UV Unfold Guidance Needed - Polyloop

vkirchner · 17th September 2007, 22:26

I need assistance to perform my current work requirements, aka my job. I have a German City model within Rhino that I want to use in a commercial renderer called Light3d, it accepts 3DS and VRML files along with Iges and DXF. I plan to use 3DS or VRML, because I want to map the textures prior to importing the files into Light3D. Light3D does not currently support OBJ, so that is not an option. Rhino also does not have internal mapping properties, so I have UVMapper for that type of work, but the UVMapper program does not support 3DS or VRML. Okay, long winded story to tell you how I got back to using Hexagon. My workflow is planned as such, Rhino model into Hexagon the file choice is still open for suggestions to accomplish this. Once into Hexagon, uv map the textures onto the mesh and output into a 3DS file or VRML. If this output is not possible, please stop me at this point.

The first geometry planned is the curb surfaces, I have spent the time breaking up the surfaces within Rhino to allow the use of smaller textures for memory management, also the possibility of stacking UV's if supported. There are quite a lot of curb surfaces to do, approximately 60 on each side of the street. I am still very new to hexagon, and fairly new to uv mapping. Can anyone suggest suitable tutorials to work through, also provide suggestions on what was stated above? I have included an image of the curb surfaces for reference. Thank you.

Vince

jbshorty · 18th September 2007, 05:31

Hi Vince. I am not sure you need to do any unwrapping. If you made the original Rhino "curb" surface as one big untrimmed surface, then you could easily split it up into seperate surfaces (along isocurves) and then shrink them. Each surface would use the full UV space, essentially stacking them as you mentioned. Then you could use the same small image map on all of them... Of course Rhino does not have a utility for inspecting your UV's, but you could open them in Hexagon, take a look at the UV's in the UV view and maybe scale them to fit the map if necessary...

shorty

vkirchner · 18th September 2007, 17:19

Shorty,

What is the shrinking doing, is it reducing the large single curb UV surface space down to match the smaller isocurve trimmed surfaces?

You mention opening the UV's in Hexagon and adjusting them to fit the texture image. I suspect that this does not modify the geometry inside Hexagon, is that true? What tut do I look at to understand that workflow? I have looked at the supplied forum tut's and as of yet I do not understand what does and does not affect the geometry inside Hexagon.

The other question I have is, when Hexagon writes out a 3DS or VRML file, does it save the UV and texture information, of this whole exercise could be in vain?

Thanks for the help Shorty.

jbshorty · 18th September 2007, 21:37

Hi. When you shrink a surface, the hidden isocurves are deleted from the surface. The UV space of a Nurbs surface is always spread across the full extents of the untrimmed surface. So shrinking the surface also shrinks the UV's to match the new surface. If the shrunk surface is not trimmed in any way, then your UV's will occupy the full area of the surface (UV coordinates 0,0 to 1,1). This is great because you have perfect coordinates to match your exported mesh object. But the UV's of a Nurbs object can sometimes be non-uniform in certain areas becasue they are built around the isoparms in the surface. This means surface areas of high curvature change will have many isoparms and might have compressed UV space, and those areas of less curvature (less isoparms) might have stretched UV space. The only way to fix the UV's of a Nurbs surface is to rebuild the surface, which creates even spacing of the isoparms and then makes correctly proportioned UV space. So no UV editing would be required... But let's suppose you had a surface which rebuilding is not preferred, then you can always fix the UV's in an editor such as Hexagon. You are correct that editing UV's will not affect the mesh itself. It's a different data set. In Hexagon, you can basically just select an object, select the split viewport, then switch one of them to a UV view. If the UV grid is not perfect rectilinear, then you can select the UV rows or colums which need to be adjusted and just move them along the U and V axes using the manipulators. It's pretty easy, but it takes time to do by hand...

Sorry i can't answer your question about exporting to those formats. I mostly use OBJ (to Rhino) or LWO (to Modo)...

shorty

vkirchner · 19th September 2007, 02:56

Shorty,

Thanks for the info, I understand what you outlined. Do I know enough of Hexagon to do that, I doubt it.

I will start a few tests and see what trouble I get into. Several test parts were run with the renderer today. I was able to get most of the curb and road in with sliced up surfaces and seamless textures. But that will not cut it on the house exterior surfaces and windows. They have to be UV mapped to provide realistic textures with dirt, fading paint, etc.

I now that VRML specification supports texture output, you can see that in the browser viewers, but I do not know about the Hexagon program. The same goes for the 3DS file, Hexagon outptu unknown. When I output a 3DS file from Rhino, the textures will be output in the 3DS file if I remember to keep the names in a standard 8.3 format (Dos).

Thanks for dragging me along Shorty. You seem to be the only consistant answer, I will have to learn French to try and fit it with the rest of the pack here.

Grâce à chacun ici.

jbshorty · 19th September 2007, 17:08

Pas un problème! Hex's UV editor is pretty straight forward. Just play around and you'll quickly get the feel for it...

shorty

vkirchner · 20th September 2007, 23:15

Shorty,

Just tried a wild idea and it panned out. If you read a mapped OBJ file into Rhino, then output the mapped mesh into VRML 2.0 with texture coordinates selected, everything is saved perfectly within the file. I tried this method with a section of the wall, sidewalk, and road with perfect results in the special renderer. This will make my life a lot easier. I just wanted to tell you if you run into a similar problem some time.

jbshorty · 21st September 2007, 01:00

Yep. Rhino's pretty good at the the old "in-out"

. So which program did you finally use to create your UV maps?

shorty

vkirchner · 21st September 2007, 22:13

UVMapper and Rhino for the complex ones, Hexagon for the simpler ones. I can only beat my head against the desk for so long at a given time.

jbshorty · 24th September 2007, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkirchner

UVMapper and Rhino for the complex ones, Hexagon for the simpler ones. I can only beat my head against the desk for so long at a given time.

That's true. The desk needs a break every now and then or you might damage it

. I just read a post in the Rhino NG from Andy of McNeel, where he said they're working on some more advanced mapping stuff for Rhino. He didn't mention any specific tools, just that some things will be coming down the road. I put in a request for a UV editor viewport and now I keep my fingers crossed...

shorty

vkirchner · 24th September 2007, 23:42

That is great news Shorty, I have not seen that message yet at McNeel forum. Must be slipping.

Thanks for putting in the request, that would be a benefit to a lot of people.

Regards
Vince

crazy wabbit · 25th September 2007, 02:53

vkirchner your avatar reminds me of two guys at my previous work that used to go to bathroom together all the time. It was very strange cause they were both married with kids too but always planned their bathroom trip at the same time.

vkirchner · 25th September 2007, 21:27

Oh man, I do not want to start any rumors like that. I will change the avatar immediately.

jbshorty · 25th September 2007, 22:02

a bumper to bumper to bumper accident...

vkirchner · 26th September 2007, 00:08

Fond memories of past days.

jbshorty · 26th September 2007, 00:18

i know what you did last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last summer

vkirchner · 26th September 2007, 02:47

Shhhhhh, don't tell my Wife, it will make her mad. That was before I married her. Been true to her ever since I laid eyes on her (27+ years).

jbshorty · 26th September 2007, 03:37

WOW! Congratulations on making it that far Vince. I am just approaching my first 18 months. Who knew that marriage would be so much work?! We should start a Polyloop relationship thread. So marriage newbies like me can get some good advice from an old pro such as yourself...

vkirchner · 26th September 2007, 15:51

Ha, I have made this far because she said that I was trainable. From everyone I have talked to, they say tongue in cheek that they only have to remember a few simple statements.

1. Yes Dear.
2. I was wrong.
3. I'm sorry.

One of the Program Managers I work with has used a line which I like a lot. When he overlooks something he is supposed to see, or he is not paying attention, his Wife will ask him if he is listening to her. He will always state that he was "blinded by her beauty". I can see this working for a while, but she will eventually see through this.

jbshorty · 26th September 2007, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkirchner

1. Yes Dear.
2. I was wrong.
3. I'm sorry.

I usually add a "but" on the end of those 3 lines, which only seems to get me into more trouble

... And you're right, the effectiveness of being "blinded by beauty" is quickly wearing down. I need to work on some fresh material...

shorty

17th September 2007, 22:26	#1 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	UV Unfold Guidance Needed I need assistance to perform my current work requirements, aka my job. I have a German City model within Rhino that I want to use in a commercial renderer called Light3d, it accepts 3DS and VRML files along with Iges and DXF. I plan to use 3DS or VRML, because I want to map the textures prior to importing the files into Light3D. Light3D does not currently support OBJ, so that is not an option. Rhino also does not have internal mapping properties, so I have UVMapper for that type of work, but the UVMapper program does not support 3DS or VRML. Okay, long winded story to tell you how I got back to using Hexagon. My workflow is planned as such, Rhino model into Hexagon the file choice is still open for suggestions to accomplish this. Once into Hexagon, uv map the textures onto the mesh and output into a 3DS file or VRML. If this output is not possible, please stop me at this point. The first geometry planned is the curb surfaces, I have spent the time breaking up the surfaces within Rhino to allow the use of smaller textures for memory management, also the possibility of stacking UV's if supported. There are quite a lot of curb surfaces to do, approximately 60 on each side of the street. I am still very new to hexagon, and fairly new to uv mapping. Can anyone suggest suitable tutorials to work through, also provide suggestions on what was stated above? I have included an image of the curb surfaces for reference. Thank you. Vince Attached Thumbnails

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18th September 2007, 05:31	#2 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	Hi Vince. I am not sure you need to do any unwrapping. If you made the original Rhino "curb" surface as one big untrimmed surface, then you could easily split it up into seperate surfaces (along isocurves) and then shrink them. Each surface would use the full UV space, essentially stacking them as you mentioned. Then you could use the same small image map on all of them... Of course Rhino does not have a utility for inspecting your UV's, but you could open them in Hexagon, take a look at the UV's in the UV view and maybe scale them to fit the map if necessary... shorty

18th September 2007, 17:19	#3 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Shorty, What is the shrinking doing, is it reducing the large single curb UV surface space down to match the smaller isocurve trimmed surfaces? You mention opening the UV's in Hexagon and adjusting them to fit the texture image. I suspect that this does not modify the geometry inside Hexagon, is that true? What tut do I look at to understand that workflow? I have looked at the supplied forum tut's and as of yet I do not understand what does and does not affect the geometry inside Hexagon. The other question I have is, when Hexagon writes out a 3DS or VRML file, does it save the UV and texture information, of this whole exercise could be in vain? Thanks for the help Shorty.

18th September 2007, 21:37	#4 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	Hi. When you shrink a surface, the hidden isocurves are deleted from the surface. The UV space of a Nurbs surface is always spread across the full extents of the untrimmed surface. So shrinking the surface also shrinks the UV's to match the new surface. If the shrunk surface is not trimmed in any way, then your UV's will occupy the full area of the surface (UV coordinates 0,0 to 1,1). This is great because you have perfect coordinates to match your exported mesh object. But the UV's of a Nurbs object can sometimes be non-uniform in certain areas becasue they are built around the isoparms in the surface. This means surface areas of high curvature change will have many isoparms and might have compressed UV space, and those areas of less curvature (less isoparms) might have stretched UV space. The only way to fix the UV's of a Nurbs surface is to rebuild the surface, which creates even spacing of the isoparms and then makes correctly proportioned UV space. So no UV editing would be required... But let's suppose you had a surface which rebuilding is not preferred, then you can always fix the UV's in an editor such as Hexagon. You are correct that editing UV's will not affect the mesh itself. It's a different data set. In Hexagon, you can basically just select an object, select the split viewport, then switch one of them to a UV view. If the UV grid is not perfect rectilinear, then you can select the UV rows or colums which need to be adjusted and just move them along the U and V axes using the manipulators. It's pretty easy, but it takes time to do by hand... Sorry i can't answer your question about exporting to those formats. I mostly use OBJ (to Rhino) or LWO (to Modo)... shorty

19th September 2007, 02:56	#5 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Shorty, Thanks for the info, I understand what you outlined. Do I know enough of Hexagon to do that, I doubt it. I will start a few tests and see what trouble I get into. Several test parts were run with the renderer today. I was able to get most of the curb and road in with sliced up surfaces and seamless textures. But that will not cut it on the house exterior surfaces and windows. They have to be UV mapped to provide realistic textures with dirt, fading paint, etc. I now that VRML specification supports texture output, you can see that in the browser viewers, but I do not know about the Hexagon program. The same goes for the 3DS file, Hexagon outptu unknown. When I output a 3DS file from Rhino, the textures will be output in the 3DS file if I remember to keep the names in a standard 8.3 format (Dos). Thanks for dragging me along Shorty. You seem to be the only consistant answer, I will have to learn French to try and fit it with the rest of the pack here. Grâce à chacun ici.

19th September 2007, 17:08	#6 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	Pas un problème! Hex's UV editor is pretty straight forward. Just play around and you'll quickly get the feel for it... shorty

20th September 2007, 23:15	#7 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Shorty, Just tried a wild idea and it panned out. If you read a mapped OBJ file into Rhino, then output the mapped mesh into VRML 2.0 with texture coordinates selected, everything is saved perfectly within the file. I tried this method with a section of the wall, sidewalk, and road with perfect results in the special renderer. This will make my life a lot easier. I just wanted to tell you if you run into a similar problem some time.

21st September 2007, 01:00	#8 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	Yep. Rhino's pretty good at the the old "in-out" . So which program did you finally use to create your UV maps? shorty

21st September 2007, 22:13	#9 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	UVMapper and Rhino for the complex ones, Hexagon for the simpler ones. I can only beat my head against the desk for so long at a given time.

24th September 2007, 23:42	#11 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	That is great news Shorty, I have not seen that message yet at McNeel forum. Must be slipping. Thanks for putting in the request, that would be a benefit to a lot of people. Regards Vince

25th September 2007, 02:53	#12 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	vkirchner your avatar reminds me of two guys at my previous work that used to go to bathroom together all the time. It was very strange cause they were both married with kids too but always planned their bathroom trip at the same time.

25th September 2007, 21:27	#13 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Oh man, I do not want to start any rumors like that. I will change the avatar immediately.

25th September 2007, 22:02	#14 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	a bumper to bumper to bumper accident...

26th September 2007, 00:08	#15 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Fond memories of past days.

26th September 2007, 00:18	#16 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	i know what you did last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last summer

26th September 2007, 02:47	#17 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Shhhhhh, don't tell my Wife, it will make her mad. That was before I married her. Been true to her ever since I laid eyes on her (27+ years).

26th September 2007, 03:37	#18 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	WOW! Congratulations on making it that far Vince. I am just approaching my first 18 months. Who knew that marriage would be so much work?! We should start a Polyloop relationship thread. So marriage newbies like me can get some good advice from an old pro such as yourself...

26th September 2007, 15:51	#19 (permalink)
vkirchner Boolean Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 93	Ha, I have made this far because she said that I was trainable. From everyone I have talked to, they say tongue in cheek that they only have to remember a few simple statements. 1. Yes Dear. 2. I was wrong. 3. I'm sorry. One of the Program Managers I work with has used a line which I like a lot. When he overlooks something he is supposed to see, or he is not paying attention, his Wife will ask him if he is listening to her. He will always state that he was "blinded by her beauty". I can see this working for a while, but she will eventually see through this.