use a few Nicholson wood rasps to carve with.

an even better product(more $ and harder to find) is "wood wool". this is a foam material that carves like butter, and has a pretty smooth finish. you can get it at a taxidermy supply house.

good luck with this project.

bwtr · 15th August 2007, 04:57

Having been involved in the building of a planked wooden hull, trying to produce in a Nurbs (essential) 3D app to give you accurate plank cutting plans is --well--virtually impossible! There is no shortcut to a good eye and carpentary skills I think.

workinforwood · 15th August 2007, 13:51

Very good, I appreciate all your thoughts. I have as much time as I want, since I just build what I want and when I want, but that doesn't mean I want to waste time working on something or learning something new that won't help me.

jbshorty · 15th August 2007, 14:52

nothing learned is ever really "waste" (except watching a movie starring Will Ferrell or Ben Stiller

). So if you have no deadline, you might as well give it a try...

shorty

bwtr · 16th August 2007, 01:32

http://www.moi3d.com/

This Nurbs modeller is , for a little time, free. As an easy to learn introduction to Nurbs you could not do better.

It will give you an introduction to the working ideas and clarify your desire to really get involved perhaps.

13th August 2007, 22:26	#1 (permalink)
workinforwood Jeff Powell Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4	newbie needs advice I was referred to come here by a boat building forum. My intention is to build the Bow of a boat that will hang on my wall, the front will open up like a door with a big mermaid carved and mounted to the front of that. The inside of the Bow, which is just the front of a boat, will be a cabinet. Basically the front of a pirate ship with a mermaid carved on it and a skeleton key to open it up to reveal the hidden cabinet within. I was told amapi might be able to be used to create a plan that I can work off of. I am a genious when it comes to building out of wood and carving, but I'm sure not a software programmer. If this program can do it, I'll download it and design what I need, although I'll be sure to have tons of stupid questions, but I do have an insane persistance to succeed. Please verify that I have come to the right place and let me know what I should download. Thank you so very much!

14th August 2007, 01:39	#2 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	I take your question to mean that you want to create a plan of the cabinet idea which you then wish to make in wood? Learning any 3D programme for that is a long slow learning curve and you are better, if any programme at all, to maybe just start with one of the simple 2D programmes --the free versions of Photoshop style programmes. However, I am a woodworker/woodcarver and I have only ever used pencil sketches on paper. I can not see any advantage in any CG programme for your needs. ps. If you can not do it on paper, you will have impossible difficulties trying to do it in any CG app I suggest. http://www.artweaver.de/index.php?en_version You might like to try this free 2D programme as a first learning exercise for drawing. Last edited by bwtr; 14th August 2007 at 03:06.

15th August 2007, 04:57	#6 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	Having been involved in the building of a planked wooden hull, trying to produce in a Nurbs (essential) 3D app to give you accurate plank cutting plans is --well--virtually impossible! There is no shortcut to a good eye and carpentary skills I think. Attached Thumbnails

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14th August 2007, 22:08	#3 (permalink)
workinforwood Jeff Powell Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4	ok, thanx. My concerns on paper are simply trying to calculate the compound curves that are in the ribs of the front/bow of a boat. It's quite mind boggling as each rib gets smaller and potentially requires completely different compound angles and curves. But I follow what you are saying in that perhaps I'm better off just winging it by building out a frame with the cheapest possible materials such as MDF and cardboard...perfecting that I'd then have templets to transfer into the actual wood. It's probably what it comes down to, but I was sure hoping for a simple software program that would calculate everything out so that I could just end up with a pattern that could be enlarged at a photoshop and then traced to the wood for cutting. I guess I have to wait still for someone that can develop some mind reading software for me ;)

15th August 2007, 00:05	#4 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,317 Images: 1	I am not familiar with specific Amapi tools and UI, as I use Rhino for nearly all of my work. But the concepts of deconstructing a model should be about the same. Normally you would construct the model and then create slices, spaced apart at the thickness of your wood stock. You could physically slice up the model to visualize the construction in layers. Or you could just run the intersections to obtain the curves as cutting templates... If you are interested to make this one project only, it might not be worth the learning curve of 3D. I would just physically carve a model and trace... shorty

15th August 2007, 04:10	#5 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 769 Images: 1	I helped my Grandfather build a few small boats as a kid. He used cardboard from refrigerator boxes to create his templates and mock ups. you may want to do a search for some blueprint's and scale them to whatever size you want. I'm with shorty on this, I would carve the shape I wanted. I have been making stage props over the past few weeks and have found that laminating EPS boards (the foam panels that are used for EIFS stucco construction) together with a strong spray glue (super 77, or headliner spray) to make big blocks of foam, that can be carved really quickly. I use a few Nicholson wood rasps to carve with. an even better product(more $ and harder to find) is "wood wool". this is a foam material that carves like butter, and has a pretty smooth finish. you can get it at a taxidermy supply house. good luck with this project.

15th August 2007, 13:51	#7 (permalink)
workinforwood Jeff Powell Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4	Very good, I appreciate all your thoughts. I have as much time as I want, since I just build what I want and when I want, but that doesn't mean I want to waste time working on something or learning something new that won't help me.

15th August 2007, 14:52	#8 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,317 Images: 1	nothing learned is ever really "waste" (except watching a movie starring Will Ferrell or Ben Stiller ). So if you have no deadline, you might as well give it a try... shorty

16th August 2007, 01:32	#9 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	http://www.moi3d.com/ This Nurbs modeller is , for a little time, free. As an easy to learn introduction to Nurbs you could not do better. It will give you an introduction to the working ideas and clarify your desire to really get involved perhaps.