Release Date Firm! - Page 2 - Polyloop

mikeha · 27th April 2006, 03:58

Personally I don't care for any Poser related content, but I noticed that Daz's site does have non-Poser stuff like XFrog stuff, Total Textures V8 (Vehicle Textures), and Lightwave. I think I'll order the Total Textures v8, those guys make great texture CDs. As long as the voucher is good for that, and not just select items or something.

Naes3d · 27th April 2006, 04:19

The sad thing is DAZ is going to lose customers from sheer ignorance and snobbery. Thinking about this fact though, I find it hard to determine whether this is a good or a bad thing. Ignorant/arrogant currency spends the same as any other...

laughingnome · 27th April 2006, 04:40

i agree with that Naes,

stu

BluesDragon · 27th April 2006, 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by laughingnome

"last time i looked guys this was a modeling forum not a Daz / Poser one"

"i can repeat myself as many times as i like last time i looked bud just as you can plug Daz and and your products as many times as you want "

stu

I didn't say you couldn't, just you didn't have to.

Looking at both statements you made in your previous posts, which one is it now?

I have nothing against you or anyone else. Everyone is free to think and say anything they want (keeping with the forum rules of course).

I am not "plugging or selling" DAZ or it's products, just providing info that people asked for in the thread. I could care less if people here buy anything from DAZ or not or even visit the DAZ site. It is everyone's choice.

If anything, here or at DAZ, I have "sold and plugged" Eovia and Hexagon to people more than anything I have ever done for DAZ. I don't think I have even mentioned DAZ in all my posts here before the sale. Go ahead, check my posts here. I am pretty sure I am correct.

I won't apologize for trying to put a positive spin on this situation, and attempting counter some the negative and sometimes inaccurate comments/info coming from members here. Am I happy with the selling of Hexagon and Carrara? I don't know yet, only time will tell. But I am willing to give it a chance and make the best of it, mostly because I can't make DAZ give Eovia US back. I can't change it, so I will just deal with it the best I can.

This whole "Us against Them" attitude here I find disappointing. It is not helping the situation and is not reflecting well on the Eovia community. I thought from my experiences here over the last 8 months or so that the people here were more polite and professional than that. It sure seemed so.

Personally, given the choice of taking the high road or the low road, I'll take the high road every time I can. THAT is my choice.

But like I said... think, do and say whatever you want. It is your choice and your right.

I just think everyone should at least TRY to get along. DAZ and Eovia are in bed together whether we like it or not and we can't change it.

I honestly wish you and everyone involved, in whatever way, all the best and respect their personal decisions. I was just hoping that same courtesy was going to be extended by all the members here.

Cheers.

Steve

Naes3d · 27th April 2006, 04:53

In fairness to everybody, what is going on now is to be expected. DAZ knew what perceptions people had of them when they bought the software. If anybody was interested in purchasing Hex 2 when it came out before this announcement should still be interested. It is after all the same program.

My only hope is that DAZ makes masterful use of fractions (as they did with DAZ|Studio before it went to version 1) so they can take full advantage of the contract that keeps the same developers til 2.1.

ronjurman · 27th April 2006, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by laughingnome

last time i looked guys this was a modeling forum not a Daz / Poser one.
shape of things to come i think.
Daz can keep their platinum card and their membership for me.
things are going downhill rapidly here already as far as i can see.
personally ill be glad when they put their own forums up at the Daz site so i can advoid them.
stu

Stu,

I agree.

I pre-ordered Hex 2, and as a Hex and Carrara owner going back to Ray Dream days, I feel saddened by DAZ's shallow and cheesy 'content and club' approach. I hope they gain some semblance of professionalism from a top notch Eovia crew.

rj

Naes3d · 27th April 2006, 05:11

Is it just me or is it true that those people who are spitting all this venom towards DAZ are doing far more damage to Carrara and Hexagon than DAZ has yet to do?

If you live in the US (and some other countries) you ought to know what negative impact doom saying speculators can have on a product or commodity. You can thank them every time you put gas in your car.

If you ever had any faith in Carrara, you should at least wait until DAZ screws up before you go about telling the world that is what they are going to do.

The people in charge of Carrara's development are the same as before, and it is that team that gave you the software you claim to want to see survive that you are hurting with these type of comments. You haven't even given DAZ a chance to fail.

IMO, if Carrara and Hexagon die, based on what I see, it won't be DAZ's fault.

ronjurman · 27th April 2006, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluesDragon

...

Am I happy with the selling of Hexagon and Carrara? I don't know yet, only time will tell. But I am willing to give it a chance and make the best of it, mostly because I can't make DAZ give Eovia US back. I can't change it, so I will just deal with it the best I can.

...

Cheers.

Steve

Steve,

I have always greatly appreciated your posts, and, like you, am willing to give this merger a chance. But DAZ needs to take a more professional approach with Carrara and Hexagon, or risk an awful lot of fallout, and that will be their fault.

rj

ronjurman · 27th April 2006, 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naes3d

Is it just me or is it true that those people who are spitting all this venom towards DAZ are doing far more damage to Carrara and Hexagon than DAZ has yet to do?

If you live in the US (and some other countries) you ought to know what negative impact doom saying speculators can have on a product or commodity. You can thank them every time you put gas in your car.

If you ever had any faith in Carrara, you should at least wait until DAZ screws up before you go about telling the world that is what they are going to do.

The people in charge of Carrara's development are the same as before, and it is that team that gave you the software you claim to want to see survive that you are hurting with these type of comments. You haven't even given DAZ a chance to fail.

IMO, if Carrara and Hexagon die, based on what I see, it won't be DAZ's fault.

Naes3d,

If you've ever dealt with Amway (or other MLM), you know that the way something is sold can be even more important than what is being sold.

Best Regards,

rj

tyrell · 27th April 2006, 05:37

I repeat, give DAZ a chance. After all, IT'S STILL YOUR MONEY. However, before buying any future versions of Carrara and Hexagon, don't go for hype. TRY the DEMO first. And if it is not up to par with your expectations DON'T BUY IT. As simple as that. To me, CARRARA VERSION SIX WILL THEIR BIGGEST TEST. And if they screw up with this one, you will know immediately what is coming next.

I'm not even sure whether downloading demos will be as easy as it is with Eovia.

Naes3d · 27th April 2006, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronjurman

Naes3d,

If you've ever dealt with Amway (or other MLM), you know that the way something is sold can be even more important than what is being sold.

Best Regards,

rj

I can agree with that statement. It's part of the reason I don't want anything more to do with Caligari until they shape up.

My dealings with DAZ have been limited to the fact that I got DAZ|Studio free and purchased some of the plugins that go with it (when I was deciding if I wanted to stick with Poser or switch). I didn't notice anything foul or underhanded when I dealt with them, so I am having a hard time understanding the hate.

Wingnut · 27th April 2006, 06:19

Would I cancel my pre-order of hex 2? Not a chance, I'm new to 3D software and I can say that my knowlege of Hex 1.2 is about 2.5 out of a posible 10. The new version looks absolutley outstanding. It will be able to do everything and more that I would like to do, so even if it goes downhill from here, I can probably amuse myself with it for many years to come without ever bying another up-grade. By the time I have mastered Hex 2 and C5 maybe maybe Autodesk will have goubled up Daz and everyone else in the 3D world, so no reason to panic folks , sit back and enjoy Hex 2.

BluesDragon · 27th April 2006, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronjurman

Steve,

I have always greatly appreciated your posts, and, like you, am willing to give this merger a chance. But DAZ needs to take a more professional approach with Carrara and Hexagon, or risk an awful lot of fallout, and that will be their fault.

rj

Thank you.

I totally agree that DAZ needs to "step up". Eovia outclasses DAZ by a huge margin IMHO. I really believe that part of this purchase is DAZ trying to do just that. I sure hope so.

DAZ's sale of models and not being totally dependent on "Program Sales" will hopefully allow them to keep Hexagon and Carrara alive and moving forward in a market that is getting more crowded and prices are falling. I also think that it is a way for Hexagon and Carrara to increase market share by adding a lot of new users. DAZ has a LARGE customer base of 3D junkies with money to spend. Not just "clip artists" but modelers of all levels as well. We'll see.

Am I concerned? You bet I am, very. Hexagon is such a great product. I would have preferred to have Hexagon stay with Eovia. No doubt. DAZ's software development is NOT the level of Eovia and I am certainly glad that the team is staying on, at least for a while. I am hoping it can be made more permanent. I have seen posts here stating they are considering it and it really gives me hope they can work something more lengthy out at least.

It would be a GREAT move on DAZ's part IMHO. If DAZ screws this up I will extremely pissed and be one of the louder squeaky wheels. I HAVE squeeked and believe it or not they DO listen. Some of my requests for improvements are in the works, unfortunately it DOES take a while.

I bought Hexagon and modo to create my own models rather than purchasing them.

Eovia and EVERYBODY here has been so great and helpful I can't express enough how grateful I am and happy I have been to be part of such a great community. I can't stress that enough.

I am a member of BOTH groups. I am just trying to be helpful where I can in return with information I know. I'm sorry if people are taking it wrong. It is NOT my intention to "sell" DAZ to anyone.

I actually agree with a lot of what the community here is saying, I just don't particulary like the WAY it is being said.

All the doom and gloom, bashing and name calling is to be expected I guess, it's disheartening and very depressing. but I know feelings are running a bit hot right now, so I am trying not take it personally and understand.

It's a shame that what should be such a exciting time everyone has been anxiously waiting for with the release of Hex2 has turned into such a bloody mess.

It's really sad and I wish is was different.

So I will just hang on, hope for the best , see what happens and make my decisions accordingly (and have a backup plan or two

).

Cheers,

Steve

ronjurman · 27th April 2006, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naes3d

My dealings with DAZ have been limited to the fact that I got DAZ|Studio free and purchased some of the plugins that go with it (when I was deciding if I wanted to stick with Poser or switch). I didn't notice anything foul or underhanded when I dealt with them, so I am having a hard time understanding the hate.

No hate here, Naes3d.

I just don't think much of DAZ's PC club approach (what if Caligari or Eovia had started charging you for 'membership' for what you were getting for 'free', after having already purchased their products, I'd be incensed), and DAZ's web site gives newcomers the feeling they just walked into an adult bookstore down in the industrial district (not exactly up to the standards of, say, SoftImage, or Maxon, or NewTek, or Luxology, or Autodesk, or Nevercenter, or Eovia, or even e-frontier), and I guess I am less than thrilled that the superb Eovia Europe team is basicly just being let go (I know, they're on contract, for the next month or so, anyway), after the awesome job they just did with Hexagon. It's just such a total let-down.

As a DAZ customer (by virtue of having tried out DAZ|Studio), I find their business approach rather cheesy, and I've already shut off all of DAZ's regular bulletin emails, tossed their freebie vouchers in the trash, and generally avoid their website, and my experience with them now goes back more than a year. I have Bryce 5 and somewhere on the 'shelf' DAZ|Studio (which is really a quite decent program), and of course DAZ has Mimic, and I'm sure that they can provide some useful technology and funding for Carrara and Hexagon to make them better, so I am not giving up hope on either Carrara and Hexagon (especially with my respect for the Eovia US team), or even DAZ (quite yet, anyway).

My hopes are that Eovia and the Eovia user-base (you, me, and others) can impress upon DAZ the need for a more professional approach (like Eovia had, and like SoftImage, and Maxon, and NewTek, and ...) to doing business, to better represent a professional 3D software organization.

Best Regards,

rj

Naes3d · 27th April 2006, 08:27

It might be a smart thing for DAZ to maintain a separate website for their Carrara and Hexagon softwares so the don't get lumped in with the other things. i think for what they were selling before the acquisition the 'club approach' was appropriate to the market they were catering to.

I agree that Carrara and Hex need to be presented more traditionally than the user created content they serve. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they knew this.

I think it's better to hear solutions and suggestions presented than to just hear the opinions stated plainly as if they were fact like so many doom sayers are spreading about the net.

ronjurman · 27th April 2006, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naes3d

It might be a smart thing for DAZ to maintain a separate website for their Carrara and Hexagon softwares so the don't get lumped in with the other things. i think for what they were selling before the acquisition the 'club approach' was appropriate to the market they were catering to.

I agree that Carrara and Hex need to be presented more traditionally than the user created content they serve. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they knew this.

I think it's better to hear solutions and suggestions presented than to just hear the opinions stated plainly as if they were fact like so many doom sayers are spreading about the net.

Totally agree. Thanks Naes3d,

Best Regards,

rj

andywright · 27th April 2006, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naes3d

It might be a smart thing for DAZ to maintain a separate website for their Carrara and Hexagon softwares so the don't get lumped in with the other things. i think for what they were selling before the acquisition the 'club approach' was appropriate to the market they were catering to.

I agree with this. Much of the Daz content was lower cost commodity material and the club aproach was right for that. When people invest the money (and time) carrara Pro plus plugins etc cost, they can expect a better service to be included in that cost. Hopefully they will understand that and hang onto their customer base upgrading to new versions..which in the end is the only way they will get their investment back on carrara and hexagon (they don't just want to sell it to us once any more than Eovia did

)

In the meantime, having tried a range of other programs and having Lightwave / Vue etc, I still feel I made the right choice in that Carrara and Hexagon are great programs in their current versions...and I don't feel I made a mistake buying them and I will give Daz the chance to demonstrate whether they can continue to develop them in the direction that Eovia was taking them

Hopefully this Forum will calm down once the dust settles because as said elsewhere, it was one of the main reasons I was attracted to carrara, and has always felt a welcoming place with friendly responses to questions that (to some) may seem stupid from newbies such as myself. Recently, I have seen the first bad feeling between some members which taints that atmosphere.

Those of us who jumped on the Carrara / hexagon bandwagon still need that friendly (its ok to ask stupid questions atmosphere) support if we are to continue developing new skills

twovales · 27th April 2006, 12:19

[offensing message]
Twovalves has been banned from this forum. First user to be banned on Eovia3D.net...

Thomas · 27th April 2006, 12:26

Twovalves. Please, stop this kind of words here. I remove your thread, becasue I recieve 3 abuse messages about this, and after reading it, I can only agree.
Also, edit your last post. I don't want to ban you (and you will become the first), I think everybody can give its opinion.. but not like that.
First and last warning.

BluesDragon · 27th April 2006, 12:31

HUH?

27th April 2006, 04:40	#23 (permalink)
laughingnome stu Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 909	i agree with that Naes, stu __________________ just trying to cut down the pain threshold AMD2.4 dualcore 4 gig ram, 9400GT ,WinXP Home

27th April 2006, 12:19	#38 (permalink)
twovales Boulet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 32	Why? [offensing message] Twovalves has been banned from this forum. First user to be banned on Eovia3D.net...

27th April 2006, 12:26	#39 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	Twovalves. Please, stop this kind of words here. I remove your thread, becasue I recieve 3 abuse messages about this, and after reading it, I can only agree. Also, edit your last post. I don't want to ban you (and you will become the first), I think everybody can give its opinion.. but not like that. First and last warning. __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

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27th April 2006, 03:58	#21 (permalink)
mikeha Vertex Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 18	Personally I don't care for any Poser related content, but I noticed that Daz's site does have non-Poser stuff like XFrog stuff, Total Textures V8 (Vehicle Textures), and Lightwave. I think I'll order the Total Textures v8, those guys make great texture CDs. As long as the voucher is good for that, and not just select items or something.

27th April 2006, 04:19	#22 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	The sad thing is DAZ is going to lose customers from sheer ignorance and snobbery. Thinking about this fact though, I find it hard to determine whether this is a good or a bad thing. Ignorant/arrogant currency spends the same as any other...

27th April 2006, 04:53	#25 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	In fairness to everybody, what is going on now is to be expected. DAZ knew what perceptions people had of them when they bought the software. If anybody was interested in purchasing Hex 2 when it came out before this announcement should still be interested. It is after all the same program. My only hope is that DAZ makes masterful use of fractions (as they did with DAZ\|Studio before it went to version 1) so they can take full advantage of the contract that keeps the same developers til 2.1.

27th April 2006, 05:11	#27 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	Is it just me or is it true that those people who are spitting all this venom towards DAZ are doing far more damage to Carrara and Hexagon than DAZ has yet to do? If you live in the US (and some other countries) you ought to know what negative impact doom saying speculators can have on a product or commodity. You can thank them every time you put gas in your car. If you ever had any faith in Carrara, you should at least wait until DAZ screws up before you go about telling the world that is what they are going to do. The people in charge of Carrara's development are the same as before, and it is that team that gave you the software you claim to want to see survive that you are hurting with these type of comments. You haven't even given DAZ a chance to fail. IMO, if Carrara and Hexagon die, based on what I see, it won't be DAZ's fault.

27th April 2006, 05:37	#30 (permalink)
tyrell Spline Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 52	I repeat, give DAZ a chance. After all, IT'S STILL YOUR MONEY. However, before buying any future versions of Carrara and Hexagon, don't go for hype. TRY the DEMO first. And if it is not up to par with your expectations DON'T BUY IT. As simple as that. To me, CARRARA VERSION SIX WILL THEIR BIGGEST TEST. And if they screw up with this one, you will know immediately what is coming next. I'm not even sure whether downloading demos will be as easy as it is with Eovia.

27th April 2006, 06:19	#32 (permalink)
Wingnut Polygonal Boolean are Evil! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 97	Would I cancel my pre-order of hex 2? Not a chance, I'm new to 3D software and I can say that my knowlege of Hex 1.2 is about 2.5 out of a posible 10. The new version looks absolutley outstanding. It will be able to do everything and more that I would like to do, so even if it goes downhill from here, I can probably amuse myself with it for many years to come without ever bying another up-grade. By the time I have mastered Hex 2 and C5 maybe maybe Autodesk will have goubled up Daz and everyone else in the 3D world, so no reason to panic folks , sit back and enjoy Hex 2.

27th April 2006, 08:27	#35 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	It might be a smart thing for DAZ to maintain a separate website for their Carrara and Hexagon softwares so the don't get lumped in with the other things. i think for what they were selling before the acquisition the 'club approach' was appropriate to the market they were catering to. I agree that Carrara and Hex need to be presented more traditionally than the user created content they serve. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they knew this. I think it's better to hear solutions and suggestions presented than to just hear the opinions stated plainly as if they were fact like so many doom sayers are spreading about the net.

27th April 2006, 12:31	#40 (permalink)
BluesDragon Box modeling Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 243	HUH?