Mac Woes..

[dooki]

OK, folks. I gotta do this. I'd like hear from you Mac users? How's the upgrade going? Can you share anything regarding the graphic cards? What other issues?? I am sending in my bug reports but to get things started here's one I have but haven't read in this forum:

- iBook= The shortcut view keys (2,4,5,6) do not work, well they work with CAPS on, but then you loose other functions.
- Also, the hot key for the sub-D (smooth) function. Where is it? On the PC it's "page up/page done." This does not work on my laptop.
- Lastly, when I want to paint I try to apply a material to my obj. My computer hangs, this might be a RAM issue though HEX 1.2 works just fine.

Your thoughts??

-Dooki

[vagula2002]

Hi dooki,

I'm using Mac and I have a lot of problems with Hex2.

1. All Gizmos generate a material except UV-unfold so I couldn't get painting to work on unfolded models. I tried all the workflows I could think of but I can't get it to work.
2. Working in UV-mode turns Hex2 in a crashaholic.
3. AO and shadows look like atari2600 graphics on my GF6800GT. (Oh no, too much credit, I mean pong)

I could go on but I need to do some things at my day job. My system specs are in my signature.

[nhel2001]

I have lot's of problems too.
1. AO snapshot doesn't work like you said.
2. Lot's of crashes when trying to join curves.
3. Rotating the viewport pass the 180 degrees causes the screen to flicker and everything to mirror. This happens all the time.

Reported all of these to the DAZ bug site except the second one.

My specs are: iMac G5, 2.1 GHz, 1.5GB RAM, ATI Radeon X600 XT 128MB.

[Aunty Betty]

This makes interesting reading: Here we have G5 owners with good graphics cards plagued by enough problems to render Hexegon2 too unreliable to depend on for a solid working modeler.

Perhaps I will hold off updating any graphics cards for my G4 untill such issues are cleared up.

[vagula2002]

Yep, It's a bit easy for the develper to say your Mac is too old.
Also it's a bit easy to say OSX is not good at OpenGL.

I think they need too go Cocoa instead of the old carbon.

[psaldari]

Originally Posted by vagula2002

Also it's a bit easy to say OSX is not good at OpenGL..

No, it cannot say this, see here:
http://www.eovia3d.net/showthread.php?t=7125
with new cinebench tiger wins (ok, only for a bit, but win)

[Thomas]

Programing in carbon or cocoa won't change anything at all... (on mac, if you have problems, don't forget to unable the VBO in the display>advance preference panel)

[vagula2002]

I already chanced that last sunday and yes it is faster. yesterday I had this model build up from 4.475.960 poly's and it was still workable. But it doesn't make the program more usefull. Not all problems are related to graphic cards.

I think Hex2 can be put on ice until the bugs get fixed. (for Mac that is)
Too many problems with it to be on the market.

Just an opinion.

[dooki]

I read in another thread that it seems they didn't have enough beta testers for Mac. This might be the case. HEX 2 does feel like a beta (or Alpha). I REALLY like working with HEX but I too will put HEX2 on hold and just work with HEX1.2 for now.
I have the DAZ bug form bookmarked up at the tool bar. I'm tired of hitting it! At some point I feel like saying "look, it all sucks right now. Let us know when you have beta tested on a mac."

I agree with others that there is something beyond the graphic requirements. There are functions that worked smooth in v1.2 that are failing now in v2.0.

Having said that, the biggest issue for me, and one that I don't think be fixed, are the graphic requirements. Again, I cannot understand how is it that I can run Zbrush on an emac with no loss in quality? Do you mac guys remember that kids program "snapfish" or "sculp-fish," anyway it was an a kids app that would let you sculpt with paint strokes just like ZB and animorphium. HEX2...why??? I just don't get it!!!

-dooki

[Khris]

Originally Posted by dooki

Also, the hot key for the sub-D (smooth) function. Where is it? On the PC it's "page up/page done." This does not work on my laptop.
-Dooki

On my powerbook (last version G4, just before the MacBook Pro intel), there is a "fn" key, bottom left (left of ctrl, bottom of shift). Using it with arrows keys simulate page up/down and works for smoothing.

However, AO is _NOT_ working, with whatever hex 2 opengl preferences set (no optim at all, no antialias, no double side lighted, nothing...). From what is written here (http://www.eovia3d.net/showthread.php?t=7467), I have yet to see one apple configuration where AO works...

[Khris]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Programing in carbon or cocoa won't change anything at all...

Sorry, but this is not totally true.

It's true that using Carbon or Cocoa won't change anything about OpenGL and related bugs. It's also true that it won't change anything about the tools and their functionnalities themselves.

However, using (and derivating) Cocoa objects instead of using Carbon functions is a good way to ensure a far better user interface experience, especially about menus, controls, windows, keyboard shorcuts and keyboard mapping, etc...

There is for example a bug on mac about highlighted menus (some menus stay highlighted when desselected, some sub-menus stay opened when they should close, and so on) (those bugs have been sent to daz support). Those bugs would not have happened with Cocoa object. And it's not because you're subclassing Cocoa object that you have to use the "Aqua" user interface. You could get the same graphical user interface with the same graphical controls, but using the pre-coded (and tested) logic of Cocoa controls.

Just my 2 cents advice here...

[Thomas]

I was speaking about openGLs and the bugs related in the message. And switching to xcode is the next step (Mactel..)
And for the user interface, talk to wxwidgets ;)

For information, Zbrush use a 3D software engine and not an openGL. I'm waiting to see what Silo will be able to do

[tuckersaur]

It plain doesn't work well with openGL on Mac. I have a very nice spec machine: dual 2.3 GHZ G5 with the top of the line radeon X850XT graphics card and I have all the same problems.

I set up a model to paint a bump map, create shader domain, create material, create uvs. I grab the brush and load up a cool alpha to paint on my 2048 bump map. The brush starts painting invisible things on my test sphere. I have to hit validate to see my changes actually apply. Obviously that is not how its supposed to work. Other times it starts just painting garbage out of the graphics buffer on to the sphere.

I've done a lot of beta testing in my life. Beta is what we have on the Mac right now.

Hex 1.x works flawlessly on this machine. IT is definitely a hex 2 mac problem. I didn't pay to be a beta tester. I've paid my dues in that realm. This is just basic openGL garbage happening on the Mac.

Also window settings are not being remembered. I can dock palettes, close down hex 2 cleanly, and relaunch - all the palettes I just docked are gone. Even resetting prefs doesn't help. This is basic UI housekeeping stuff.

The app shipped with the materials and shader domain palettes undocked, but if you go to list of open windows the app shows them both checked (as if they are launched and visible) but they are nowhere to be found. you have to check and uncheck them again to get them to show up. But then when you dock them they just disappear to the same state the next time you use the app. I saw this kind of sloppy UI housekeeping a long time ago during the Bryce2 beta. On the Mac side, the app looks like it was rushed to market. The fact that the UI doesn't ship in a clean startup state is very much proof of this.

I've had no crashes, but sometimes it hangs. Once during import of a small obj file.
But without the realtime graphics feedback during brushing its no good to me. Even when I turn off the transparency and cull backfaces features the graphics don't work for me. It just lets me paint away and I don't see what I created until I hit validate.

Please fix this guys. Hex 1 was such a star app on the Mac and Hex 2 is right now a big disappointment.

Scott

[nhel2001]

On the Daz Bug Report page, related to my bug report with the AO issue, Nathan asked me if I tried updating my card. Is there a way of updating the video dirvers on Mac's that I'm not awre of? Maybe he is suggesting that I should change the card itself.

----
iMac G5 2.1 GHz, 1.5GB RAM, ATI Radeon X600 XT 128MB.

[Thomas]

tuckersaur: switch from VBO to display list
nhel2001: you can't change the graphic card on iMac...

[tonytrout]

When is Hex 2.1 coming out?

[Thomas]

For this kind of question, the best is to ask DAZ !

[tonytrout]

Who is the face of Daz?

[Thomas]

Use their contact form on their website, it will be better I think !

[tonytrout]

Maybe then I find out