Questions and answers on the DAZ acquisition

[the_peculier]

Originally Posted by DanRoberts

well alot right now actually, I mean think about it .... look at all the negative reaction. Lets lay it out in some sort of order ...

1) Eovia ... was developing two products Carrera and Hex that were getting alot of attention from "creators" Pro and Hobbiest alike. Especially with Hex and to some degree with Carrera.

2) The Buzz was big in this area and alot of "creators" were jumping on board ... because ... not only is the software cool and capable. It was (over the last couple of years) really showing commitment to getting a "Pro" feature set at really nice price points.

3) The future only looked bright ... for "creators".

4) Now ... a company that speciallizes in "not creating" but selling things "that are already created", buys the company.

5) Add to all the above ... the "bazaar" like atmosphere of the company image and web presence. And previous developement issues with Bryce etc.

6) Add to that .... their company leader hasnt one dropped over here to say hello or address directly any of the concerns many of us have posted. While at the same time its a frigging party over in the Daz forums.

7) Add to that .... man .... so many things.

Put just those things all together ... and ... er ...well ... you can get a feel for "what the heck is up with u lot"

... quite abit actually.

If i'm getting increasingly ratty it's mainly due to reading other threads in this forum. And for that I am truly sorry.

Also, a lot of the negative comments seam to be based on either misinformation or a complete misunderstanding. How many times does it have to pointed out the Carrara Dev tema are now part of Daz? How many times does it require pointing out that Bryce was in an absolute mess when it was bought from Corel and it would take time for Daz to understand and fix it.

And what is really damn annoying is the post that states "Daz has one chance to get it right or i'm off" (paraphrasing). Eovia have updated Heaxagon 3 times since release and it still has some bugs that cause it to crash. These type of double standards are damn annoying.

Anyway.

Eovia sold, from the evidence given, becasue they were struggling to develop further. Would you really want it to fold and disappear?

Daz wants to move into the software market. They look after their customers and do listen. There will inevitabley be differences, these are unavoidable.

Now as to why Dan Farr hasn't dropped in here. Bear in mind this is a private persons forum and not Eovia's, why should he? Should he then visit every single forum that deals with Carrara and Hexagon? I will put a question to everyone who has brought this up, have you been to the Daz forums?

[marcovth]

What does Daz need to survive?
- Content to sell !
- A program to make content ... Hex.
- A good (nature) program to display content.

Edit: - A community to create content. I assume this was lacking too !

Bryce sucks & costs too much to develop, so they needed another one ... Carrara.

Daz made a good deal to survive. If I were CEO of Eovia, I wouldn't mind getting the money as well and enjoy the early retirement. The deal is done, make the best of it ... just give me Hex2 now so I can forget about it !

[Reactor]

And you could almost sing it- "Give Daz a chance!"

I think people need to relax a bit. At the end of the day, we're talking about buying a bit of software here. If Carrara went under completely, or Hex 2 vanished from the face of the earth, there'd be lots of other tools to choose from, and people would still be putting out their CG artwork, one way or another. It's hardly 'end of the world' type stuff. Things change, life goes on. Get over it, if you haven't already. I'm fairly sure the Daz guys understand by now that the Eovia teams are an important bunch of people, and that the community is a little uneasy about the way Daz has handled things in the past. Have your say (as I did) and then keep working on your art while you wait for the next version of Carrara or Hex 2. After all, isn't that what these tools are all about?

[Grendel]

Originally Posted by the_peculier

If i'm getting increasingly ratty it's mainly due to reading other threads in this forum. And for that I am truly sorry.

I will put a question to everyone who has brought this up, have you been to the Daz forums?

I have been there and it does not suit my tastes but the point is moot now that software I use will be there. I'll just handle it like a grocery store, get my stuff and leave.

I am sure some of the Eovia community could go on forever about why they don't like the merger but I believe you will go on forever with your views as well (since their is no Guiness record for the longest thread that I know of0 The future will be entertaining to say the least forum-wise.

[steama]

Originally Posted by Reactor

And you could almost sing it- "Give Daz a chance!"

I think people need to relax a bit. At the end of the day, we're talking about buying a bit of software here. If Carrara went under completely, or Hex 2 vanished from the face of the earth, there'd be lots of other tools to choose from, and people would still be putting out their CG artwork, one way or another. It's hardly 'end of the world' type stuff. Things change, life goes on. Get over it, if you haven't already. I'm fairly sure the Daz guys understand by now that the Eovia teams are an important bunch of people, and that the community is a little uneasy about the way Daz has handled things in the past. Have your say (as I did) and then keep working on your art while you wait for the next version of Carrara or Hex 2. After all, isn't that what these tools are all about?

I could not agree more.

[Tryll]

People invest with more than just money in these tools. The time involved in developing techniques, and a production pipeline is considerable with 3D tools. Changing 3D tools is something I've done a few times, and it is more frustrating a process than changing out any other form of software.

The issue is, Eovia only recently earned my respect with Hexagon and Hexagon2. Carrara has always been marginal in terms of being professional quality. I thought that Hex2 would pull Carrara 6 into being worthy of leaving Lightwave and C4D. DAZ, has never had my respect. Their stuff is OK, I suppose, but it is like "props." It isn't core functionality. While I imagine we'll see more included props, I'm not counting on more core, generic functionality coming from them.

I did visit the DAZ forums. Lots of posers, with poser avatars, talking poser... and they have never even heard of Carrara or Hexagon. Thousands and thousands of users, wanting to know how these new tools will be made to fit into their posing workflow. I'm sure that DAZ can only respond by making it so. I don't think the needs of the (apparently smaller) Eovia users will bear much weight on their decision of how to transform the product line. Why would it?

I think I can see where this is going. If you use 3D for fun, these DAZ products together will be a heck of a lot of fun. Seriously. But if you use it for work, well, they just aren't oriented to that.

[philebus]

Well, to date, DAZ has been props rather than functionality. I think the point of buying Carrara and Hex is to change that, they want to be about both. I don't think they spent all that money to make Carrara/Hex into Poser with knobs on - they want to expand into new areas of the market.

Poser/DAZ Studio have been a stepping stone for people who end up wanting to try the 'creation' apps - DAZ have clearly noticed and want in on that market also. Good move.

As for the comments about DAZ and EF peddling pornware, I'm sorry, that's just daft. The same could be said about cameras. Most professional photography is of this kind look at the newsagents - and not just at the top shelf, look at the lad mags (Esquire, Maxim and the like) and also at the women's monthly (Cosmopolitan, etc). They are all full of made up, sexy looking people, often in provocative poses, often not wearing a great deal. On the other hand, photography can be art. Go easy on the tools there - the software and the models are just that, the tools.

[Tryll]

Yep. I've no doubt me and my kids will have fun with the range of DAZ tools. The question is whether or not I'll be able to do the work that pays for them with those same tools.

We'll see. I'm ready to be surprised.

[Locki]

Originally Posted by the_peculier

Hmm, one question?

Why combine Hexagon and DazStudio if keeping carrara seperate? The only people who want Hexagon are modellers. I think it will just have a setup for rigging poser and studio figures.

Otherwise probably as good as guess as anything

You've said it : modellers are not the usual target for DAZ, a compagny selling pre-made models by douzains in a row. Modellers are creative people, living on emotions, who threaded a true emotionnal link with their tool and the original compagny that ciseled them. That's another reason we fear "pocket computer" hearted people.

[the_peculier]

I think the problem is that people are looking at Daz now, rather than where Daz are aiming to be. Carrara and Hexagon are two excellent tools that will elevate them in the 3D world. Why would they even begin to want to destroy them?

BTW, the continual reference to Poser and Daz as hobbiest/toys/kiddie stuff is wrong and is really one of the things bugging me about posts on other threads. I happen to know an ex-Disney artist that uses them in her work. And if it's good enough for her it's good enough for me.

A professional will use whatever tool suits the job best and will not have the attitude of "oh, that's just for hobbyists".

For me, the ease of use of Poser/Daz Studio to create posed figures, coupled with the power of Carrara's rendering and environmental capabilities, then add in Hexagon to create your own content quickly and easily and you will have a powerful package for both professional and hobbyists alike.

[Nichod]

This thread has gotten a little out of hand. I'd rather not lock the thread. But lets keep it civilized. And keep the facts straight.

As a recap.

1. Daz's website IS going to get redone to better suite the combined vision.
2. Bob is VP of Marketing and Sales and will have a big impact on the new vision of Daz.
3. Carrara developers are staying with Carrara and will also (as of now) control and develop Hexagon post 2.1.
4. Hexagon 2 is expected by months end.
5. People who have purchased Hex 1.1 within preorder time period will still be receiving Hex 2.0 as a free update.
6. People who have purchased Hex 2.0 will be receiving a special something.
7. Hexagon 2.0 should be available to purchase by week's end. With a special incentive.

Sorry if I missed anything. Please if you have relevant questions forward them to this thread: http://www.eovia3d.net/showthread.php?t=7306

[the_peculier]

Originally Posted by Locki

You've said it : modellers are not the usual target of "carpetbagger" like DAZ, a compagny selling pre-made models by douzains in a row.

Who makes the content they and other sites sell? (BTW, I'm one) So there is a market already there for a modelling program.

Daz would not have bought something to get rid of it.

How does buying Bryce, PoserPros and Eovia Corp in a period of three years earn them the title 'Carpetbaggers'? The most cost effective way of moving into new areas of a market is aquisition as you buy an already expereinced group of people (alright, this doesn't include the Bryce purchase as it was just the software) and already established software (which does include Bryce).

[Locki]

Everybody wanted a DAZ spokesman to talk on the site : I think we have him right from the beginning of the last 2 days, impersonnated as "the_peculiar". Lets' go guys ! Ask him questions.

Well, first of all, I often reedit my texts, cause after few minutes, I found them a bit arsh, so don't answer to them on the spur of the moment please : but understand, that I'm very, very dispointed by the deal for many personnal reasons, the least of them being fearing not having support any longer and be considered like a living "porte monnaie"/bank account forced to pay for each little bug fixing (let's say for minor versions, exemple : Bryce)

I will subscribe to H2 because, I'm deeply convinced I found at last the Tool I can understand and handle to "materialise" my thoughts and dreams (and I've tried many !). But I'm deeply skeptical about the roadmaps you describe. IMHO Hexagon will be integrated to Carrara at the end (already C5 is benefiting from Hexagon). I just hope so, because I have the intuition Hexagon won't live long in DAZ hands. It just doesn't fit to the nowadays DAZ path : selling more and more pre-made thingies and the soft to render them quickly. DAZ just cannot afford its users be able to create their own contents : it would go against the "sails" objectives.

But let's see if I'm right or not in the future.

[the_peculier]

Originally Posted by Locki

Everybody wanted a DAZ spokesman to talk on the site : I think we have him right from the beginning of the last 2 days, impersonnated as "the_peculiar". Lets' go guys !

Spell the name right. Just because I don't agree with posting anti-daz stuff without giving them a chance or based on erroneous information. You'd fit right in at Runtime RDNA and Renderosity.

[psaldari]

Originally Posted by Locki

Everybody wanted a DAZ spokesman to talk on the site : I think we have him right from the beginning of the last 2 days, impersonnated as "the_peculiar". Lets' go guys ! Ask him questions.

[Pete Exxtreme]

Locki > you've saved the day !!!

[philebus]

Of the people who buy DAZ content, very few are going to be tempted to make their own content. Those who do are already looking for and buying the programs to do it - I did. There are now a growing number of affordable programs to do the job, DAZ wants those sale also. This a an additional market to the content one, not a replacement, there will be little, if any, impact on content sales. The points is, has has already been made, that DAZ wants to expand its range products, not just grow the existing one.

[mykyl1966]

Well this buyout has sparked my interest in creating content myself. I read the best comment on the SIlo site regarding this buyout. The comment was along the lines of its amazing how many people develop psychic abilities and can suddenly see the future whenever a buyout happens. ;)

Cheers

Mike R

[Tryll]

I know. Kind of like the kooky idea some people had that Adobe would kill freehand after buying Macromedia.

<http://www.creative-toolbox.com/2006/04/26/is-the-writing-on-the-wall-adobe-offers-migration-help-to-freehand-users/>

[mykyl1966]

Whatever Adobe do or any other company has zero relevance to Daz or Eovia or Joe bloggs kindling sticks business down the road. Speculation is fine but outright negativity is plain stupidity and helps nobody other than people egos if by some chance they were right.

Daz has no competing applications in its arsenal therefore there can NEVER be a comparison between the buyout/mergers of Adobe or Autodesk etc. Freehand/Illustrator are competing apps. 3dsMax and Maya are also competing apps so the worries those users have when a buyout occurs are reasonable. Carrara is nothing like any of Daz owned apps and the same can be said for Hexagon. There are no competing apps suddenly coming together under the Daz umbrella. (Dont mention Bryce. . Thats not worth mentioning and never has been for years)

Mike R