HEX 2 Manual

[moonshot]

I don't disagree with you, Andi. Right now we are all lucky to get this software for a that rate. I´m sure a printed manual would increase the price quite noticeably at this stage. For my opinion I appreciate to save the money. However, I also worship a good manual, but it doesn't necessarily have to be printed. I too like reading printed manuals, but the downside is, that I get too comfortable reading in an armchair, getting too lazy to return to my computer to try things out.

[Nate Owens]

I have no problems with the pdf... I like the embedded movies, etc. and, as mentioned it has hyperlinks to all the stuff.

I printed out my Hex 1 manual, page backing up page on my little deskjet. I punched the pages and put them in a cheap 3-ring binder. Works great. I'd prefer to buy the software at a good price instead of having the price of a manual boosting the price.

Living around 40 miles from the nearest Kinko's makes that a drag, and my printer can run while the computer is doing other stuff. A little paper, a little ink, and affordable software.... what an idea!!

I don't see this as lazy, but a smart move on the part of the developers and marketing department. Seems quite a few software producers are providing electronic manuals with their packages.

[aether]

I was an Infini D user, and found Carrara a great evolutionary step, so needless to say, I have a number of obsolete manuals hanging around. As much as I like having a printed manual (and truth be told, prefer it) we really should be as realistic as possible at this point. I was thrilled when I heard about the C5 manual, but when I looked at the amount of similarity through C3 and C4 manuals especially, I decided to get the new info from the pdf (and save $40); what'll eovia do with left over manuals?

I really enjoy using Hexagon, it is a powerful and fun application, and Hex 2 looks even more wonderful (and at the price), but as long as there is pretty good documentation, I believe we should be contented for now. Yes, I also have been too lazy to print out the pdf, but as Hex isn't yet a mainstream program I can understand why the additional work and cost would be a concern for the developers. Carrara is fairly mainstream because it replaced Infini-D and Ray Dream Studio, both of which were already pretty popular (Infini-D was an industry standard at one point).

The folks at eovia have given us some great software at extremely reasonable prices, I humbly believe they deserve our patience. I'm confident they will do what's appropriate when the time is right (especially knowing now that there is a growing demand).

For now, let's be happy with the pdf; and let's get some more info on those training DVDs. Best regards to everyone : )

[BilloX]

Originally Posted by moonshot

...As far as I can read out of BilloX's post, they're not making profit on hexagon - yet.

Well, I do not see where is did say this?
If by "making profit" you mean "turning Eovia's shareholder into millionaires". Yes you're right!
On the other side, if Hexagon 1 had been a breakdown, we had not been able to do Hexagon 2

Well, for me, there is no debate about "can a printed manual be useful?". Sure it can be.
As I said, I did not say we will never produce a printed manual for Hexagon 2. We will certainly consider doing this just when we will be sure that the demand is worth the time and resource to allocate to this...
Yes it is a basic business consideration. Sorry.
But even if we did not become millionaires with Hexagon (yet!), we cannot afford losing money while proposing it to the market.

Hope this will clarify a bit the Eovia's position for now...

[etujedi]

The PDFs will hold me over until a printed manual comes along. I can deal with either as long as the information helps me to better use the software. No if only I had the patience to wait for Hex 2...

[BluesDragon]

Originally Posted by BilloX

Well, I do not see where is did say this?
If by "making profit" you mean "turning Eovia's shareholder into millionaires". Yes you're right!
On the other side, if Hexagon 1 had been a breakdown, we had not been able to do Hexagon 2

Well, for me, there is no debate about "can a printed manual be useful?". Sure it can be.
As I said, I did not say we will never produce a printed manual for Hexagon 2. We will certainly consider doing this just when we will be sure that the demand is worth the time and resource to allocate to this...
Yes it is a basic business consideration. Sorry.
But even if we did not become millionaires with Hexagon (yet!), we cannot afford losing money while proposing it to the market.

Hope this will clarify a bit the Eovia's position for now...

You guys are doing great, keep up the good work.

Ever consider a book/CD combo with addtional tutes and stuff to sell in the bookstores/online?

I know I would snatch it up pronto!

[bwtr]

Me too, but the book must be at no less a level than the Carrara4 handbook which is my best friend!

[Naes3d]

As long as the PDF is properly formatted for printing, I don't see the problem.

[bwtr]

I can't get a pdf printed for under 25c a page--$125 for 500 pages- then add some binding costs maybe and you are still left with a messy thing to read compared to a normal printed manual.

[Naes3d]

Reading a PDF can't be that much different than reading a post on a forum or an online tutorial. If each concept is broken into chunks for learning, it shouldn't be too difficult to utilize a PDF.

[WillBellJr]

Originally Posted by BluesDragon

You guys are doing great, keep up the good work.

Ever consider a book/CD combo with addtional tutes and stuff to sell in the bookstores/online?

I know I would snatch it up pronto!

Well I'm coming in late back from my honeymoon but frankly this shouldn't devolve between a debate between "camps"...

My stance is simply this - if I start paying more than a coupla tens of bucks for a software package - I begin to expect a quality printed manual that goes along with it.

Unless you don't know what you're doing, usually the more complex a software product is, the more you pay for it therefore you need a good manual so you can sit down and digest the features of the software and hopefully also receive information on >best practices< on using the software as intended.

I damn sure wouldn't expect a Cruise Ship manufacturer to tell me to go view some online PDFs and video tuts? (Maybe I need to find out how to restore the dang power to the boat!! - Believe me, they print them schematics and engineering diagrams on Tyvek paper!)

Printed manuals are a good thing - they denote a sense of quality to a software package.

Documentation is important (and I say this as a software engineer by profession.)

I remember when I first purchased Deneba Canvas back in the day and the gorgeous printed manual they supplied...
(Lawd the chemical smell from it would turn my green tea white, but it was a gorgeous manual!)

Those manuals were a good read back on the F train at nite coming from work!

I can see letting Hex slide with perhaps a PDF but Carrara, naw, I'd expect a decent manual to really teach how to use all the different renderer and material editor features and capabilities etc.

I was also very happy when I received my Carrara 5 manual - it was like the cake icing to a wonderful program...

I totally agree with sentiment on not wanting the documentation to hold up the >release< of Hex2. Who wants ANYTHING to hold up the release of Hex2.


So I can accept PDFs as an alternate form of manuals since they can be professionally printed as already discussed BUT personally, I'm not worried about >additional cost< for the manuals. That's a non-issue for me.

I can understand folks on a budget but pretend for a second I'm Trump, I don't care too much about paying extra for a manual but at least give me the option...

I don't think I'd be too happy however if this became the norm! Imagine buying Adobe After Effects or Photoshop and being told you need to buy the manual extra - any program of moderate complexity SHOULD have a manual.

$30, $50, $100 software - PDF, sure, but $299, $399 - $595?? I mean c'mon now!

As suggested, if done right, printed documentation can be used as an additional path for revenue, I don't have a problem with that at all.

A printed manual along with some included electronic media (video tuts on a CD or DVD) is even more than I expected. A nice idea I must say.

Simply put, there are those of us who like our manuals; we like to read and digest offline, while doing things away from the computer (like on that 6am flight...)
And we're willing in most cases to pay a fair price for quality binded manuals (I'll never give Newtek $100 again for a horse-azz 3-ring binder and 3-hole punched 8.5x11 straight printout! I could have did that myself at kinkos and saved - wasn't even color print!)

There are those who accept electronic documentation to save on purchase costs.

If the manuals are done "right", time should be minimized and the work could at least yield material that supports both online and printed output.

Neither way is right, wrong or better. How we like to learn is subjective.

Personally I feel a professional software package should be supported by a manual one can sit back and read at leisure.

-Will

[mdunakin]

Hey Will!, hope you had a great time and again, congrats

And I just got my Pre-Order of Hex yesterday!
Yay!
Already installed and updated and all that and now just waiting for the Hex2 upgrade.
In the mean time, I am going through all the "fun" learning processes

As for this subject of Printed over PDFs, I actually love the working use of
the PDFs over the Printed, but that's only when I'm actually working right
in the program as I have the PDF open and when I get stuck I can "instantly"
find what I need, from doing the search, but I can find "more" then I need,
because it will list ALL of the things related to what I might? be interested?
Which really speeds things up for me, as then I can "quickly" do a scan through the various links that pop up and such for me to see which
topics actually relate to what I might be interested in.
Where as in the Printed version, you are reading along, and then it will refer
you to another page, which when you get there, refers you to yet another
page and again and again on and on like that and I end up with either my
figures trying to keep all these different pages all opened while I read
(scan them) through to see which topics are really what I am interested in,
or I have to place a ton of little book markers all over the place.

This is just fine with me......... for most things.
Because with this said, I too happen to like a Printer Manual.
I personally loved your comments about the (I will call it) the Porcilin Office, LOL.
Because I also like to have the "option" to have a
Printed Manual if I feel like I just want to relax and read.
But then with that said, I also see nothing wrong with pricing accordingly,
so that those of us who aren't Trump, can order a more reasonably priced
product that better matches what we types can afford rather then to incur
that extra cost of having ALL shipped out versions have the manual in them,
when some of us out here would be quite satisfied to pay less and not get the
manual, if we so desire, instead of having to be forced into paying a higher
price for something when we could of had it for cheaper if it didn't
automatically come with the Printed version of the Manual.

I.E. I guess, in otherwords, I feel the option should be there, so that way those who feel that they really want the extra paper, can pay for the
extra cost and let those who don't mind the trade off in pricing
from not having the paper, have that choice.

Anyway, I still have to say though, that when I opened the box, I was sooo
excited to start reading the manual, and then there was only a folded paper
inside with a short tutorial, which is already in video format on the net anyway.

And I also do like video (expecially talking videos) best for tutorials,
but paper reading and PDFs for tool sets and such.

One last comment, Hex is sooo fun to use and work with,
that you forget that you are working with powerfull stuff there LOL

Can't wait for v2!

.........................................md

.

[bwtr]

Don't people remember the joys of putting down, and opening again, to a book mark! Now days I use those lovely little "stickys" , some with a notation, and go back, time and time again to "revitalise" my understanding. Pdfs are handy but unless you have two screens, working through them on a learning exercise is a real pinta.
Dumb videos at high speed are not a good learning exercise--they would be slower IF the sound explanations were added!

[mdunakin]

Yeah, I put my little sticky things in as well LOL
Well, I mostly find myself using business cards from various places.
That's also how I am always loosing my business cards to
places I "need" to keep for future refference.

I happen to love videos for tutorial, as they show you what is actually going on,
instead of relying on text only and usually with NO images/screen shots or whatever,
like a lot of them tend to do or leave out important bits that matter, where in
a video you can actually "see" where they are placing the mouse and all that.
And yes, they aren't much use (in most cases that is) without any talking (voice)
on them, as when you hear the person talking, they will usually tend to throw in
some extra stuff that might not be in either print or in just a text based video.

Good training though, is going to be good in which ever format it comes in.
But nothing beats visuals and even better, video/sound visuals.

My problem right now, is just trying to fit some time in so I can play some more with Hex LOL

.............md

.

[Gareee]

Maybe a possible solution is lulu.com? They will print up books based on orders, and cost to print.

If someone can provide them with the documents in printable format, the books can be ordered at no expense to Evolva at all. heck, even one of you enterprising guys out there could do it, and maybe make a few bucks off each copy.

(If someone's interested, I'd contact Thomas, and see if a mutual agreement can be reached.)

That way a "hard" manual would be available at least from some source, and I believe they ship worldwide.

(I've also seen people put together "mini books" and just order them for their families as Christmas gifts!)

[WillBellJr]

Hey Mark, thanks for the well wishes and WELCOME to the Eovia family - nice to finally see you over on this side of the 3D graphics world!


Well ultimately it's up to Eovia what they're gonna do.

I'm all for Eovia thriving - making a profit on the manuals.

Hex and Carrara are the primo packages for Eovia, and I can't help but feel that having a really good Hex manual on my desk to go along with Carrara's would be just a wonderful move.

This will be one of the first products short of ZBrush to do what it does (and lawd knows ZBrush needs a manual - even with all the tuts and videos, I don't think there's any ZB owner that doesn't wish there was a MANUAL for that program - frankly it's a disgrace it doesn't have one but again, that's just my opinion...)

Everyone is going to spring for Hex 2 (right Mark?), it's going to be one of the hottest product of this year - if only one manual is done up for Hex, make it this one IMHO!

-Will

[Nate Owens]

Today's software tools (like Hexagon) are growing fast and new versions and updates are coming more rapidly than ever.

I like that.
I think we all like what Hexagon is doing, and they are doing it pretty darn quick.

When Hexagon does one of those marvelous upgrades that they do... like version 2... and it hasn't happened so long after version 1.... what do they do about a printed manual then?

All the printed manuals instantly become obsolete, and there is the expense and hassle of of making another... whether Eovia does it or someone else.

For that specific reason, good or bad, electronic manuals are the wave of the future.

I don't find printing out a PDF manual to be that strenuous... I still have my printed version of Hex 1 in a binder... will do the same when Hex 2 is in hand.

[mdunakin]

LOL, yeah, Will, I'm here now too (on the band wagon, as it were) and happy to be here too!

I do have to say, I didn't just jump in though and all that, as I truely spent
a lot of time (about three weeks or more) examining ALL of the options out
there, including Modo and UnFold and several others, and I have to say,
for the "pricing" Hex wins hands down!
Which was why I had no choice but to go for it.

As for manuals though, even though I tend to use the PDFs more then
the paper versions while I'm actually working in the program (because of the
quick search features in PDFs as well as you tend to get a LOT more screen
shots in a PDF then you do in paper) I did buy the boxed version, because
I sort of thought it was going to have the paper manual in it
or some kind of mini manual, but there wasn't.
Just some thing that unfolded with text pointing to each tool saying
what it was, but nothing else, other then a short quicky tut that
is already in video format on creating a man-cow thingy LOL
But, for the most part, I'm complete happy with just PDFs or HTML manuals.
This bit about you needing two monitors that I am always hearing from people, is simply lame.
I never need two monitors and don't
people know how to use their Alt+Tab key anyway?
It's as simple as that.
Read what you want, flip back to the app and
try it out and flip back and forth when you need to.
No biggie, IMO

But, that's OK I guess for me
I do agree that at least some softwares should have the
"option" though to purchase a manual if someone wants one?

................md

.

[bwtr]

Obviously, for once, it was not a silly thread for me to start. The responses are very illuminating on how different people work--some I just find "unnatural" but then we are all different.

[Nate Owens]

Originally Posted by bwtr

.....The responses are very illuminating on how different people work--some I just find "unnatural" but then we are all different.

Just for you bwtr...

"Mr. Natural"