Manipulator - Polyloop

rickei · 10th March 2007, 19:31

OK I have a serious problem, that I have been dealing with for over a month.

Hex will no longer respect the manipulator initialization mode. It does not matter if i have it set to Selection, World, or Bbox. I have already reset prefs , I have even reinstalled. no help. this just suddenly started and will not go away. I have not changed anything with my system

BTW. I posted this when the problem started, but I can't see any threads beyond the first 20 in the Hex forum.???

here is a screen shot of what I am getting
I can not extrude straight out or up

this is only a problem with face/box modeling. lines extrude fine

jbshorty · 10th March 2007, 20:15

that's bad news for you, buddy. I had this same thing start happening to me a few months ago. Also, i could not snap to objects anymore. And the manipulators were completely disregarding the pivot points. Then it got worse, and many times Hex tools don;t work at all unless i CTR+ALT+DEL to open Task Manager, and then it allows me to resume the command. I have to do this between every command! Then the problem went away after a few weeks. Now it's reappeared on BOTH of my PC's, making Hex unusable. And no matter what i do (tried resetting preferences) Hex still does not work properly. I fixed the problem by buying Modo

. I wish i could tell you how to fix the problem, but in my case nothing has helped... But at least you're not the only one, right?

rickei · 10th March 2007, 20:33

yea! misery loves company. I have Modo... thats why I got Hex.

BTW. I'm on a Mac so it's not a platform issue.

Piem · 10th March 2007, 20:58

Is DG collapsed ?

Very strange in fact

Couerl · 10th March 2007, 21:16

For fast extrusion, it's normal for the manipulator to "dissapear". You can drag the face to any location after the extrusion is complete and make it straight or rotate the face or whatever. You should be using axial extrusion for that anyway if you want it to project straight out.
Sweeps and extrusions behave a little differently to begin with, but imagine instead of sweeping out a rectangle that you are actually just drawing a line. The line is invisible along the center of the sweep or extrusion, yet you can see it in full-dg mode as the control line. The sweep or extrusion path just follows that line and skins a rectangle (or whatever) around it. You can see also that you have 2 layer DG in restricted mode in a perspective view. Try collapsing the dg before you do the sweep and see how that goes. Also remember that in perspective, the way you draw lines is based on where your camera is positioned. Unlike Carrara VM when you draw a polyline, Hex keeps the line on a single plane or "depth", whereas Carrara does not. You can't tell when you draw polyines in the VM whether they're 'flat' or extend outward and away for great distances. Hex gets around this by using the Camera as a guide to set up which direction and on what plane you can actually draw a line. You can see this effect easily enough by inserting a sphere while viewing along the y plane and doing the same thing from the z plane. How does Hex know which way you want to align the poles of the sphere? It uses the camera or viewport to "steer" it.

Couerl · 11th March 2007, 00:08

Okay Rickei, Maybe this will help shed a little light. Thomas can probably explain it technically better, or Wayne or someone, but this is what I know.

http://3dsplash.com/extrusion/Forms/AllItems.aspx

rickei · 11th March 2007, 01:59

Steven,
thanks for all of the time spent to explain this.
however, I know how those tools work
I must have had a "Good Bug". because I could quick extrude multiple faces the same way I can quick extrude edges.

It made things much quicker and precise.

I used to be able to quick extrude faces like this edge extrusion
http://ilovehex.com/sample4.mov

Couerl · 11th March 2007, 03:06

Hmm. I've never been able to exrude like that, only sweep.

Truth be told though I usually only use fast extrude on edges anyway.
I wonder if Thomas knows something about it.

Thomas · 11th March 2007, 13:15

It's not the extrusion you have to take, but the sweep tool (or the last option) and if you want to change the radius, use the right click.
In this tool, the world/selection/bbox manipulator orientation don't have any usage, it's only for the manipulators dans not the tools.

rickei · 11th March 2007, 15:40

Thanks guys,

I guess I just had a bug???? I have created several models using fast extrude on faces and it worked beautifully. weird.

I guess it turns out that my favorite tool was not a tool at all

oh well... I've been practicing the "proper" way to sweep.

and I should have my new work flow once I get used to it.

thanks again

Grendel · 11th March 2007, 15:59

Your screencap on the right looks correct, here is a related problem another user had on the same: http://forums.polyloop.net/hexagon-t...-camera-4.html

10th March 2007, 19:31	#1 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 791	Manipulator OK I have a serious problem, that I have been dealing with for over a month. Hex will no longer respect the manipulator initialization mode. It does not matter if i have it set to Selection, World, or Bbox. I have already reset prefs , I have even reinstalled. no help. this just suddenly started and will not go away. I have not changed anything with my system BTW. I posted this when the problem started, but I can't see any threads beyond the first 20 in the Hex forum.??? here is a screen shot of what I am getting I can not extrude straight out or up this is only a problem with face/box modeling. lines extrude fine Attached Thumbnails

11th March 2007, 13:15	#9 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,319	It's not the extrusion you have to take, but the sweep tool (or the last option) and if you want to change the radius, use the right click. In this tool, the world/selection/bbox manipulator orientation don't have any usage, it's only for the manipulators dans not the tools. __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

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10th March 2007, 20:15	#2 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,367	that's bad news for you, buddy. I had this same thing start happening to me a few months ago. Also, i could not snap to objects anymore. And the manipulators were completely disregarding the pivot points. Then it got worse, and many times Hex tools don;t work at all unless i CTR+ALT+DEL to open Task Manager, and then it allows me to resume the command. I have to do this between every command! Then the problem went away after a few weeks. Now it's reappeared on BOTH of my PC's, making Hex unusable. And no matter what i do (tried resetting preferences) Hex still does not work properly. I fixed the problem by buying Modo . I wish i could tell you how to fix the problem, but in my case nothing has helped... But at least you're not the only one, right?

10th March 2007, 20:33	#3 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 791	yea! misery loves company. I have Modo... thats why I got Hex. BTW. I'm on a Mac so it's not a platform issue.

10th March 2007, 20:58	#4 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,644	Is DG collapsed ? Very strange in fact

10th March 2007, 21:16	#5 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	For fast extrusion, it's normal for the manipulator to "dissapear". You can drag the face to any location after the extrusion is complete and make it straight or rotate the face or whatever. You should be using axial extrusion for that anyway if you want it to project straight out. Sweeps and extrusions behave a little differently to begin with, but imagine instead of sweeping out a rectangle that you are actually just drawing a line. The line is invisible along the center of the sweep or extrusion, yet you can see it in full-dg mode as the control line. The sweep or extrusion path just follows that line and skins a rectangle (or whatever) around it. You can see also that you have 2 layer DG in restricted mode in a perspective view. Try collapsing the dg before you do the sweep and see how that goes. Also remember that in perspective, the way you draw lines is based on where your camera is positioned. Unlike Carrara VM when you draw a polyline, Hex keeps the line on a single plane or "depth", whereas Carrara does not. You can't tell when you draw polyines in the VM whether they're 'flat' or extend outward and away for great distances. Hex gets around this by using the Camera as a guide to set up which direction and on what plane you can actually draw a line. You can see this effect easily enough by inserting a sphere while viewing along the y plane and doing the same thing from the z plane. How does Hex know which way you want to align the poles of the sphere? It uses the camera or viewport to "steer" it.

11th March 2007, 00:08	#6 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Okay Rickei, Maybe this will help shed a little light. Thomas can probably explain it technically better, or Wayne or someone, but this is what I know. http://3dsplash.com/extrusion/Forms/AllItems.aspx

11th March 2007, 01:59	#7 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 791	Steven, thanks for all of the time spent to explain this. however, I know how those tools work I must have had a "Good Bug". because I could quick extrude multiple faces the same way I can quick extrude edges. It made things much quicker and precise. I used to be able to quick extrude faces like this edge extrusion http://ilovehex.com/sample4.mov

11th March 2007, 03:06	#8 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Hmm. I've never been able to exrude like that, only sweep. Truth be told though I usually only use fast extrude on edges anyway. I wonder if Thomas knows something about it.

11th March 2007, 15:40	#10 (permalink)
rickei Respect the Dawg! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA - Conway, South Carolina Posts: 791	Thanks guys, I guess I just had a bug???? I have created several models using fast extrude on faces and it worked beautifully. weird. I guess it turns out that my favorite tool was not a tool at all oh well... I've been practicing the "proper" way to sweep. and I should have my new work flow once I get used to it. thanks again

11th March 2007, 15:59	#11 (permalink)
Grendel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,264	Your screencap on the right looks correct, here is a related problem another user had on the same: http://forums.polyloop.net/hexagon-t...-camera-4.html