Smoothing question - Polyloop

A3DLover · 18th March 2007, 06:45

When subdividing mods/surfaces is there any way to set the degree/amount of smoothing incremently?
At this point for my tastes- its either too much or way too much just on 1 or 2 setting.
Is there a setting window that will allow .100 instead of 1.00?

jbshorty · 18th March 2007, 15:42

Smoothing is either ON or OFF. If you want to keep your basic unsmoothed shape, but need softer edges, then you have to add more geometry to the model. On quick way it to select all faces, then tesselate mid-edge to mid-edge (the + pattern). Or you can select all those edges that you want to hold their shape, and bevel them...

shorty

A3DLover · 18th March 2007, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Smoothing is either ON or OFF. If you want to keep your basic unsmoothed shape, but need softer edges, then you have to add more geometry to the model. On quick way it to select all faces, then tesselate mid-edge to mid-edge (the + pattern). Or you can select all those edges that you want to hold their shape, and bevel them...

shorty

That it is disappointing for sure

i'll have to look at other packages
In my range $$$

Thanks

jbshorty · 18th March 2007, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by A3DLover

That it is disappointing for sure

i'll have to look at other packages
In my range $$$

Thanks

Modo ?

carrozza · 18th March 2007, 20:56

Just a guess: I think is difficult to get "less" smoothing because - as far as I know - smoothing is made by tessellating the model.
It seems that smoothing "splits" tris into two triangles and quads into four quadrangles.
So maybe it's not possible to achieve a partial smoothing between steps 0, 1, 2, etc.

A3DLover · 18th March 2007, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Modo ?

I just havent looked at that modo yet i was thinking lightwave
or maya since i have little experience with those wares and
thats very little experience.
Im wondering if i can install a dual core on my current board
cause i have slots for 4 gig of ram and i can probably really bump up the gcard- current is 128mb geforce fx 5200, 1 gig of ram and xp pro
Abit IS7 M/Board.
Anyway i'll have a look at modo.
Thanks guys

rickei · 18th March 2007, 22:59

what are you trying to accomplish?
All apps will smooth about the same as Hex. like carrozza said smoothing is based on subdivisions. Modo is the same way

if you add more geometry then the smoothing is not as great.
all you need to do is add geometry/tessellate where you don't want it as smooth. you can leave the rest alone

see attached screen shot... all with level 1 smoothing

jbshorty · 19th March 2007, 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickei

...All apps will smooth about the same as Hex... Modo is the same way...

Yes, the smoothing algorithm is the same. But Modo has fully adjustable smoothing weights that can be set by by edge, vertex, or face. Here is a screenshot of a 6-polygon cube, smoothed to 18 levels, and then I adjusted the weighting of all 6 edges to 25.5% (really this means it is smoothed 74.5%). I think this is what A3DLover was looking for, which Hexagon can not do. Not sure about Maya or Lightwave, I've never used them...

shorty

rickei · 19th March 2007, 02:36

isn't weighting the edges, is the same as adding geometry only to an edge?

It's been a while since i used Modo, and I have not installed it on my new machine so i can not test this, but from my memory, when you export an .obj from modo, the smoothing is the same as Hex. just the edge geometry is done automatically if you use weighting

how many polys do you get when you export, the cube you showed? and what does the geometry look like???

just curious... i have a job coming up that I am afraid will be very heavy in polys, and if i can find some way of shaving off even a few polys, it could make a big difference in the end.

Maybe i should install Modo tonight.

Patrick210 · 19th March 2007, 05:17

Hexagon can do this. If you choose the "smoothing " tool under "surface modeling" and then select the middle type of smoothing in the properties tray, "Bezier interpolation", it allows for partial smoothing of different ranges.

jbshorty · 19th March 2007, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick210

Hexagon can do this. If you choose the "smoothing " tool under "surface modeling" and then select the middle type of smoothing in the properties tray, "Bezier interpolation", it allows for partial smoothing of different ranges.

That one possible solution. But it's such a different type of smoothing that it would require a different eye for modeling altogether. Firstly because the surface edges will be interpolated through those points. It would make the smoothed faces bulge, while the vertices remain in position. That is quite different than Catmull Clark subdivision. And difficult to control. Secondly because you can't directly edit a Hexagon model with bezier smoothing applied. So you would have to model the unsmoothed cage, and then constantly smooth/unsmooth to check how the final model will look. the workflow would be terrible... Also I can't think of any rendering or animation apps which support bezier smoothing. I don't even think Carrara supports it. So the mesh would have to be collapsed to high-res for export... I think Doo-Sabin smoothing can produce really nice results, and it allows direct editing of the control mesh. But again, it has to be exported as a high-res mesh...

shorty

jbshorty · 19th March 2007, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickei

isn't weighting the edges, is the same as adding geometry only to an edge?

It's been a while since i used Modo, and I have not installed it on my new machine so i can not test this, but from my memory, when you export an .obj from modo, the smoothing is the same as Hex. just the edge geometry is done automatically if you use weighting

how many polys do you get when you export, the cube you showed? and what does the geometry look like???

just curious... i have a job coming up that I am afraid will be very heavy in polys, and if i can find some way of shaving off even a few polys, it could make a big difference in the end.

Maybe i should install Modo tonight.

I am only just learning Modo, so i don't know exactly how you duplicate the same edge weighting on export. Modo does not add hidden geometry. The weighting data is stored in a vertex map. I suppose this map might be exportable, and then could be reapplied in another program. but i can't swear to this. I don't know what program use this same weighting method. But if you posted a question on the Modo forums, somebody will give you experienced advice... In the worst case, you just Model/UV everything in Modo and export the high-res mesh...

shorty

Patrick210 · 19th March 2007, 15:06

I basically agree with you Shorty, just trying to give an alternative. I've never had a problem modeling whatever I like using basic subdivision and poly modeling in Hexagon the regular way.

Plum · 19th March 2007, 23:08

Hiya.

A3DLover, if you're still around, maybe you should check out Softimage|XSI. You get some kick-ass modeling tools, as well as awesome rendering, animation, etc. And, honestly, for $500 it's a steal!

A3DLover · 21st March 2007, 16:12

Thanks for all the input guys im so used to the smoothing options in anim8or because you can do it incremently in that ware but in hex the chamfer tool approximates the type of smoothing i like on hard edges but y'all pointed out some good work arounds/tool use.

laughingnome · 22nd March 2007, 00:24

interesting that nobodys mentioned the dissociate tool regarding smoothing

stu

A3DLover · 22nd March 2007, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by laughingnome

interesting that nobodys mentioned the dissociate tool regarding smoothing

stu

LoL! Thats funny Stu!
I've probably only used %25 of the available buttons/options
in Hex2,bryce about%50 and anim8or about %65 of the options.
I've only had hex2 about 2 weeks for i signed up here so got lotsa
stuff learn about it.
Thanks

laughingnome · 22nd March 2007, 00:51

wasnt meant as a joke Tod just thought it was interesting that everyones beveling or wieghting in other apps.
regarding controling smoothing and the dissociate tool ill post a quickie tut tommorow bud.

stu

A3DLover · 22nd March 2007, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by laughingnome

wasnt meant as a joke Tod just thought it was interesting that everyones beveling or wieghting in other apps.
regarding controling smoothing and the dissociate tool ill post a quickie tut tommorow bud.

stu

Ok your serious but a little levity struck me at the suggestion.
LoL's wasnt on my mind when i selected lines on a very small
model and the disociate button cause it locked up my pc like fort knox.
So this is what i ended up with as the result (see pic) i had to use taskmanager to shut hex down.

jbshorty · 22nd March 2007, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by laughingnome

wasnt meant as a joke Tod just thought it was interesting that everyones beveling or wieghting in other apps.
regarding controling smoothing and the dissociate tool ill post a quickie tut tommorow bud.

stu

but eventually you'd have to come back and weld those broken verts, and then bevel the edges anyway, so

?

18th March 2007, 06:45	#1 (permalink)
A3DLover hobbyist Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 89	Smoothing question When subdividing mods/surfaces is there any way to set the degree/amount of smoothing incremently? At this point for my tastes- its either too much or way too much just on 1 or 2 setting. Is there a setting window that will allow .100 instead of 1.00?

18th March 2007, 22:59	#7 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 791	what are you trying to accomplish? All apps will smooth about the same as Hex. like carrozza said smoothing is based on subdivisions. Modo is the same way if you add more geometry then the smoothing is not as great. all you need to do is add geometry/tessellate where you don't want it as smooth. you can leave the rest alone see attached screen shot... all with level 1 smoothing Attached Thumbnails

19th March 2007, 23:08	#14 (permalink)
Plum NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 133	Hiya. A3DLover, if you're still around, maybe you should check out Softimage\|XSI. You get some kick-ass modeling tools, as well as awesome rendering, animation, etc. And, honestly, for $500 it's a steal! __________________ ^_^ "We've got a blind date with destiny...and it looks like she's ordered the lobster." --The Shoveler Paul L. Ming (Dual Opteron 246's, 2GB GDDR3, BFG 7800 GS OC 256MB, Windows 2000 & XP Pro 64-Bit, 21" CTR) Last edited by laughingnome; 21st March 2007 at 22:49.

22nd March 2007, 00:24	#16 (permalink)
laughingnome stu Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 909	interesting that nobodys mentioned the dissociate tool regarding smoothing stu __________________ just trying to cut down the pain threshold AMD2.4 dualcore 4 gig ram, 9400GT ,WinXP Home

22nd March 2007, 00:51	#18 (permalink)
laughingnome stu Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 909	wasnt meant as a joke Tod just thought it was interesting that everyones beveling or wieghting in other apps. regarding controling smoothing and the dissociate tool ill post a quickie tut tommorow bud. stu __________________ just trying to cut down the pain threshold AMD2.4 dualcore 4 gig ram, 9400GT ,WinXP Home

18th March 2007, 15:42	#2 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,367	Smoothing is either ON or OFF. If you want to keep your basic unsmoothed shape, but need softer edges, then you have to add more geometry to the model. On quick way it to select all faces, then tesselate mid-edge to mid-edge (the + pattern). Or you can select all those edges that you want to hold their shape, and bevel them... shorty

18th March 2007, 20:56	#5 (permalink)
carrozza NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 106	Just a guess: I think is difficult to get "less" smoothing because - as far as I know - smoothing is made by tessellating the model. It seems that smoothing "splits" tris into two triangles and quads into four quadrangles. So maybe it's not possible to achieve a partial smoothing between steps 0, 1, 2, etc.

19th March 2007, 02:36	#9 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 791	isn't weighting the edges, is the same as adding geometry only to an edge? It's been a while since i used Modo, and I have not installed it on my new machine so i can not test this, but from my memory, when you export an .obj from modo, the smoothing is the same as Hex. just the edge geometry is done automatically if you use weighting how many polys do you get when you export, the cube you showed? and what does the geometry look like??? just curious... i have a job coming up that I am afraid will be very heavy in polys, and if i can find some way of shaving off even a few polys, it could make a big difference in the end. Maybe i should install Modo tonight.

19th March 2007, 05:17	#10 (permalink)
Patrick210 Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 549	Hexagon can do this. If you choose the "smoothing " tool under "surface modeling" and then select the middle type of smoothing in the properties tray, "Bezier interpolation", it allows for partial smoothing of different ranges.

19th March 2007, 15:06	#13 (permalink)
Patrick210 Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 549	I basically agree with you Shorty, just trying to give an alternative. I've never had a problem modeling whatever I like using basic subdivision and poly modeling in Hexagon the regular way.

21st March 2007, 16:12	#15 (permalink)
A3DLover hobbyist Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 89	Thanks for all the input guys im so used to the smoothing options in anim8or because you can do it incremently in that ware but in hex the chamfer tool approximates the type of smoothing i like on hard edges but y'all pointed out some good work arounds/tool use.

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