HEX 2 Manual - Polyloop

mon_stdnt · 23rd March 2006, 03:22

Will there be manual that we can order like Carrara? or its just a pdf file.

Cause for the hexagon 1 pdf file I actualy printed every single page and tried binding them, but it came out messy.

bwtr · 23rd March 2006, 04:52

I agree. Hexagon 2 deserves a proper printed manual --even if we have to pay!!! I treasure my Carrara 3 and 4 manuals. Hexagon, with all it's "quirks" for newcomers, needs a REAL book which you can sit back and quietly digest and even make notes in!
Good as they may be, pdfs and quicktime movies are NOT for the likes of me.

BilloX · 23rd March 2006, 11:57

Hi Folks,

We perfectly understand your point about the need for a printed manual.

With Hexagon, and even more with the version 2, we decided to put all efforts on videos (with audio comments in the v2!), tutorials, interactive navigation within the manual (via hyperlinks)... as well as to be able to update the manual, easily and at reduced cost, if needed (like between Hexagon 1 and 1.2)
So the manual has been designed to provide the above "interactive" features

To get a printable version, we would need to dedicate a lot of time, to re-layout and even re-write significant parts of the manual.
To be honnest, the demand we have from the market is for now far too low to launch this program.
I am not saying that there will never be a printed manual for Hexagon 2. But before taking that decision, we need to be sure it's worth doing it.

Last word: two training DVDs on Hexagon 2 are currently on track - and I think this will be very valuable learning tools for Hexagon 2...
Hopefuly maybe one day soon will we see as well a book on Hexagon 2? This will obviously depend on the success of the product!

- Laurent

mykyl1966 · 23rd March 2006, 12:06

Oh and if you do create a printed manual, offer it to us Euro users as well. Stop having two tier Eovia customers. ;)

Mike R

mon_stdnt · 23rd March 2006, 15:16

Its true. It takes time searching for the exact page your looking for in a pdf, since their is no links to send you the the page, except the small movies. In this case the movies are a haslle becasue you have to load the CD to view it unless you've copied it to to your computer, but who wants to loose hard-drive room (even if its a small amout) from clips that is in the cd.

PLus if your running Hexagon at the same time with the clip, it may slow it down.
Don't get me wrong

its a BIG help I get from the CD and the PDF, but it would be much easer with a printed manual for us to buy.

mon_stdnt · 23rd March 2006, 15:21

BilloX- never really thought of it that way, but in this case I'll wait. I'm also looking forward to with HEX DVDs. YEAH!

h.davey · 23rd March 2006, 16:34

Like BWTR, I like a paper manual to read and take notes in and etc. I solved that problem in Hex1 by having the current Hex1 .pdf manual printed - both sides of the paper in B&W and coil bound with a cover at Kinko's, for under $24 USD. PDF files make printing of the file easy, and all I did was burn the manual .pdf file to a cd and take it to my local Kinko's.
The coil binding allows the manual to lay flat at any page. The price at most print shops (in the US) should be about the same.
Cheers,
Hal D

Grendel · 23rd March 2006, 17:03

I did the same thing, Kinko's does a good job and you get it same day.

Thomas · 23rd March 2006, 17:08

if you uncheck the option, the manual is installed in the Hexagon application folder or package (if you are on mac)
Nowadays, who can't add 300 more Mb to its folder installation...? I can even fit in any recent USB key ;)

WillBellJr · 23rd March 2006, 18:59

Well here's my vote for a printed manual for the reasons stated above...

I'm a avid reader and I ALWAYS prefer a manual to online stuff. PDFs are the next best if it must be electronic - at least it can be printed and binded as mentioned...

I remember back in my electronics engineering days, a customer of my shop (we used to develop custom hardware) had an idea for a "digital book"; basically an LCD screen allowing you to read... More or less a precursor to the tablet pc or PDAs of today.

Someone needs to develop a defacto standard "digital book" device that can let you read, search, bookmark and notate pages AND be inexpensive enough to actually buy!

You could upload a pdf into it, buy books from amazon and download them right in etc.
Only if it's ubiquitous as PDFs and Flash as far as being able to read ALL and any kind of books text will it ever catch on and become common place - but I digress...

When I first downloaded the Carrara demo, I wanted to read it away from the computer so I installed the PocketPC version of Adobe Acrobat and uploaded the manual to my Dell Axim - readable but of course hard to navigate and view due to the small screen size...

I would think if people are willing to pay for manuals, that should make it somewhat worth it - there's always those e-printing companies that only print when an order comes in so it's less cost, no stocking fees and the manuals are printed on demand...

I understand it takes time and it's a little different writing manuals than video tutorials - in fact I'm wondering if (technical books at least) will become obsolete due to video tutorials?

A picture is worth 1000 words but unless I can hang a flat screen monitor in my bathroom and slide a DVD under my toilet seat (and not have it flush down like the last time I tried) and view it that way, I still need my books!

-Will

bwtr · 27th March 2006, 04:23

I have just spent a long exercise trying to learn from the Hex vidieos. I can confirm everything Will says.

I think, most strongly, that it is an almost insult by the producers of a programme if they put the production of a printed manual low on thier lists of priorities.

NOT producing a printed manual is lazyness!

BluesDragon · 27th March 2006, 21:18

Printed manuals are more expensive and time consuming. Increase shipping costs for boxed product. PDF manuals have seach capability too.

Personally, I can learn more from watching a video (specially with audio) of someone showing something, specially if there is text ref to go with it.

I prefer to get my product faster and cheaper.

I have a printer, most people do, and can always run to a Kinko's if I feel the need to have one that bad. Just takes a little effort and "want to" IMHO.

Just my take on it.

-ash- · 27th March 2006, 21:54

Sorry, but I quite like the PDF files, when they are written well.

As I'm learning about an option I might need to know about it. For this I really like the search function. For example, if I'm trying to do something with volumetric clouds and can't remember what the silver lining slider is for I'll open up the PDF on my second monitor, a quick search and I'm there. This is not so easy with a printed book.

I also like getting my product faster and cheaper too.

As has already been said, if I want it printed I can always take the PDF to my local copier and get it done.

I also understand how much effort is required to create, print, distribute and keep up to date a printed manual as this is my day job. Personally, I would prefer Eovia to keep the price of the software down

Andreseloy · 28th March 2006, 18:24

can you give us more information about the dvd, topics,release,cost and where we can buy it?
will be a great help for us.
Thanks in advance
Andreseloy

AndiN · 28th March 2006, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BilloX

To get a printable version, we would need to dedicate a lot of time, to re-layout and even re-write significant parts of the manual.

I could understand this statement if you were using online Help (like compiled HTML files created with something like Robohelp); I've done doc where the program used online Help, but we also offered printed manuals. Since we didn't have a doc management system in place that allowed us to reuse content for both purposes automatically, we had to maintain separate files for each. Even when I used one file as the starting point for the other media, it was pretty time consuming.

But a PDF is a printable document. It's not comprised of multiple individual topics like compiled help files are. That's why it's so easy to take it someplace like Kinko's and have it printed. (Which is what I do.) So I'm not sure why you'd have to redo the layout. In fact, using a PDF as the program's help should make it EASIER to reuse the doc for a printed manual, not harder.

Same goes for having to rewrite large parts of the manual. Shouldn't that information already be in the manual? (That's a rhetorical question; if it's important enough to need to be in a printed manual, then it's important enough to be in the help -- even if you have a QT video to show it.) Even if you use compiled help files, the content is (essentially) the same; just the layout changes.

Sorry -- that comment just really perplexed me.
Andi

moonshot · 29th March 2006, 01:42

Hey Folks,
These guys are working hard and without any profit at the moment. Let them concentrate on what's really important - the software itself. And by the way, would you still prefer your old paper manual if you knew there is a newer and better PDF-manual?
Greets, Moonshot

rho · 29th March 2006, 01:57

"... without any profit ..."
How come?

AndiN · 29th March 2006, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonshot

Hey Folks,
These guys are working hard and without any profit at the moment. Let them concentrate on what's really important - the software itself. And by the way, would you still prefer your old paper manual if you knew there is a newer and better PDF-manual?
Greets, Moonshot

No one's saying that they aren't working hard. Or that we don't want them to concentrate on the code. But documentation is important, too. The better the doc -- whether that's online help, video tutorials, or printed manuals -- the more easily users can learn the program. And, by extension, the more likely users are to stick with the program and to recommend it to others. (Anyone remember all the complaints about how hard Amapi was to learn, and about the doc for it?)

Besides, if improved -- or just a different type of -- documentation is important to myself or anyone else as a paying customer, why shouldn't we be able to let Eovia know that? A lot of the new features in H2 are things that the user community mentioned as things that we wanted, that were important to us. If we hadn't told Eovia that we wanted those things, they wouldn't have known and those things might not have been included. Same goes for doc. If the PDF manual isn't helping someone learn how to use Hexagon but he or she doesn't tell Eovia that, then how are they going to know?

Feedback on the doc is just like feedback on any part of the program. Users need to let the software company know if their needs are being met, or if there are enhancements that they'd like to see. From that point, the software company can decide whether to run with that suggestion or not. But please don't assume that just because a suggested enhancement or improvement isn't important to you that it isn't important at all. For some people, it can be very important. Since this subject keeps coming up, I'd say that it's very important to some Hexagon users.

moonshot · 29th March 2006, 02:14

maybe I should precise my statement a little. As far as I can read out of BilloX's post, they're not making profit on hexagon - yet.

bwtr · 29th March 2006, 02:19

Agree fully. Hex 2 will deserve a serious printed manual for those who like to sit back, read and notate. The PROPER way of studying! It does not have to be included in shipment of boxed sets--just available to purchase. And, in reply to an earlier point. I could not survive without my old Carrara4 handbook. I look up things in it daily.

23rd March 2006, 03:22	#1 (permalink)
mon_stdnt Always learning Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 446	HEX 2 Manual Will there be manual that we can order like Carrara? or its just a pdf file. Cause for the hexagon 1 pdf file I actualy printed every single page and tried binding them, but it came out messy. __________________ www.rgamarra.com

23rd March 2006, 11:57	#3 (permalink)
BilloX Amapi's Daddy Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 138	Hi Folks, We perfectly understand your point about the need for a printed manual. With Hexagon, and even more with the version 2, we decided to put all efforts on videos (with audio comments in the v2!), tutorials, interactive navigation within the manual (via hyperlinks)... as well as to be able to update the manual, easily and at reduced cost, if needed (like between Hexagon 1 and 1.2) So the manual has been designed to provide the above "interactive" features To get a printable version, we would need to dedicate a lot of time, to re-layout and even re-write significant parts of the manual. To be honnest, the demand we have from the market is for now far too low to launch this program. I am not saying that there will never be a printed manual for Hexagon 2. But before taking that decision, we need to be sure it's worth doing it. Last word: two training DVDs on Hexagon 2 are currently on track - and I think this will be very valuable learning tools for Hexagon 2... Hopefuly maybe one day soon will we see as well a book on Hexagon 2? This will obviously depend on the success of the product! - Laurent __________________ - Laurent

23rd March 2006, 12:06	#4 (permalink)
mykyl1966 Box modeling Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 278	Oh and if you do create a printed manual, offer it to us Euro users as well. Stop having two tier Eovia customers. ;) Mike R __________________ I dont believe everything I think.

23rd March 2006, 15:16	#5 (permalink)
mon_stdnt Always learning Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 446	Its true. It takes time searching for the exact page your looking for in a pdf, since their is no links to send you the the page, except the small movies. In this case the movies are a haslle becasue you have to load the CD to view it unless you've copied it to to your computer, but who wants to loose hard-drive room (even if its a small amout) from clips that is in the cd. PLus if your running Hexagon at the same time with the clip, it may slow it down. Don't get me wrong its a BIG help I get from the CD and the PDF, but it would be much easer with a printed manual for us to buy. __________________ www.rgamarra.com

23rd March 2006, 15:21	#6 (permalink)
mon_stdnt Always learning Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 446	BilloX- never really thought of it that way, but in this case I'll wait. I'm also looking forward to with HEX DVDs. YEAH! __________________ www.rgamarra.com

23rd March 2006, 04:52	#2 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	I agree. Hexagon 2 deserves a proper printed manual --even if we have to pay!!! I treasure my Carrara 3 and 4 manuals. Hexagon, with all it's "quirks" for newcomers, needs a REAL book which you can sit back and quietly digest and even make notes in! Good as they may be, pdfs and quicktime movies are NOT for the likes of me.

23rd March 2006, 16:34	#7 (permalink)
h.davey Spline Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bedford, Texas Posts: 31	Like BWTR, I like a paper manual to read and take notes in and etc. I solved that problem in Hex1 by having the current Hex1 .pdf manual printed - both sides of the paper in B&W and coil bound with a cover at Kinko's, for under $24 USD. PDF files make printing of the file easy, and all I did was burn the manual .pdf file to a cd and take it to my local Kinko's. The coil binding allows the manual to lay flat at any page. The price at most print shops (in the US) should be about the same. Cheers, Hal D __________________ "You don't know what it is that you don't know!"

23rd March 2006, 17:03	#8 (permalink)
Grendel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,262	I did the same thing, Kinko's does a good job and you get it same day.

23rd March 2006, 17:08	#9 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,295	if you uncheck the option, the manual is installed in the Hexagon application folder or package (if you are on mac) Nowadays, who can't add 300 more Mb to its folder installation...? I can even fit in any recent USB key ;) __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

23rd March 2006, 18:59	#10 (permalink)
WillBellJr Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 207	Well here's my vote for a printed manual for the reasons stated above... I'm a avid reader and I ALWAYS prefer a manual to online stuff. PDFs are the next best if it must be electronic - at least it can be printed and binded as mentioned... I remember back in my electronics engineering days, a customer of my shop (we used to develop custom hardware) had an idea for a "digital book"; basically an LCD screen allowing you to read... More or less a precursor to the tablet pc or PDAs of today. Someone needs to develop a defacto standard "digital book" device that can let you read, search, bookmark and notate pages AND be inexpensive enough to actually buy! You could upload a pdf into it, buy books from amazon and download them right in etc. Only if it's ubiquitous as PDFs and Flash as far as being able to read ALL and any kind of books text will it ever catch on and become common place - but I digress... When I first downloaded the Carrara demo, I wanted to read it away from the computer so I installed the PocketPC version of Adobe Acrobat and uploaded the manual to my Dell Axim - readable but of course hard to navigate and view due to the small screen size... I would think if people are willing to pay for manuals, that should make it somewhat worth it - there's always those e-printing companies that only print when an order comes in so it's less cost, no stocking fees and the manuals are printed on demand... I understand it takes time and it's a little different writing manuals than video tutorials - in fact I'm wondering if (technical books at least) will become obsolete due to video tutorials? A picture is worth 1000 words but unless I can hang a flat screen monitor in my bathroom and slide a DVD under my toilet seat (and not have it flush down like the last time I tried) and view it that way, I still need my books! -Will

27th March 2006, 04:23	#11 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	I have just spent a long exercise trying to learn from the Hex vidieos. I can confirm everything Will says. I think, most strongly, that it is an almost insult by the producers of a programme if they put the production of a printed manual low on thier lists of priorities. NOT producing a printed manual is lazyness!

27th March 2006, 21:18	#12 (permalink)
BluesDragon Box modeling Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 243	Printed manuals are more expensive and time consuming. Increase shipping costs for boxed product. PDF manuals have seach capability too. Personally, I can learn more from watching a video (specially with audio) of someone showing something, specially if there is text ref to go with it. I prefer to get my product faster and cheaper. I have a printer, most people do, and can always run to a Kinko's if I feel the need to have one that bad. Just takes a little effort and "want to" IMHO. Just my take on it.

27th March 2006, 21:54	#13 (permalink)
-ash- I'm Batman (in 3D) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Over the road, round the corner, out of the noise. (Scotland) Posts: 765	Sorry, but I quite like the PDF files, when they are written well. As I'm learning about an option I might need to know about it. For this I really like the search function. For example, if I'm trying to do something with volumetric clouds and can't remember what the silver lining slider is for I'll open up the PDF on my second monitor, a quick search and I'm there. This is not so easy with a printed book. I also like getting my product faster and cheaper too. As has already been said, if I want it printed I can always take the PDF to my local copier and get it done. I also understand how much effort is required to create, print, distribute and keep up to date a printed manual as this is my day job. Personally, I would prefer Eovia to keep the price of the software down __________________ Regards Tony (aka HamSoles)

28th March 2006, 18:24	#14 (permalink)
Andreseloy Cube Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 79	Hi Laurent... can you give us more information about the dvd, topics,release,cost and where we can buy it? will be a great help for us. Thanks in advance Andreseloy

29th March 2006, 01:42	#16 (permalink)
moonshot Spline Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 40	Hey Folks, These guys are working hard and without any profit at the moment. Let them concentrate on what's really important - the software itself. And by the way, would you still prefer your old paper manual if you knew there is a newer and better PDF-manual? Greets, Moonshot

29th March 2006, 01:57	#17 (permalink)
rho Vertex Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11	"... without any profit ..." How come?

29th March 2006, 02:14	#19 (permalink)
moonshot Spline Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 40	maybe I should precise my statement a little. As far as I can read out of BilloX's post, they're not making profit on hexagon - yet.

29th March 2006, 02:19	#20 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Agree fully. Hex 2 will deserve a serious printed manual for those who like to sit back, read and notate. The PROPER way of studying! It does not have to be included in shipment of boxed sets--just available to purchase. And, in reply to an earlier point. I could not survive without my old Carrara4 handbook. I look up things in it daily.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode