Cleaning up a model - Polyloop

Burpee · 22nd April 2007, 22:19

I have taken a break from my usual programs to learn a couple that are sitting idle on my computer...Hex2.1 being one of them.

I started reading the manual and fell asleep. I am a visual learner, I can't help it. So I went to Daz3D and here and have been making teacups, oil drums and simple models. I found Nate Owens' character head model and thought I'd try just for the fun of it. This is what I came up with....or I should say, as far as I could go. As soon as I try to paint on displacement...well as soon as I do an 'undo' of it, the system crashes.

I showed the model to Aine over at 3DC and she said that I need to clean up geometry. Of course I don't know what this is. She said I have n-gons and stars and I should try to fix them by making them 4 sided.

Here's my question: My n-gons were created when I used ctrl and moved geometry like Nate did. His tut does not say anything about how to clean up. If I try to delete a line segment, it delets parts of my model. I am wondering how you all go about cleaning up your bad geometry?

Also, in the 4th part of his tut, it looks like he has already uvmapped his character...is this correct?

BTW-how would you go about breaking this up for mapping?

Even answering one of my questions would be a big help to me, thanks!

Piem · 22nd April 2007, 22:36

To set the Point select mode and use of the W (target_weld tool) could be useful.

But , you can run into errors, so don't forget that you can rebuild a line by selecting two non-connected lines and by pressing X (tesselate tool).

Also, I want to talk about another key the back-space key, to erase a line or a couple of lines (sometines, you'll have to select also the remaining points in the midle of a facet)

So , for me the answers are : W, X and Backspace

laughingnome · 22nd April 2007, 23:12

a good example of cleaning up geometry is this one by Sadot.
he took the lion head mesh provided in the models folder and created this from it.
notice he cleaned up all the tris and created a quad poly model, most likely using tess and backspace, like Piem said.

http://forums.polyloop.net/3d-work-p...lion-gate.html

stu

Burpee · 22nd April 2007, 23:51

Thank you both! Everyday I learn something new...I'm having fun. This is such a cool program.

Burpee · 23rd April 2007, 01:09

OMG!!! This is sooo hard!!! Isn't there a button to make a line from a point to a point like in Cinema?

Egads, I tesselate and it changes my model so much I'm not sure where I'm at. What I'm doing is tesselate a line and then having to move the points by welding. Or how about 'adding a point' button? Argh.

Yeah, I'm whining a bit but this takes all the fun out of having made this head. Maybe creating the head with faces is a better way, then you would know you had quads as you went along.

sadot · 23rd April 2007, 16:57

use the conect tool !

I create a shorcut in my Hex2 "c" key -i use a lot that tool-
Just select two pints and use that tool to create a line

Burpee · 23rd April 2007, 19:05

Thank you!

I redid Nate's tutorial and did a dragonhead this time. I think it's all quads. I checked as I went along. Maybe the best practice

I sure was proud of my first head though

Thank you everyone. I'm learning so much with everyone's help. Definitely could not do it on my own. Hugs!!

jbshorty · 23rd April 2007, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadot

use the conect tool !

I create a shorcut in my Hex2 "c" key -i use a lot that tool-
Just select two pints and use that tool to create a line

the "X" key (tesselate) will perform all functions of the "connect" tool, if you have pre-selected egdes or vertices before pressing "X". If nothing is preselected, then you go into the free tesselation mode...

shorty

laughingnome · 23rd April 2007, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbshorty

the "X" key (tesselate) will perform all functions of the "connect" tool, if you have pre-selected egdes or vertices before pressing "X". If nothing is preselected, then you go into the free tesselation mode...

shorty

yeah thats pretty much how i use it

stu

Nate Owens · 29th April 2007, 06:34

Burpee....

Sorry that you had difficulties with my little demo. I didn't actually call it a tutorial 'cause I don't consider myself qualified to do tutorials. Someone asked how I did the characters so I made that to show my process.

Now I look at it and cringe.

For one thing I have stretched the polys too much which is not good technique (it's best if they stay close in size... kind of like the mesh in your window screen is always the same even if you curve it).

Looking at the dude you made, I suspect that you may have done some edge extrudes outward rather than to the inside of the original edges. That will usually result in n-gons (polys that have other than 4 sides). There is a tool (you may have found it) in Hex that will select all non-4 sided polys. I always use it a lot. Another thing to be careful of is deleting lines or polys... this results in a hole in your model (as you discovered). Hitting the backspace key with a line selected will "erase" it... not delete it. This does not result in a hole in your model but will give you a poly with extra points where the line ends were - these need to be cleaned up (erased) too. It is complicated, so just hang in and you will get there!

Box modeling is a technique that not everyone likes... many like edge modeling, I just happen to like having a shape to pull around like clay, so I do the box thing.

You are off to a good start.... These guys at this forum will give you the right info and set you straight... they are tops.

I was in China (brief details on my web site ) and have been pretty busy so haven't been checking into the forums much lately.

Best wishes in your modeling creations... keep going!

jbshorty · 29th April 2007, 17:01

Good stuff, Nate! We never know where our path will lead us sometime. I've done a bot of design work for fashion items a few years ago for a company in China too. Never expected that to happen, though. Life sort of picks a road for us, i guess. We go with the flow and try to enjoy it while we can...

shorty

Burpee · 30th April 2007, 00:18

Hey Nate, thanks for responding. I thoroughly enjoyed doing your non-tut

You bring up two things I want to ask about. How do I delete a point? After I have highlighted the line and hit backspace, I now have the extra point...how do I get rid of it?

Second, WHAT tool will get rid of n-gons? I did not discover any tool that says it specifically gets rids of n-gons....perhaps some other terminology?

Nate Owens · 30th April 2007, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burpee

....How do I delete a point? After I have highlighted the line and hit backspace, I now have the extra point...how do I get rid of it?

Same way you did the line

Quote:

Second, WHAT tool will get rid of n-gons? I did not discover any tool that says it specifically gets rids of n-gons....perhaps some other terminology?

No such tool to my knowledge... there's one that finds and highlights them, but you need to study the situation and adjust as needed (each occasion is different) - after a bit of practice you get better at modeling and avoiding the little boogers

Burpee · 30th April 2007, 03:46

I appreciate the responses, so helpful, but please, what tool points them out to you?

And I see that there are two tools for triangulating lines and faces. I don't understand the need for this tool if quads is what we are afer.

Plum · 30th April 2007, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burpee

Second, WHAT tool will get rid of n-gons? I did not discover any tool that says it specifically gets rids of n-gons....perhaps some other terminology?

Hiya

You can, if you want to, use the "Decimate" tool set at 1.00. You will most likely want to go in and 'clean up' a bit, as it tends to triangulate a *bit* too much (ie, use 2 triangles when you could use a single quadangle). Do that in the same way you just figured out; select both faces and hit backspace.

You can also use the more logical choice of "Triangulate n-gons". ;) It's found under the "Utilities" tab iirc. Again, you might want to go in and do some clean up afterwords if you don't want/need all triangles.

If you only have a few n-gon's, you might be better off using the tesselate tool, using snap (hold Shift down when using it) to the points where you want to create an edge.

Burpee · 1st May 2007, 00:35

Thank you, very easy to understand explanation....I need that,

I feel like I should get a better grasp of what and how to clean up before I move on with Hex. I think it will make it easier in the long run.

22nd April 2007, 22:19	#1 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	Cleaning up a model I have taken a break from my usual programs to learn a couple that are sitting idle on my computer...Hex2.1 being one of them. I started reading the manual and fell asleep. I am a visual learner, I can't help it. So I went to Daz3D and here and have been making teacups, oil drums and simple models. I found Nate Owens' character head model and thought I'd try just for the fun of it. This is what I came up with....or I should say, as far as I could go. As soon as I try to paint on displacement...well as soon as I do an 'undo' of it, the system crashes. I showed the model to Aine over at 3DC and she said that I need to clean up geometry. Of course I don't know what this is. She said I have n-gons and stars and I should try to fix them by making them 4 sided. Here's my question: My n-gons were created when I used ctrl and moved geometry like Nate did. His tut does not say anything about how to clean up. If I try to delete a line segment, it delets parts of my model. I am wondering how you all go about cleaning up your bad geometry? Also, in the 4th part of his tut, it looks like he has already uvmapped his character...is this correct? BTW-how would you go about breaking this up for mapping? Even answering one of my questions would be a big help to me, thanks!

22nd April 2007, 23:12	#3 (permalink)
laughingnome stu Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 909	a good example of cleaning up geometry is this one by Sadot. he took the lion head mesh provided in the models folder and created this from it. notice he cleaned up all the tris and created a quad poly model, most likely using tess and backspace, like Piem said. http://forums.polyloop.net/3d-work-p...lion-gate.html stu __________________ just trying to cut down the pain threshold AMD2.4 dualcore 4 gig ram, 9400GT ,WinXP Home

23rd April 2007, 16:57	#6 (permalink)
sadot yeah! thats my name Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mexico City Posts: 720	use the conect tool ! I create a shorcut in my Hex2 "c" key -i use a lot that tool- Just select two pints and use that tool to create a line __________________ el mundo se crea un polígono a la vez

29th April 2007, 06:34	#10 (permalink)
Nate Owens Doodlin' Dude Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,013	Burpee.... Sorry that you had difficulties with my little demo. I didn't actually call it a tutorial 'cause I don't consider myself qualified to do tutorials. Someone asked how I did the characters so I made that to show my process. Now I look at it and cringe. For one thing I have stretched the polys too much which is not good technique (it's best if they stay close in size... kind of like the mesh in your window screen is always the same even if you curve it). Looking at the dude you made, I suspect that you may have done some edge extrudes outward rather than to the inside of the original edges. That will usually result in n-gons (polys that have other than 4 sides). There is a tool (you may have found it) in Hex that will select all non-4 sided polys. I always use it a lot. Another thing to be careful of is deleting lines or polys... this results in a hole in your model (as you discovered). Hitting the backspace key with a line selected will "erase" it... not delete it. This does not result in a hole in your model but will give you a poly with extra points where the line ends were - these need to be cleaned up (erased) too. It is complicated, so just hang in and you will get there! Box modeling is a technique that not everyone likes... many like edge modeling, I just happen to like having a shape to pull around like clay, so I do the box thing. You are off to a good start.... These guys at this forum will give you the right info and set you straight... they are tops. I was in China (brief details on my web site ) and have been pretty busy so haven't been checking into the forums much lately. Best wishes in your modeling creations... keep going! __________________ Shirts, MousePads, Stuff / The Gallery / Videos / Blog Last edited by Nate Owens; 29th April 2007 at 06:55.

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22nd April 2007, 22:36	#2 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,644	To set the Point select mode and use of the W (target_weld tool) could be useful. But , you can run into errors, so don't forget that you can rebuild a line by selecting two non-connected lines and by pressing X (tesselate tool). Also, I want to talk about another key the back-space key, to erase a line or a couple of lines (sometines, you'll have to select also the remaining points in the midle of a facet) So , for me the answers are : W, X and Backspace

22nd April 2007, 23:51	#4 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	Thank you both! Everyday I learn something new...I'm having fun. This is such a cool program.

23rd April 2007, 01:09	#5 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	OMG!!! This is sooo hard!!! Isn't there a button to make a line from a point to a point like in Cinema? Egads, I tesselate and it changes my model so much I'm not sure where I'm at. What I'm doing is tesselate a line and then having to move the points by welding. Or how about 'adding a point' button? Argh. Yeah, I'm whining a bit but this takes all the fun out of having made this head. Maybe creating the head with faces is a better way, then you would know you had quads as you went along.

23rd April 2007, 19:05	#7 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	Thank you! I redid Nate's tutorial and did a dragonhead this time. I think it's all quads. I checked as I went along. Maybe the best practice I sure was proud of my first head though Thank you everyone. I'm learning so much with everyone's help. Definitely could not do it on my own. Hugs!!

29th April 2007, 17:01	#11 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	Good stuff, Nate! We never know where our path will lead us sometime. I've done a bot of design work for fashion items a few years ago for a company in China too. Never expected that to happen, though. Life sort of picks a road for us, i guess. We go with the flow and try to enjoy it while we can... shorty

30th April 2007, 00:18	#12 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	Hey Nate, thanks for responding. I thoroughly enjoyed doing your non-tut You bring up two things I want to ask about. How do I delete a point? After I have highlighted the line and hit backspace, I now have the extra point...how do I get rid of it? Second, WHAT tool will get rid of n-gons? I did not discover any tool that says it specifically gets rids of n-gons....perhaps some other terminology?

30th April 2007, 03:46	#14 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	I appreciate the responses, so helpful, but please, what tool points them out to you? And I see that there are two tools for triangulating lines and faces. I don't understand the need for this tool if quads is what we are afer.

1st May 2007, 00:35	#16 (permalink)
Burpee Vertex Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15	Thank you, very easy to understand explanation....I need that, I feel like I should get a better grasp of what and how to clean up before I move on with Hex. I think it will make it easier in the long run.