Painting in 301 - Polyloop

Couerl · 11th October 2007, 19:43

Okay, here's my first real Modo specific thread and I have more questions than answers as I try and wrap (unwrap) my head around this. I made a simple flower with simple petals and I made a new texture for the first leaf and unwrapped it and painted it. Piece of cake so far, but when I unwrap another leaf it just overlaps the first so I need to know how to get a new UV panel setup to unwrap my next leaf.

P.S. I already made a new texture for the next form, the model was just something I whipped up in hex real quick to practice with...

Couerl · 11th October 2007, 19:56

Here's where I'm at.

Question: Am I going to have to make every petal really small and fit it all on the one UV panel? Will that affect anything if I shrink them all down real small? I'm guessing it should not, but am not certain yet..

This is what I'm modeling..

Oh, I have another question on the paint bucket.. It seems even though I have not made UV maps or new textures for all 68 forms yet that when I use the paint bucket (fill), it covers the entire model and not just one leaf. Anyone any good at this yet? I know I'll get there one way or the other, but if anyone can point out the obvious to me I'd appreciate the help..

Piem · 11th October 2007, 20:55

Poly selection then
buton : Set material ?

I have to set an other new mat instead of the default mat

Couerl · 11th October 2007, 21:36

Grrrr.

jbshorty · 11th October 2007, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

Okay, here's my first real Modo specific thread and I have more questions than answers as I try and wrap (unwrap) my head around this. I made a simple flower with simple petals and I made a new texture for the first leaf and unwrapped it and painted it. Piece of cake so far, but when I unwrap another leaf it just overlaps the first so I need to know how to get a new UV panel setup to unwrap my next leaf.

P.S. I already made a new texture for the next form, the model was just something I whipped up in hex real quick to practice with...

Hi. What are you trying to do exactly? Are you trying to create a seperate UV map for each petal, and each one unwrapped individually but all petals are in the same mesh item? In that case, there are a few basic rules:

if unwrapping a portion of a mesh, then you must hide all other mesh faces before unwrap.
You can assign as many UV maps as needed to a single mesh, and you can show mutliple maps (or none of them) in the same UV view by clicking on the map names in the UV map list.

If you want to fill a portion of the object with color, then use in combination with the Lasso tool. And you must click the checkbox option to use falloff for that particular painting tool (airbrush, fill, etc...). This can work either in UV view or in the 3D view. It's quite straight forward, just pick a paint tool and the lasso. If you want to set a new lasso, you must deselect the brush tip and then you can make a new lasso selection. Reselect your brush tip and then you can resume painting...

shorty

Couerl · 11th October 2007, 23:45

Hi Shorty, each petal is it's own entity, it's not a single mesh.

Maybe you can give me a few tips on where to start..

p.S. I wanted to paint each petal individually to make it as realistic as I can and then just fill the pistles and big leaves for starters.

jbshorty · 12th October 2007, 01:01

The flower in your file is a single mesh item. You can use multiple UV maps, but i would just use one UV map for everything. Here's how i would handle the UV'ing for each portion:

Select the default "texture" UV map and delete it.
Create a new UV map
For all of the petals, i would use "Project From View" because they are reasonably planar meshes if viewed indiviudally. Select one complete petal at a time. Orient the camera to look straight at the petal. Pick the tool. Click in 3D viewport. Select those polys in the UV view, and drag them to the side. Repeat until all petals have been mapped in this way.
For the "twigs", i would use the "UV Peeler". Select one edge along the length of one single twig, then run the tool. Select those polys in UV space and drag them to the side. Repeat for all the twigs.
Now select all polys in the UV space, assign a selection set and hide them (don't forget this step!!!)
Now it's up to you if want to unwrap your pistles all together or in seperate unwraps. If unwrapping one by one, you must hide all but the one being unwrapped. After unwrapping I think it will take longer, but you will get better results. If you unwrap one by one, you can select the new uv faces, drag to the side, and then assign to same selection set as earlier steps. Then unhide everything, select a new thistle, invert/hde, and repeat until all is done. The selection set will help you select/hide the mapped polys between each step.
After all this, unhide everything, and try the Pack UV tool. If that doesn;t work, i suppose you need to do some handwork...

For the painting, i would just use one big texture (2K or maybe even 4K). Assign it to diffuse color, then create an instance of that image map and assign it to the SSS color. Beyond this is all up to your artistic skills (something i do not have, so i won't try to give any advice there!

)

Hope this helps...
shorty

Couerl · 12th October 2007, 01:05

I made them all seperate forms in Hex and even named them all. How do I import it to Modo so that it is not a single mesh? In 103 I think it all imported as a kind of layered system where I could work on each part individually.

Wim Scheenen · 12th October 2007, 01:42

If I understand you want all your items to appear as individual mesh items in Modo? I don't know if this can be done in Modo. For scenes with a few object meshes in one mesh layer I usually double click in Modo on each individual object mesh and cut-paste it into a new mesh layer. Of course this work around is not preferable in complex scenes.

jbshorty · 12th October 2007, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

I made them all seperate forms in Hex and even named them all. How do I import it to Modo so that it is not a single mesh? In 103 I think it all imported as a kind of layered system where I could work on each part individually.

hmmm, this is weird... I see the same thing happening with Silo files. Grouping objects also seems to make no difference. But Rhino files have no problems when importing to Modo. This must be a problem where Modo is looking for some object/grouping data that Hex is not writing to the OBJ file. Ask on the Modo forums, i think there must be a way around this. If not, you could always Cut/Paste the polys into a new mesh item. Or try importing from 103, then into 301?

Couerl · 12th October 2007, 09:11

Thanks a lot Shorty, you're a good man. I haven't had enough time to get up to speed on it and I think I'll try a couple things before I go bug them there. Maybe doing seperate materials (Brian/Nichod) suggested that and or UV mapping in Hex first and then importing... Modo doesn't have any import dialogue for .obj that I know of and I exported from hex with everything unchecked, so I dunno yet... I'll look again tomorrow,..

sailor-ed · 21st October 2007, 18:18

Couerl,

You can keep it as one mesh and give it several maps- one for each petal (shortys method)-or split them into individual meshes as Sheenen suggests. I have an easier time in the shader tree if I do it the latter way and create item masks for my textures. But I'm learning just like you!

sailor-ed · 22nd October 2007, 18:53

couerl,

I have played with your lotus.lxo file and I cannot get it to paint as I would expect it to. I am unsure whether I am making a mistake or there is some bug in the file. I would try the modo forum or report it as a bug. (obj imported file will not paint!)

If I have any luck I will let you know.

Couerl · 22nd October 2007, 18:59

Hi Ed, I can paint on it, the problem is that Modo doesn't have any import dialogue like Carrara or Hex which allows you to import things like this as seperate meshes. I made each petal it's own object in Hex so it would be easier to paint. Modo imports it as a single mesh and so even with a 4k UV map to cover all of the textures on a single unwrap it becomes more or less impossible to manage. Were the file a single charecter mesh it would be no problem, but multiple meshes like this aren't well suited for painting in Modo or perhaps any other app, not too sure about this yet..

sailor-ed · 22nd October 2007, 19:11

Well, that is curious. I must be doing something wrong. When I create another mesh (a sphere) within your lotus.lxo file I can paint on that but if I cut out one of the leaves and make it an idividual mesh I can't paint on it.

I do believe that to do what you want you must split this into separate meshes.

Sorry not to be of more help.

sailor-ed · 22nd October 2007, 20:01

Success! Here is what I did:

Open file and cut and paste one leaf into an separate mesh.

Choose Paint Utililtes and Add a Color Texture. (try to paint but can't)

Select leaf and open UV utilities. Select UV Projection Tool, select Planar, click on leaf, choose proper axis to give a top down map.

Select the Image Map that modo made for the color texture. Under its Texture Locator properties change the Projection Type to UV and the UV map to the planar one just created.

Select the mesh, and the image map in the item tree. Open the paint tools and it should work.

It is unfortunate that your model will not import as separate meshes but there is a script to do this for you on vertex monkey.

http://www.vertexmonkey.com/download...J_separate.zip

Hope this is leads you to a solution.

All the best,

Ed

Couerl · 22nd October 2007, 20:22

Hey cool, nice to know about the script.

I'm actually working on something else right now, but I'll come back and look at this tonight if I can. Time seems to be a big enemy and I'm already starting on Christamas gifts and stuff. :|

jbshorty · 22nd October 2007, 20:29

Hi Ed. it doesn't matter if it's one mesh or split into many meshes. One UV map for a whole mesh. Seperate maps for each area. Or mutliple mesh items sharing a single UV map. I just tested all of these situations using the example file. All of them work OK. So i think maybe you are skipping a step in the setup somewhere?

Hi Couerl. seeing as you don't want to use one big texture for the whole flower, I think the best thing is to leave all parts of the flower as one mesh and use multiple UV maps. First i would Cut/Paste the twigs into a new mesh. Then create seperate UV maps for each flower petal (or maybe assign 3 or 4 of them on each map to cut down the total # of maps). there's no reason it shouldn't work. Holler if you get stuck. I will try to help you through it.

shorty

sailor-ed · 22nd October 2007, 22:00

Thanks for the info shorty, nice to know its approachable from all "angles". Could you post a pic of your shader tree using one mesh and multiple maps?

Couerl · 23rd October 2007, 20:07

"First I would cut/paste..." Okay, here's where I'm stuck.

Hehe, just kidding. ;) I am cutting and pasting twigs and then I'll cut and paste the 4 major leaves to another new mesh and then the purple leaves I will leave alone and then the pistles into yet one last mesh, so I should end up with 4 meshes (I think).. ;)

i'll try that route since it seems most logical at the moment and let you know how it turns out.

Thanks guys..

11th October 2007, 19:43	#1 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Painting in 301 Okay, here's my first real Modo specific thread and I have more questions than answers as I try and wrap (unwrap) my head around this. I made a simple flower with simple petals and I made a new texture for the first leaf and unwrapped it and painted it. Piece of cake so far, but when I unwrap another leaf it just overlaps the first so I need to know how to get a new UV panel setup to unwrap my next leaf. P.S. I already made a new texture for the next form, the model was just something I whipped up in hex real quick to practice with... Attached Thumbnails

11th October 2007, 19:56	#2 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Here's where I'm at. Question: Am I going to have to make every petal really small and fit it all on the one UV panel? Will that affect anything if I shrink them all down real small? I'm guessing it should not, but am not certain yet.. This is what I'm modeling.. Oh, I have another question on the paint bucket.. It seems even though I have not made UV maps or new textures for all 68 forms yet that when I use the paint bucket (fill), it covers the entire model and not just one leaf. Anyone any good at this yet? I know I'll get there one way or the other, but if anyone can point out the obvious to me I'd appreciate the help.. Attached Thumbnails

12th October 2007, 01:01	#7 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,362	The flower in your file is a single mesh item. You can use multiple UV maps, but i would just use one UV map for everything. Here's how i would handle the UV'ing for each portion: Select the default "texture" UV map and delete it. Create a new UV map For all of the petals, i would use "Project From View" because they are reasonably planar meshes if viewed indiviudally. Select one complete petal at a time. Orient the camera to look straight at the petal. Pick the tool. Click in 3D viewport. Select those polys in the UV view, and drag them to the side. Repeat until all petals have been mapped in this way. For the "twigs", i would use the "UV Peeler". Select one edge along the length of one single twig, then run the tool. Select those polys in UV space and drag them to the side. Repeat for all the twigs. Now select all polys in the UV space, assign a selection set and hide them (don't forget this step!!!) Now it's up to you if want to unwrap your pistles all together or in seperate unwraps. If unwrapping one by one, you must hide all but the one being unwrapped. After unwrapping I think it will take longer, but you will get better results. If you unwrap one by one, you can select the new uv faces, drag to the side, and then assign to same selection set as earlier steps. Then unhide everything, select a new thistle, invert/hde, and repeat until all is done. The selection set will help you select/hide the mapped polys between each step. After all this, unhide everything, and try the Pack UV tool. If that doesn;t work, i suppose you need to do some handwork... For the painting, i would just use one big texture (2K or maybe even 4K). Assign it to diffuse color, then create an instance of that image map and assign it to the SSS color. Beyond this is all up to your artistic skills (something i do not have, so i won't try to give any advice there! ) Hope this helps... shorty

22nd October 2007, 19:11	#15 (permalink)
sailor-ed NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Well, that is curious. I must be doing something wrong. When I create another mesh (a sphere) within your lotus.lxo file I can paint on that but if I cut out one of the leaves and make it an idividual mesh I can't paint on it. I do believe that to do what you want you must split this into separate meshes. Sorry not to be of more help. Last edited by sailor-ed; 22nd October 2007 at 19:23.

22nd October 2007, 20:01	#16 (permalink)
sailor-ed NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Success! Here is what I did: Open file and cut and paste one leaf into an separate mesh. Choose Paint Utililtes and Add a Color Texture. (try to paint but can't) Select leaf and open UV utilities. Select UV Projection Tool, select Planar, click on leaf, choose proper axis to give a top down map. Select the Image Map that modo made for the color texture. Under its Texture Locator properties change the Projection Type to UV and the UV map to the planar one just created. Select the mesh, and the image map in the item tree. Open the paint tools and it should work. It is unfortunate that your model will not import as separate meshes but there is a script to do this for you on vertex monkey. http://www.vertexmonkey.com/download...J_separate.zip Hope this is leads you to a solution. All the best, Ed Attached Thumbnails

11th October 2007, 20:55	#3 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,640	Poly selection then buton : Set material ? I have to set an other new mat instead of the default mat

11th October 2007, 21:36	#4 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Grrrr.

12th October 2007, 01:05	#8 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	I made them all seperate forms in Hex and even named them all. How do I import it to Modo so that it is not a single mesh? In 103 I think it all imported as a kind of layered system where I could work on each part individually.

12th October 2007, 01:42	#9 (permalink)
Wim Scheenen Cube Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands Posts: 82	If I understand you want all your items to appear as individual mesh items in Modo? I don't know if this can be done in Modo. For scenes with a few object meshes in one mesh layer I usually double click in Modo on each individual object mesh and cut-paste it into a new mesh layer. Of course this work around is not preferable in complex scenes.

12th October 2007, 09:11	#11 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Thanks a lot Shorty, you're a good man. I haven't had enough time to get up to speed on it and I think I'll try a couple things before I go bug them there. Maybe doing seperate materials (Brian/Nichod) suggested that and or UV mapping in Hex first and then importing... Modo doesn't have any import dialogue for .obj that I know of and I exported from hex with everything unchecked, so I dunno yet... I'll look again tomorrow,..

21st October 2007, 18:18	#12 (permalink)
sailor-ed NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Couerl, You can keep it as one mesh and give it several maps- one for each petal (shortys method)-or split them into individual meshes as Sheenen suggests. I have an easier time in the shader tree if I do it the latter way and create item masks for my textures. But I'm learning just like you!

22nd October 2007, 18:53	#13 (permalink)
sailor-ed NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	couerl, I have played with your lotus.lxo file and I cannot get it to paint as I would expect it to. I am unsure whether I am making a mistake or there is some bug in the file. I would try the modo forum or report it as a bug. (obj imported file will not paint!) If I have any luck I will let you know.

22nd October 2007, 18:59	#14 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Hi Ed, I can paint on it, the problem is that Modo doesn't have any import dialogue like Carrara or Hex which allows you to import things like this as seperate meshes. I made each petal it's own object in Hex so it would be easier to paint. Modo imports it as a single mesh and so even with a 4k UV map to cover all of the textures on a single unwrap it becomes more or less impossible to manage. Were the file a single charecter mesh it would be no problem, but multiple meshes like this aren't well suited for painting in Modo or perhaps any other app, not too sure about this yet..

22nd October 2007, 20:22	#17 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Hey cool, nice to know about the script. I'm actually working on something else right now, but I'll come back and look at this tonight if I can. Time seems to be a big enemy and I'm already starting on Christamas gifts and stuff. :\|

22nd October 2007, 20:29	#18 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,362	Hi Ed. it doesn't matter if it's one mesh or split into many meshes. One UV map for a whole mesh. Seperate maps for each area. Or mutliple mesh items sharing a single UV map. I just tested all of these situations using the example file. All of them work OK. So i think maybe you are skipping a step in the setup somewhere? Hi Couerl. seeing as you don't want to use one big texture for the whole flower, I think the best thing is to leave all parts of the flower as one mesh and use multiple UV maps. First i would Cut/Paste the twigs into a new mesh. Then create seperate UV maps for each flower petal (or maybe assign 3 or 4 of them on each map to cut down the total # of maps). there's no reason it shouldn't work. Holler if you get stuck. I will try to help you through it. shorty

22nd October 2007, 22:00	#19 (permalink)
sailor-ed NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 141	Thanks for the info shorty, nice to know its approachable from all "angles". Could you post a pic of your shader tree using one mesh and multiple maps?

23rd October 2007, 20:07	#20 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	"First I would cut/paste..." Okay, here's where I'm stuck. Hehe, just kidding. ;) I am cutting and pasting twigs and then I'll cut and paste the 4 major leaves to another new mesh and then the purple leaves I will leave alone and then the pistles into yet one last mesh, so I should end up with 4 meshes (I think).. ;) i'll try that route since it seems most logical at the moment and let you know how it turns out. Thanks guys..

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