Well maybe Ive been scared for nothing? - Polyloop

DanRoberts · 28th April 2006, 07:01

Well,

Daz keeps doing things that are very quickly changing my mind about them in many ways.

1) 1st they come through on the promised delivery. With additional benefits.
2) And over at the Daz forums Bob Stockwell is very active ... In fact so much so ... it seems that there wont to be any problem with development in the future brcuase our voices will be heard.
3) To be honest I dont understand the 1.99 Hex deal ... but It seems Daz makes it very valuable to be a platinum member.
4) I e-mail Bob Stockwell about a license key ... and he responded within 5 minutes.

So Im stunned ... My image of daz has been changed im many ways ... also on top of that ... I think that if anything comes up in the future about the directions or progress of Hex and Carrera ... our voices will be heard.

Its started ... with an avatar change for fun ... but maybe to some extent ... Im becoming a convert

. There are some things that I hope change but most of my concerns seem to being squashed.

Good Job Bob Stockwell ... ur a good guy.

Anyone else feel this way?

mykyl1966 · 28th April 2006, 07:16

To be honest I dont know what to think. its 6:14am here in the UK and I am gobsmacked by this.

I would never have believed it if I hadnt seen it.

Cheers

Mike R

medeamajic · 5th May 2006, 01:27

Unlike a lot of Daz members some Eovia members pre ordered before the buy out. As a Hexagon 1.2 user I find it odd that platinum members can get Hexagon 2 for less than I can upgrade. I would think Daz is a great company if they offered me an upgrade for $1.99. The true Eovians get the shaft. Hexagon can sell on it's own merit. I think it is a mistake to give a good program like Hexagon away for $1.99 to Daz members. I can imagine a $149.99 price for Daz members but not $1.99. Daz needs money to pay the programmers to make Hexagon 3 unless Daz has plans to let Hexagon die a slow death like Bryce.

manleystanley · 5th May 2006, 05:22

Daz has a great marketing crew. It was shear genius to sell it at $1.99{plus the Pclub membership, and all the sh.... er items that come with it} .Think about it, it's all in the user base. How many copies have been sold sence it came out? Just look at the number of bug reports and download complaints there have been. I like racing games, I would love to have gotten rFactor when it came out. It was released at $40, I thought that was a bit much for a downloadable game. It was a 350+meg download. The first month after the release there wasn't 5% as many complants about it as there was in the first week of the release of Hex2. Was it beacuse Hex2 was a bugyer program? No.
Daz now has a huge user base for Hex2. Daz has probebly sold more copies of Hex2 sence it's release, then would have sold in a year if it had been sold at full price. And as a bonus Daz now has a bit of you on it's web site.
So as I said a few days ago, we have been Dazzled.

Daz is my freind, I love Daz. I must go to Daz and spend money daily. O_O

SEJ · 5th May 2006, 05:56

DAZ marketing is pure genius!
Yes, they have boosted the Hexagon user base more than could have been done any other way. I am indeed amazed! It's like Bill Gates was running the marketing show over there.

I paid the pre-order price and missed out on the $30 or $1.99 deal but I don't care anymore. Because of DAZ I think Hexagon's future is brighter than it ever could have been otherwise before it was in the hands of DAZ. You know the money is LARGE and there for future development! Money that was never there before. My prediction is that DAZ will bring Carrara and Hexagon along better than anyone could have ever before. DAZ has more options for development than Eovia ever had already. Hats off to Eovia for doing the good job they did, but I have a feeling we are about to see even greater things from DAZ! They got the marketing smarts which means CASH to do what they need to do. You can always do the job if you have the money. You can do more and you have more options.

Hexagon and Carrara are safer than ever before.

Thank you DAZ! You have my full support and backing. DAZ is my friend. I trust the kind of smart thinking going on at DAZ. I could not ask for a better sign than what I have seen in recent days from DAZ for Hexagon's and Carrara's futures.

Sheer DAZ genius!

medeamajic · 5th May 2006, 06:28

You are saying it is wise to sell a great product like Hexagon for $1.99? Even if they sell 2 million copies they will not have 2 million in revenue. What good does it do to have 2 million users if there is no money to pay the programers and rent? I could buy Hexagon and give it a way. What good would that do? Are you confusing a bigger user base with a bigger profit?

Yea, Bryce 5.5 has taken the world by storm.

manleystanley · 5th May 2006, 14:12

Lets see. 10000 custumers at $270 a head = $2.7mil. 2 million customers at $32 a head = $64million. Looks like easy math to me. Some how I dought seriously if Daz is hurting for money.

KhrisK · 5th May 2006, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by manleystanley

Lets see. 10000 custumers at $270 a head = $2.7mil. 2 million customers at $32 a head = $64million. Looks like easy math to me. Some how I dought seriously if Daz is hurting for money.

Okay. How about 2 million customers at $40 a head = $80million. $16 million difference. More than enough to do major upgrades for Bryce/Hex/Carrara combined.

Sarissi · 5th May 2006, 15:37

Alot of those '2 Million' customers were already Platinum Club members, before the acquisiton/merger, like myself, who is a new hexagon user, thanks to that aggressive PC Item marketing thing. All this did was move my buying Hex2 from 'a few months from now at eovia at full price', to 'immediate purchase'.

Of course, being a total newb to modelling, I look at any modelling app UI and think 'okay, now WTF do I do???'

mykyl1966 · 5th May 2006, 15:55

No company does anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Rest assured they will have thought about what they are doing and have done all the forcasts etc. ;)

How many people who would not normally have bought Hexagon have bought it. It is unfortunate the ammount of bugs in the app but if they manage that well with an update then they could still have the trust of users. Some will fall by the wayside bleating and crying for their mummys and telling the world and its sister how horrible things were when they went the Hexagon route but plenty will wait and see how these issues are addressed. So far I am impressed by the bug forum that allows everyone to see what is outstanding and what is being done about each thing mentioned. Some issues were outside the control of the hexagon developers as well as Daz. These issues were identified quickly and a work around issued. (The nvidia driver issues).

The biggest negative to me is the Euro side of things. I know personally what its like being told that your side of the company is being left behind. It can twist your guts up for a while. However whatever each of these individuals decide to do next I am confident that they will do well once the shock subsides.

Cheers

Mike R

Aine · 5th May 2006, 16:09

Right Mike!

It is pure marketting. Isn't only about the base dollars for any new members which buy into it. But the numbers of that member base applied properly could have stock prices and any possible invester money skyrocketing. Large market base figures can open doors.

I have seen this done by many companies from the little mom and pop's to the super multi-complex woojoomawhozites with quite a bit of success.

(seen it backfire too)

Only in time will anyone be able to see if this was a good plan or not.

medeamajic · 5th May 2006, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarissi

Alot of those '2 Million' customers were already Platinum Club members, before the acquisiton/merger, like myself, who is a new hexagon user, thanks to that aggressive PC Item marketing thing. All this did was move my buying Hex2 from 'a few months from now at eovia at full price', to 'immediate purchase'.

I think you folks are very confused. Daz will not sell 2 million copies. They might sell 25000. I was stating that at $1.99 they are still paying for programmers, sales staff, tech support, office space etc. Selling 2 million copies will not make Daz rich after people are paid. They would make some money but not as much as if they sold Hexagon for $149.99. I could buy the Hexagon program and give it away as a free download. I imagine I would get several thousand users but how would I pay the programmers to make improvments for Hexagon 3?

It did more than move your purchase date of Hexagon. We will have to see what the upgrade for Hexagon 3.0 will cost.

Hexagon is just bait for the Daz membership.

Sarissi · 6th May 2006, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by medeamajic

I think you folks are very confused. Daz will not sell 2 million copies. They might sell 25000. I was stating that at $1.99 they are still paying for programmers, sales staff, tech support, office space etc. Selling 2 million copies will not make Daz rich after people are paid. They would make some money but not as much as if they sold Hexagon for $149.99. I could buy the Hexagon program and give it away as a free download. I imagine I would get several thousand users but how would I pay the programmers to make improvments for Hexagon 3?

It did more than move your purchase date of Hexagon. We will have to see what the upgrade for Hexagon 3.0 will cost.

Hexagon is just bait for the Daz membership.

I disagree with your last sentence. I can't argue with the rest of your reply, though. We shall see in due course.

Hex2 was already on my list of apps to get, before Daz acquired Eovia US, so all the PC Item price did was move the purchase date for me. I have been a PC member for about 3 years now.

Oh, the '2 million' was reference by someone else, which I chose to use for my reply.

Another thing, IF I had done a Hex2 preorder, I would NOT be griping and whining. I would merely expect to get what I ordered and paid for, at the price I ordered it. NO more and NO less.

manleystanley · 6th May 2006, 14:09

medeamajic I'd be willing to bet Daz sold 25000 copies of Hex2 in the first few days after the release. We'll never know for sure, that certainly isn't info Daz would give out.
Why do you think Daz studio is free? So Daz can establish a large user base for it to sell it's content to. This marketing plan has worked so good for Daz that it was able to buy out Eovia. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Hex2.1 wont be a free upgrade. So daz now has a built in customer base for the 2.1{ with all the bugs fixed} upgrade.
more money, more money......

medeamajic · 6th May 2006, 17:34

Did you read what Sarissi wrote? She was going to get Hexagon anyway. She was going to buy it. Daz would have made more money. Many people want Hexagon and will buy it. People that never even heard of Daz want Hexagon and Carrara. Hexagon is not some cheesy Daz program that should be free. Both Daz and Carrara can sell on their own merits. I think Daz members should have received and upgrade price but $1.99 is giving it away. I think Daz would have done the same thing with Maya if they had bought it. Would you give away Maya just to get a bigger base or offer an upgrade price? Some of the users of Hexagon will never buy Daz models. I never have been a Daz club member.

tyrell · 6th May 2006, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by medeamajic

Some of the users of Hexagon will never buy Daz models. I never have been a Daz club member.

But then, Medeamajic, Sarissi could have been a 3ds max user, or a Maya user, LW, Silo, Cinema4D, Wings3d, or even a 2D user, or an average Joe/Jane in the street who have never heard of Hexagon before. Clearly, Eovia's userbase was not the main target of their marketing campaign. To DAZ, being able to own Eovia also defaults to owning its userbase. I don't even know if they're interested in wooing Eovia users to join the DAZ club other than pacify them with a $100 voucher and free 1 month worth of membership. I'm not sure either if those newcomers who were forced to become members just to buy Hexagon 2 for $1.99 will stay there forever. It would seemed that DAZ made a big gamble in luring everyone to come to the doll house. Also, I'm not sure whether they make more money selling premade stuff or selling software, thus giving away Hex is not as important as gaining new members as potential buyers of their dolls.

I don't know, personally. That's why I'll have to see when C6 ships out.

medeamajic · 6th May 2006, 22:59

Who cares if Sarissi used Maya before and was also a Daz member??????? She will now know of Hexagon and Carrara thanks do Daz and could test out the demo. After testing Hexagon there is a good chance she would buy Hexagon. I had Carrara long before Hexagon but Eovia did not sell me Hexagon for $1.99. I tested out hexagon and liked it so I bought it. I bought Hexagon because it was a good product unlike Daz Studio. You do not have to give away Hexagon. Eovia never did yet many people bought it. I hope that this makes sense finally. Hexagon is not some piece of junk like Daz Studio. I down loaded Daz Studio but I do not use it because Poser works much better for me. I wanted to try Daz Studio out to see what it could do.

Why sell something for $1.99 when people will pay $99.99 and say they got a great deal at $99.99?

tyrell · 6th May 2006, 23:51

If you've been tracking my posts I never went to any extent of defending DAZ's action such as using Hex 2 as a bait to attract customers. I'm simply stating their possible marketing motive or philosophy why they did it the way they did. There has to be an explanation, right? Unless some DAZ rep comes over here and explains their side, we'll never going to know. All we can do is guess till we're blue in the face.

I repeat in simpler terms. It's possible that they don't put that much value in selling software than they do in selling premade stuff. After all, they made tons of money out of it. Tons to buy a company!

You and I can harp all we want about how wonderful Hexagon is and that it should have been sold on its own merit. But it seemed that they were not selling Hex, they were selling membership cards. They use it to attract more members to buy their dolls. Remember, they bought Eovia with the understanding that its userbase goes with it. In other words, they want people, millions of them to become platinum members. Members that will eventually buy their dolls, not Bryce, Hexagon, or Carrara. That's my theory. I hope I'm wrong.

medeamajic · 7th May 2006, 00:48

We can only speculate about Daz's method of marketing. I can only guess that many Daz members will terminate their membership after buying Hexagon. Why pay for models when you can build your own with Hexagon?

Naes3d · 8th May 2006, 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by medeamajic

We can only speculate about Daz's method of marketing. I can only guess that many Daz members will terminate their membership after buying Hexagon. Why pay for models when you can build your own with Hexagon?

It is probably DAZ's hope that people will use Hexagon for creating content that they will sell thru DAZ.

28th April 2006, 07:01	#1 (permalink)
DanRoberts Nogylop Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 100	Well maybe Ive been scared for nothing? Well, Daz keeps doing things that are very quickly changing my mind about them in many ways. 1) 1st they come through on the promised delivery. With additional benefits. 2) And over at the Daz forums Bob Stockwell is very active ... In fact so much so ... it seems that there wont to be any problem with development in the future brcuase our voices will be heard. 3) To be honest I dont understand the 1.99 Hex deal ... but It seems Daz makes it very valuable to be a platinum member. 4) I e-mail Bob Stockwell about a license key ... and he responded within 5 minutes. So Im stunned ... My image of daz has been changed im many ways ... also on top of that ... I think that if anything comes up in the future about the directions or progress of Hex and Carrera ... our voices will be heard. Its started ... with an avatar change for fun ... but maybe to some extent ... Im becoming a convert . There are some things that I hope change but most of my concerns seem to being squashed. Good Job Bob Stockwell ... ur a good guy. Anyone else feel this way?

28th April 2006, 07:16	#2 (permalink)
mykyl1966 Box modeling Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 278	To be honest I dont know what to think. its 6:14am here in the UK and I am gobsmacked by this. I would never have believed it if I hadnt seen it. Cheers Mike R __________________ I dont believe everything I think.

5th May 2006, 05:22	#4 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Daz has a great marketing crew. It was shear genius to sell it at $1.99{plus the Pclub membership, and all the sh.... er items that come with it} .Think about it, it's all in the user base. How many copies have been sold sence it came out? Just look at the number of bug reports and download complaints there have been. I like racing games, I would love to have gotten rFactor when it came out. It was released at $40, I thought that was a bit much for a downloadable game. It was a 350+meg download. The first month after the release there wasn't 5% as many complants about it as there was in the first week of the release of Hex2. Was it beacuse Hex2 was a bugyer program? No. Daz now has a huge user base for Hex2. Daz has probebly sold more copies of Hex2 sence it's release, then would have sold in a year if it had been sold at full price. And as a bonus Daz now has a bit of you on it's web site. So as I said a few days ago, we have been Dazzled. Daz is my freind, I love Daz. I must go to Daz and spend money daily. O_O __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

5th May 2006, 05:56	#5 (permalink)
SEJ Spline Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 44	DAZ marketing is pure genius! DAZ marketing is pure genius! Yes, they have boosted the Hexagon user base more than could have been done any other way. I am indeed amazed! It's like Bill Gates was running the marketing show over there. I paid the pre-order price and missed out on the $30 or $1.99 deal but I don't care anymore. Because of DAZ I think Hexagon's future is brighter than it ever could have been otherwise before it was in the hands of DAZ. You know the money is LARGE and there for future development! Money that was never there before. My prediction is that DAZ will bring Carrara and Hexagon along better than anyone could have ever before. DAZ has more options for development than Eovia ever had already. Hats off to Eovia for doing the good job they did, but I have a feeling we are about to see even greater things from DAZ! They got the marketing smarts which means CASH to do what they need to do. You can always do the job if you have the money. You can do more and you have more options. Hexagon and Carrara are safer than ever before. Thank you DAZ! You have my full support and backing. DAZ is my friend. I trust the kind of smart thinking going on at DAZ. I could not ask for a better sign than what I have seen in recent days from DAZ for Hexagon's and Carrara's futures. Sheer DAZ genius!

5th May 2006, 14:12	#7 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Lets see. 10000 custumers at $270 a head = $2.7mil. 2 million customers at $32 a head = $64million. Looks like easy math to me. Some how I dought seriously if Daz is hurting for money. __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

5th May 2006, 01:27	#3 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	Unlike a lot of Daz members some Eovia members pre ordered before the buy out. As a Hexagon 1.2 user I find it odd that platinum members can get Hexagon 2 for less than I can upgrade. I would think Daz is a great company if they offered me an upgrade for $1.99. The true Eovians get the shaft. Hexagon can sell on it's own merit. I think it is a mistake to give a good program like Hexagon away for $1.99 to Daz members. I can imagine a $149.99 price for Daz members but not $1.99. Daz needs money to pay the programmers to make Hexagon 3 unless Daz has plans to let Hexagon die a slow death like Bryce.

5th May 2006, 06:28	#6 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	You are saying it is wise to sell a great product like Hexagon for $1.99? Even if they sell 2 million copies they will not have 2 million in revenue. What good does it do to have 2 million users if there is no money to pay the programers and rent? I could buy Hexagon and give it a way. What good would that do? Are you confusing a bigger user base with a bigger profit? Yea, Bryce 5.5 has taken the world by storm.

5th May 2006, 15:37	#9 (permalink)
Sarissi NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mansfield, Ohio, USA Posts: 112	Alot of those '2 Million' customers were already Platinum Club members, before the acquisiton/merger, like myself, who is a new hexagon user, thanks to that aggressive PC Item marketing thing. All this did was move my buying Hex2 from 'a few months from now at eovia at full price', to 'immediate purchase'. Of course, being a total newb to modelling, I look at any modelling app UI and think 'okay, now WTF do I do???' __________________ Carrara Newbie

5th May 2006, 15:55	#10 (permalink)
mykyl1966 Box modeling Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 278	No company does anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Rest assured they will have thought about what they are doing and have done all the forcasts etc. ;) How many people who would not normally have bought Hexagon have bought it. It is unfortunate the ammount of bugs in the app but if they manage that well with an update then they could still have the trust of users. Some will fall by the wayside bleating and crying for their mummys and telling the world and its sister how horrible things were when they went the Hexagon route but plenty will wait and see how these issues are addressed. So far I am impressed by the bug forum that allows everyone to see what is outstanding and what is being done about each thing mentioned. Some issues were outside the control of the hexagon developers as well as Daz. These issues were identified quickly and a work around issued. (The nvidia driver issues). The biggest negative to me is the Euro side of things. I know personally what its like being told that your side of the company is being left behind. It can twist your guts up for a while. However whatever each of these individuals decide to do next I am confident that they will do well once the shock subsides. Cheers Mike R __________________ I dont believe everything I think.

5th May 2006, 16:09	#11 (permalink)
Aine Vertex Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 11	Right Mike! It is pure marketting. Isn't only about the base dollars for any new members which buy into it. But the numbers of that member base applied properly could have stock prices and any possible invester money skyrocketing. Large market base figures can open doors. I have seen this done by many companies from the little mom and pop's to the super multi-complex woojoomawhozites with quite a bit of success. (seen it backfire too) Only in time will anyone be able to see if this was a good plan or not. __________________ P4 2.1, XP-SP2, G-force FX 5500 128, 1gb G4 700 (2.1), OSX (10.3.9), G0force2 MX 32, 512mb Laptop: P4 1.5, XP-SP2, Intel Extreme Graphics2, 512mb

6th May 2006, 14:09	#14 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	medeamajic I'd be willing to bet Daz sold 25000 copies of Hex2 in the first few days after the release. We'll never know for sure, that certainly isn't info Daz would give out. Why do you think Daz studio is free? So Daz can establish a large user base for it to sell it's content to. This marketing plan has worked so good for Daz that it was able to buy out Eovia. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Hex2.1 wont be a free upgrade. So daz now has a built in customer base for the 2.1{ with all the bugs fixed} upgrade. more money, more money...... __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

6th May 2006, 17:34	#15 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	Did you read what Sarissi wrote? She was going to get Hexagon anyway. She was going to buy it. Daz would have made more money. Many people want Hexagon and will buy it. People that never even heard of Daz want Hexagon and Carrara. Hexagon is not some cheesy Daz program that should be free. Both Daz and Carrara can sell on their own merits. I think Daz members should have received and upgrade price but $1.99 is giving it away. I think Daz would have done the same thing with Maya if they had bought it. Would you give away Maya just to get a bigger base or offer an upgrade price? Some of the users of Hexagon will never buy Daz models. I never have been a Daz club member.

6th May 2006, 22:59	#17 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	Who cares if Sarissi used Maya before and was also a Daz member??????? She will now know of Hexagon and Carrara thanks do Daz and could test out the demo. After testing Hexagon there is a good chance she would buy Hexagon. I had Carrara long before Hexagon but Eovia did not sell me Hexagon for $1.99. I tested out hexagon and liked it so I bought it. I bought Hexagon because it was a good product unlike Daz Studio. You do not have to give away Hexagon. Eovia never did yet many people bought it. I hope that this makes sense finally. Hexagon is not some piece of junk like Daz Studio. I down loaded Daz Studio but I do not use it because Poser works much better for me. I wanted to try Daz Studio out to see what it could do. Why sell something for $1.99 when people will pay $99.99 and say they got a great deal at $99.99?

6th May 2006, 23:51	#18 (permalink)
tyrell Spline Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 52	If you've been tracking my posts I never went to any extent of defending DAZ's action such as using Hex 2 as a bait to attract customers. I'm simply stating their possible marketing motive or philosophy why they did it the way they did. There has to be an explanation, right? Unless some DAZ rep comes over here and explains their side, we'll never going to know. All we can do is guess till we're blue in the face. I repeat in simpler terms. It's possible that they don't put that much value in selling software than they do in selling premade stuff. After all, they made tons of money out of it. Tons to buy a company! You and I can harp all we want about how wonderful Hexagon is and that it should have been sold on its own merit. But it seemed that they were not selling Hex, they were selling membership cards. They use it to attract more members to buy their dolls. Remember, they bought Eovia with the understanding that its userbase goes with it. In other words, they want people, millions of them to become platinum members. Members that will eventually buy their dolls, not Bryce, Hexagon, or Carrara. That's my theory. I hope I'm wrong.

7th May 2006, 00:48	#19 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	We can only speculate about Daz's method of marketing. I can only guess that many Daz members will terminate their membership after buying Hexagon. Why pay for models when you can build your own with Hexagon?

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