Eovia To Make Announcement On April 25

[Grendel]

I realize not everyone has the same skill levels in some areas (I know I learn something new all the time), but since you have Hexagon(or any modeller) you must have realized that making your own content was worth your effort rather than just continuing purchasing it?

[Tashar59]

I feel I was taken. I just bought into Carrara 5Pro and Hex, not 3 weeks ago, to find that I just bought into bargin basement software for higher end price. It's not like this deal happened over night.

I'll tell you, if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

edit for spelling, still in shock.O_O

[Teyon]

This is nearly the old "bait and switch". I'm really annoyed no official word has come to us yet one way or the other. I refuse to be a platinum club member...I've never felt the need to do so before and I'm not going to pay for news I deserve to have already. The impression given at other sites by Daz is that Hex 2 isn't being released this month, which upsets me because I ordered Hex2 (thinking to give the program 1 more chance) since Silo wasn't due out for at least another few weeks to a month. Now it seems I may have been better off waiting for Silo and using the money for something else. No news, is not good news afterall...

[the_peculier]

Of course making your own models gives you a good feeling and worthwhile. That is not what I am saying. It is the belittling of other people that I have a problem with. If you actually browse the galleries of Daz, Renderosity et al and see the effort people go to, especially in postwork and then see it called 'kiddes' stuff you belittel and demean someone else's work and efforts. Sorry, but this is just plain wrong and actually very nasty.

[moonshot]

I'm not a pro yet and it's not too long a ago I made my start with DAZ-Software. I was thrilled by the possibilities and the ease. But I soon realized, not being able to model limits you totally. I could not do what I had in mind at all. And after all, it doesn't feel like being a creator when using bought models. There's nothing to say against beginners using premade models, as we all make our start more or less in this way. And nobody should discourage a beginner making their start by arrogant comments. On the other side it's not nice when forever-beginners try to impress without giving an honest statement about the pre-made contents they used. And even worse, sell their work at dumping prices. That spoils everything for those who went through the long process of learning, investing in a career they depend on for their living.

[KenSchae]

Originally Posted by Teyon

This is nearly the old "bait and switch". I'm really annoyed no official word has come to us yet one way or the other. I refuse to be a platinum club member...I've never felt the need to do so before and I'm not going to pay for news I deserve to have already. The impression given at other sites by Daz is that Hex 2 isn't being released this month, which upsets me because I ordered Hex2 (thinking to give the program 1 more chance) since Silo wasn't due out for at least another few weeks to a month. Now it seems I may have been better off waiting for Silo and using the money for something else. No news, is not good news afterall...

This is exactly what I did last week - bought Hex over waiting for Silo; and I agonized over that decision for a long time because I have been a Silo user.

I am having big buyer's remorse because DAZ will probably offer Hexagon for a much better deal than the Hex1/2 upgrade deal that I just purchased. I think I am much more upset about that than the logo that appears on the splash screen of the software.

[Teyon]

To be honest, as a pro, I've never fully understood the resentment the industry has for Poser users. So, if I get it right, we're supposed to hate anyone who "Takes a pre-made model, poses it, lights it, and renders it"...funny, that sounds like every lighting and animation department at every single CG studio in hollywood. Are we supposed to hate the lighting TD's because all they do is render a scene? What about the animators? In larger studios, it's rare that animators also make the models they use. Are they to be shunned also? Silliness.

I think the industry should stop blaming Poser and start educating its user base, so that we get less naked Poser characters doing nothing but being rendered and told they look great for it. It's that kind of thing that diminishes Poser and its clones in the eyes of the proffessionals, at the same time, however, if not for Poser, many in the industry wouldn't be where they are today. Having said that though, it's time Poser got more than a face-lift and instead got a total re-write so it's more intune with today's standards. Daz is trying to do this with Daz|Studio but they're still falling short in some areas. This probably explains, in part, their recent acquisition.

[koalaboy]

A few thoughts strike me, as I read these Poser tirades.

1) The worlds greatest photographers often just pressed a single button. Their artistic skill was finding the scene, not creating it.

2) The majority of these Poser scenes that are regularly dismissed, probably aren't intended to be appraised by 'Professionals'. They may well be someone enjoying the software they have, and posting the results - it's not done for your benefit.

3) If it's for money, you reach the goal in the most cost-effective way you can. If it's not for money, you reach it whichever way *you* want to.

4) Nobody but the artist themselves can dictate whether something is 'Art'. It would be unusual if everyone agreed on such a creative and emotive topic.

[KenSchae]

You know, not everyone who does any kind of computer art is a "Professional." There are a lot of us who are "Hobbyists" and are having fun with this. And yes, I purchased Silo3D v1 and now Hexagon, because I am interested in making my own stuff; but I don't want to make EVERYTHING for myself. Not to mention, I don't have that kind of time.

I am struck by the arrogance of some people around here. As I sit here, I am trying to think of a time when I had such an arrogant reaction to someone who made a web page with MS Front Page: the answer - never. I am a "Professional" web developer who digs deep into the code of web pages using Visual Studio as my development platform. I can't imagine a situation in which I would rip someone for building a web site with Front Page, or Word, or iWeb rather than to go out and spend $2000 on Studio Pro and code the thing in ASP.NET.

Now I might rip on someone who competes for my job/contracts who is using Front Page and selling his/her skills off at the same rates as me: but that is a competition thing. Which leads to my next thought; if you are a "Professional" making "Professional" money at this, then why are you using Hexagon/Carrerra rather than Maya, or 3DS, or XSI? It seems to me like this is choosing Visual Studio Express over Visual Studio Enterprise Edition.

[AlainK]

I kinda have a middleground approach on this one. For one thing, I've never bought a single pre-made model from any website selling them. Nor will I ever see myself buying one. I'm not into animation yet, but if necessity comes I might bite the bullet because of time constraints, as time is money. If that ever comes, I most likely won't care what others have to say. I will just take credit on the animation part and still be proud of it.

Yes, I would agree that it's not a good feeling using others' work. Just recently I mutilated a head model's ear from some guy's work who is kind enough to share it in another modeling app site. I used the ear and stitched it in mine. The sense of accomplishment was not there. I felt like I was cheating even if I spent seemingly endless time forming a well-proportioned head. I finally sat down and gave it all I've got in forming my ear.

At this point of my modeling skills, I could use other's work without feeling any incompetence because of the thought that I could do it if I wanted to. As a last word, I'm not going to demean anybody using premade models IF they're making money out of it. That in itself is a sense of accomplishment that you should be proud of.

[Teyon]

Ken, I'm pretty sure your post wasn't directed at me but, I will tell you what most pros would (and thus my confusion why they hate Poser), you use the right tool for the right job and you use what you know best. I have XSI Advanced on my PC, Along with Rhino, Amapi, Hex 1, Silo and a few others. I use the tool that gets the job done fastest. I will almost always make my own content (I say almost because the future is the future) but because I need to get work done as soon as I can, I don't have the luxury of being too attached to any one program. Especially as a freelancer, which I am. At LEGO, Maya and Rhino are king, at other studios I've worked with, it was Lightwave or XSI. Being able to be flexible is important.

Having said that, hobbyist or pro, if your work could be better, someone should help you to make it so. That's why I don't like the "I hate Poser" crowd. They do nothing to make the situation better. Educating Poser users so they can be better artists can only improve their experience both as a hobby and as a potential starting point for a career. If only more pros would begin to see that and if only more Poser users would accept it. Far too often at Renderosity, a critique is taken as pure trolling by the artist and we mods have to step in to calm everyone down. Posting your art anywhere opens it up for critque and this critique can be ignored by the artist or not but I think it should always be conisdered.

Back OT: If the purchase of Eovia by Daz results in a superior product than Carrara, Hex, Poser or Daz|Studio, than it was a good purchase. If it only results in more of the same, than in the long run, it may as wll not have happened at all.

[KenSchae]

Originally Posted by Teyon

Ken, I'm pretty sure your post wasn't directed at me

You are absolutely correct. I was not directing my comments at anyone in particular, just at the "air" of the comments as they come across to someone who is not terribly skilled (i.e., myself). I don't need my faced rubbed in the mud because I am not as skilled as someone who is doing this for money; and for no other reason than the software that I chose to use.

You make a great point about using the software that works for you at the moment. It is nothing but a tool; as is premade content.

[Teyon]

I agree (and hope to have some new content available soon).

[lemuse]

Im not sure what you are trying to say... but creative "artistic" work should not be purchased off a shelf that any monkey can use. I make all of my own models, textures.. etc. This is my creative tallent going into my artwork.. not Billy Bob's character with John Doe's textures and Sally's scene slapped together, then hitting one button to render out the scene and call it art.

I dont hate these people... but please, Eovia and spent the last 6 years developing this software to make it easier for true artists to create with. Why should any Eovia artist want a company like DAZ to buy this company (and we all know this is going to happen) and turn its product line into premade content render engines?

(My reply is to this subject matter as quoted above)

Well, contrary to this, there are some forums that find Carrara a beginner's software. That it violates the "anti-premade models" sentiment that is in hot debate here since it has the replicator to make many trees, for example, so that you don't have to create them one by one—the software does it for you. It also comes with pre-made terrains and objects. That makes it easy, which folks say they want it to be. But since it has pre-made content, does that make it a hobby software? I don't think so. Bryce, a recent DAZ product, doesn't even have presets like that! and yet it is criticized. In Bryce you build your scene mountain by mountain, tree by tree, but I don't think that constitutes being a true artist. In Carrara, and every other program, it is up to the user as to whether they will create from scratch. Or not. And what they create with the tools they have.

Yes there IS great accomplishment and pride in creating your own models, truly representing your own vision. However, it is also a huge vested time commitment and interest that not all people have. I've seen some incredible work and if the truth be told, the content might all have been bought or modified. I've also recognized work of a model inserted on a familiar bought background, but I'm sure to that person, they were probably proud of that first render too. So what if they are at the beginning stage at which everyone once was? Everyone has to start somewhere and ought to be encouraged, not criticized. Any app that fosters encouragement is doing its job. And, there's nothing wrong with fun.

A bought content debate is really is no different than one about clip art or stock photos. Granted, those items are vulnerable to whatever hands they get into, which was a big beef with desktop publishing, remember that one? But also, in the right hands, there can be some great things done with them too with a bit of vision and talent.

So, to wrap up my point, Carrara is a great software. It also has some of the features that DAZ and Poser are criticized for—ready-made models— and it has scene wizards. But that makes it no less great. Furthermore, how many of us use packaged shaders, or bought shaders, or use other things that are part of a software's ease of use? Or use Photoshop's filters/plug-ins rather than doing it the hard way? All software is meant to make your job easier, and that does not belittle the person choosing that method. Hey, I still make drop shadows the pre-plug-in way. I don't use masking alot; I touch up pixel by pixel. I've done it for so long that it is easy for me, but for some it would be stupid when there is an easier way. But I don't think that makes me more of an artist. I also use filters. But I don't think using them makes anyone less an artist. And I've done art for a living for over 15 years. I think these tools really are no different than premade anything; we use premade things everyday to make life easier, to get a job done quicker. I am thankful to have all the tools that are available today. In art school teachers had us sketch using live models. And landscapes. At least it was a learning tool to get us started. Otherwise, we could sketch sight unseen, or guess at it, which we can do too if we want. I daresay most if not all seasoned artists still continue the practice to reference and draw from a physical source as their springboard.

In fact, one could say that using software at all is similar to this debate of pre-made content. 20 years ago drawing, painting, paste-up and typesetting were done by hand. Now the software helps us out. Now we have undo. Now we have cut and paste, and everything else. We want easy software. So does that make us any less an artist?

[moonshot]

As a webdesigner I gave up, because of hearing always, "well this guy makes a website for 20% of your rate, etc...." Well that's not the whole reason. It's also beacuse 3D-Art is more thrilling, of course. But I hope, the price-dumping will not be the same in 3D someday. To answer your question Ken Schae, I opted for Car/Hex because of the price and the community. As soon as I am making profit, I could of course switch to C4D, Maya, etc., but I would rather wish that Carrara and Hexagon develop in my favor.

[Teyon]

As and aside, XSI (all levels) does come with pre-made models and rigs that you can use, thus making the debate even stranger. . I truly hope Hexagon gets released by the 30th though, because If it gets released anywhere near the time Silo gets released, I won't touch it...again...just like what happened when I got Hex 1. Despite my need to be flexible, Silo's workflow obliterates all else in my eyes. I actually have to pull myself away from Silo when I need to use XSI or Rhino for work. . So I really hope Hex gets released soon because I want to give it a fair shake in case I need it in the future for work.

[moonshot]

Hey Alain,
it's funny I just finished modelling my first ear, which I'm very happy with. Now I'm nearly done with the head (human). I hope the body is more straight-forward. Then comes the rigging, texturing, hair, etc. Knowing there are lot of premades, sometimes makes me feel stupid, like I am wasting my time. But on the other hand I must do it now to really gain the confidence that I can do almost anything.
Greets, Moonshot

[WillBellJr]

I can see this as a positive thing IF say these companies combined to make Poser / Carrara into a Motionbuilder kind of environment where as you get a primo character animation toolset along with a wonderfully powerful renderer.

My problem is, I was beginning to trust Eovia after only learning of them when Hex 1 was introduced. It NEVER feels good to see companies change up like this.

It reminds you how vunerable you (and your cash) are to these companies that sit behind the webpages with the "buy now" buttons - the internet makes it so easy to buy things (such as software) from companies which you have no information on what they're doing or where they're going.

I'm not saying or indicating that I feel that DAZ or Eovia are shady or misleading BUT it would be nice for a change to see something like this be positive for the customers in addition to the bank book holders...

I don't regret my preorder of Hex2, I could never feel bad about ordering a package that delivers what Hex2 claims it will, but I feel the timing of all this is just very bad.

Eovia has really stirred up the 3D modeling industry (well, IMO) with what they promised with Hex2. All the hoopla these past weeks have been about "the videos" and what can be done with these upcoming tools.

Now, just as we're all getting ready for a promised delivery of Hex2, we're told "Oh, guess what, we've been bought out..."

I mean, maybe it's just me, but that just doesn't sit well in my stomach. Now there's even talk or lets just say speculation of Hex2 not be delivered as we all hoped. I'm really praying that's not true!

I tell ya, it's really bad to finally have a huge spot light shining on ya (Eovia with Hex2) and to then have (IMO) an incontinence mishap while everyone is watching.

On a positive vein, I can see how having Poser, Carrara, Hex and even Bryce sharing code being a very positive, powerful thing.

Positive results from these teams could lead to a Vue AND Motionbuilder killer - lets just pray that's where these folks want to take this...

But for now, PLEASE, just send me a download link to Hex 2 as promised, that's all I'm really interested in for the next coupla weeks...

-Will

[AlainK]

A beautiful female head, to me, is the most difficult organic thing to do. Any slight disproportionality is not going to make it look right. There's just no allowances for any mistakes unlike monsters and monkeys or old people which are more on a freehand style. But I've finally made my first good-looking female head. Now I can feel that I can model any organic thing easily. Hey, moonshot, good luck.

[BilloX]

Please check the official announcement online at www.eovia.com
Thanks!
- Laurent