Daz truth for Eoviaites - Polyloop

manleystanley · 12th October 2006, 14:40

Well I finally got the answers I wanted, not the actual answers I wanted, but the questions I have had sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex have been answered.
And no, Daz will not be fixing Carrara 5 or Hex 2. You can stop waiting for them now. It wont be happening. If you want fixes to the bugs in C5 you'll have to buy C6, if you want Hex2 to work as advertised you have to buy H3. And if there are any bugs in them, well you'll just have to wait for the next version for them to get fixed.
So, in other words, Daz is doing exactaly what I have been saying they were going to do right along; and was assured by several Daz associates was not the case. Yes Daz will be charging us for fixes/updates by just not releasing any. All fixes and updates that could be released now, will be part; and probebly the biggest part, of the next versions of Carrara and Hex.
I would like to thank Daz and it's employies for lieing to us, jerking us around, and playing this dambed smoke and mirrors game sence they bought Carrara and Hex. The truth is out, and we got screwed.
Well I'm done with Daz, and wont be spending another dime there. I will be letting my Pclub membership run out, and am looking for replacements for C5 and H2.
I'm sorry, but C5pro is a rather large investment for poor folk like my self. I can ill aford to buy the new version just to get bug fixes.

I know the day and age of this is long gone, but I'll give it a try anyway. Eoviaites unite, I'm asking all of us to boycott Daz till these issues are resolved. Let's not just sit around and allow Daz to screw us out of updates/fixes to these programs that we have been assured we would get sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex.
And to Daz flunkies, please, I have been lied to sence Daz bought C5 and H2. I was assured that we would not be paying for fixes, well look, now we are. So please do not waist my time with any more smoke and mirrors on this subject. There is no justification for this, so don't even try.

LoneGunman · 12th October 2006, 17:16

I told ya, didn't I ???

And, how exactly would you boycott DAZ ?

I already did, only upgrading if it's gonna have hair and cloth simulation (i'm aware that it will not be rendering engine fixes, that is for version 7>).

Nah, I think that all the content importing people are gonna wet themselfs when DAZ announces that import for ALL their stuff is working perfectly. They will suck it up and upgrade, so your voice will not count against that, ever.

Azeiku · 12th October 2006, 18:01

I'm thinking Modo looks great! But then again.. if they do another 1.99 release of Hex3 I might have to give them my money again. Other than that. If it's well over $199. I'm going to Luxology for sure. I too am sick of them jerking around and most of their users seem to need clothing for their V3 models. That's crap.

Azeiku

jbshorty · 12th October 2006, 18:11

Stanley, how'd you get so jaded

?... Seriously, the lost sales of a few hundred (maybe several thousand) non-content users is a minor threat when compared to the potential upgrade sales towards content users. The only people who can hurt DAZ is DAZ... Anyway, buying software is no different than buying a car. You may have the full warranty, but you're still ass-out if that company goes out of business or decides not to produce replacement parts!!!

Couerl · 12th October 2006, 19:03

Why anyone would expect "bug" fixes in C5 at this stage of the game is beyond me, I've never read anywhere that C5 was going to get any more patches and even Charles asked a few times "last call for any bugs" about 6 months ago. It's overall less buggy than previous versions of Carrara and if C6is on schedule, that could be released anywhere from Dec 06 to April 07.

I did see H2 in the last chat getting a pardon and Bob said the next patch would be free. (Maybe that's why he doesn't work there anymore) :|

Anyway, to me it is of little consequence, I still have plenty to do and in the long run I'll continue to use forward looking software like Hexagon to model with. I havn't had any errors, crashes or bugs in months and months and I think it's because I've learned all the nuances it has and know how to keep them from springing up. It's all about methodology and common sense modeling. I'd rather model in a program that takes risks, has more features and does things other programs cannot do than model in something far less capable and works perfectly every single time and is more forgiving to the novice user.

Sketchy · 12th October 2006, 19:50

Like I've stated in some forgettable thread, I'm not a fan of zbrush-like modeling. I upgraded to Hex2, but those features didn't work well on my machine. I'm still using 1.21 for serious subd modeling work. I really don't care much about H2 bug fixes. Though I'd be glad to have them for free. I'm only doing still images, anyway. C5 and Hex1.21 are enough at the moment.

I don't expect C6 to be released anytime soon, but I expect it to be big when it's released. I may no longer need Hexagon, Blender or any of the other tools littering my pc for that matter.

I'd be happy when that happens. And that's the end of it. No need to consider buying any app.

steama · 13th October 2006, 20:16

What really matters is that one is satisfied with DAZ or not.

If not satisfied there are many great alternatives out there for you.

No need to boycott DAZ. Their customers that like them will stick around and those that are feed up will leave. Simple.

The main thing is to enjoy what you are doing and remember that things will always change no matter what direction you take. Be ready to adjust and support your efforts.

Happy 3ding,
Stan

laughingnome · 13th October 2006, 22:02

ok guys,
i asked at Daz and so far they are saying that upgrades to version2 are free.

stu

steama · 13th October 2006, 22:21

That is great if there is going to be an update 'before' a Hexagon 3 release. I hope so. That would be nice.

That said I think Hexagon is an amazing tool. I will upgrade to Hexagon 3 whether DAZ updates 2 or not provided it functions as promoted by then. I will wait until everyone else plays around with Hex 3 and see if it all works first.

Stan

jbshorty · 13th October 2006, 23:01

stu, i think Ringo said they had "no plans to not release" an update before H3

. that's not exactly a guarantee of a 2.2 update. We all know that a company's best intentions may be influenced by their bottom line.

steama, everybody says that now. but what's everybody gonna do when DAZ starts offering sweet discounts on pre-orders of H3? I bet there's still a LOT of people who will jump on it, even though we all witnessed how risky it is to purchase anything before public release...

steama · 14th October 2006, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbshorty

steama, everybody says that now. but what's everybody gonna do when DAZ starts offering sweet discounts on pre-orders of H3? I bet there's still a LOT of people who will jump on it, even though we all witnessed how risky it is to purchase anything before public release...

I have heard that DAZ does not do pre-orders though Eovia did. I can promise I will not pre-order unless it is $2 bucks.

How much can a Hexagon 3 upgrade cost anyway (I bet it is under $100)?

Stan

manleystanley · 14th October 2006, 04:50

Except for one big bug; well it bugs me big time, I love Carrara 5, and would probebly get an upgrade to 6, but not if 5 dosen't get fixed. Basicly if they don't fix 5 why would I beleave they would fix any bugs in 6.
And for modeling Hex2 is hard to beat. But I wanted to do uvpainting, and displacements with it too. So I'm still texturing in C5. Not a bad thing as it's the only program I can do uvmapping with; I mean the only one I have figured out how to.
RingoM has taken back what he had said, and explained he had said it out of turm. Some how I get the fealing he got a PM from the powers that be. But I'm not going to give up. I'm fed up with Daz's smoke and mirrors, I'm sick of vague answers, so I intend to stay at this; on the Daz forum, till I get some concrete answers.
I really can't say too much bad about Daz. Yes they are very market orinented, but that is to be expected. And they do give some real good insentives and deals to keep customers active. But I am not a mushroom

Nichod · 14th October 2006, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by manleystanley

Well I finally got the answers I wanted, not the actual answers I wanted, but the questions I have had sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex have been answered.
And no, Daz will not be fixing Carrara 5 or Hex 2. You can stop waiting for them now. It wont be happening. If you want fixes to the bugs in C5 you'll have to buy C6, if you want Hex2 to work as advertised you have to buy H3. And if there are any bugs in them, well you'll just have to wait for the next version for them to get fixed.
So, in other words, Daz is doing exactaly what I have been saying they were going to do right along; and was assured by several Daz associates was not the case. Yes Daz will be charging us for fixes/updates by just not releasing any. All fixes and updates that could be released now, will be part; and probebly the biggest part, of the next versions of Carrara and Hex.
I would like to thank Daz and it's employies for lieing to us, jerking us around, and playing this dambed smoke and mirrors game sence they bought Carrara and Hex. The truth is out, and we got screwed.
Well I'm done with Daz, and wont be spending another dime there. I will be letting my Pclub membership run out, and am looking for replacements for C5 and H2.
I'm sorry, but C5pro is a rather large investment for poor folk like my self. I can ill aford to buy the new version just to get bug fixes.

I know the day and age of this is long gone, but I'll give it a try anyway. Eoviaites unite, I'm asking all of us to boycott Daz till these issues are resolved. Let's not just sit around and allow Daz to screw us out of updates/fixes to these programs that we have been assured we would get sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex.
And to Daz flunkies, please, I have been lied to sence Daz bought C5 and H2. I was assured that we would not be paying for fixes, well look, now we are. So please do not waist my time with any more smoke and mirrors on this subject. There is no justification for this, so don't even try.

And where are you getting your info? I don't expect a Carrara update as it is quite stable. I'm not sure what bugs are preventing you from using it, but I haven't come across any show stoppers.

As far as Hexagon is concerned, I don't think we'll see a patch or update soon, but I would expect that we will see a patch before version 3. And this has been stated by many at Daz. One such example is in the chat session they had.

Unless you are directly affiliated with Daz I don't see how you can have any reliable info on what we can expect. And speculation never leads to anything good.

Piem · 14th October 2006, 19:13

Dito.. I haven't seen any critical bugs in Carrara5 ...since a long time in fact .

The only bad thing I got could be the "auto-update" preview with displacement and SSS, but since I have disabled this default setting..All is ok..I know some people who had memory bugs during the render, this I have not, even with gigs of bitmaps ..

Ok, now I was talking about stills.

E-Z · 17th October 2006, 11:42

will Hexagon 3 be just a patch or a upgrade?
they need to stay away from AO because its really not that important when dealing with just a polymodler tool.

i dont know what more they can add for polymodling because they have alot all ready
the only thing i see is maybe some new shaders and stuuf

manleystanley · 17th October 2006, 14:22

Nichod, RingoM; the Daz leason for Carrara and Hex said there would be no updates for Carrara5. He then deffended Daz by saying Eovia never did any updates after .1, with that logic there would be no updates to Hex2 ether. As I said he later retracted the statement.
The bug with C5 is well known by thoughs that build poser sceans in C5. You can't morph a figure then use an imported pose, it 0's all morphs.
No one has official said there would be updates. The possabilety has been vaguely alluded to, but not anything concrete. I just seems that if there was going to be updates it wouldn't be so difficult to get a conformation from Daz.

steama · 17th October 2006, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by manleystanley

The bug with C5 is well known by thoughs that build poser sceans in C5. You can't morph a figure then use an imported pose, it 0's all morphs.

Well you can forget about future Carrara versions working with future Poser versions unless efrontier does not change much from Poser 6 to Poser 7.

DAZ has not had a recent Poser SDK (my guess) from efrontier (maybe never)...look at DAZ|Studio. DAZ and efrontier are competitors on almost every front. DAZ|Studio vs Poser, DAZ Carrara vs Shade, DAZ content vs efrontier content, DAZ Hexagon vs The original Hexagon dev team and future Amapi and DAZ Bryce vs Vue (efrontier's pal).

The Carrara/Poser marriage is over, done, dead and buried. Carrara future will only work with DAZ models and software...so might as well forget about Carrara and Poser working together from here on out.

If you want to use Poser with other 3d applications your best bet will be Shade or Vue.

IMHO,
Stan

And very much I doubt you will see any more updates for Carrara or Hexagon until the next major release of these products. Also IMHO.

Pete Exxtreme · 17th October 2006, 21:40

..to complete what Steama said, C4D has has also a third party plug-in for Poser ....(http://www.e-frontier.com/go/bodystudioc4d)

(not for free as usual)

manleystanley · 18th October 2006, 01:50

What I have is what I have. I can't ford to jump ship. I have Poser 5, and C5 will load P6 stuff. But I have a fealing e-F and Daz are about to have a rude awakening. Is anyone keeping up with Make human?

As far as C5 using P7 stuff, I have a huge library of P4-P6 stuff. More then I'll ever use. So I'm not too worried. And I only need the Poser figures/clothes. I make most everything else myself; including new skins for the figures, well C5 shaders stacked with G2.5 textures.

E-Z · 18th October 2006, 12:47

Daz better have a Demo of Hexagon 3
because by seeing people complaining previously about bugs
i dought they would buy it unless they tryed it first.

Eovia knew about the bugs thats why they sold it.

12th October 2006, 14:40	#1 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Daz truth for Eoviaites Well I finally got the answers I wanted, not the actual answers I wanted, but the questions I have had sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex have been answered. And no, Daz will not be fixing Carrara 5 or Hex 2. You can stop waiting for them now. It wont be happening. If you want fixes to the bugs in C5 you'll have to buy C6, if you want Hex2 to work as advertised you have to buy H3. And if there are any bugs in them, well you'll just have to wait for the next version for them to get fixed. So, in other words, Daz is doing exactaly what I have been saying they were going to do right along; and was assured by several Daz associates was not the case. Yes Daz will be charging us for fixes/updates by just not releasing any. All fixes and updates that could be released now, will be part; and probebly the biggest part, of the next versions of Carrara and Hex. I would like to thank Daz and it's employies for lieing to us, jerking us around, and playing this dambed smoke and mirrors game sence they bought Carrara and Hex. The truth is out, and we got screwed. Well I'm done with Daz, and wont be spending another dime there. I will be letting my Pclub membership run out, and am looking for replacements for C5 and H2. I'm sorry, but C5pro is a rather large investment for poor folk like my self. I can ill aford to buy the new version just to get bug fixes. I know the day and age of this is long gone, but I'll give it a try anyway. Eoviaites unite, I'm asking all of us to boycott Daz till these issues are resolved. Let's not just sit around and allow Daz to screw us out of updates/fixes to these programs that we have been assured we would get sence Daz bought Carrara and Hex. And to Daz flunkies, please, I have been lied to sence Daz bought C5 and H2. I was assured that we would not be paying for fixes, well look, now we are. So please do not waist my time with any more smoke and mirrors on this subject. There is no justification for this, so don't even try. __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

12th October 2006, 17:16	#2 (permalink)
LoneGunman SILO abuser Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Louisville, KY USA Posts: 556	I told ya, didn't I ??? And, how exactly would you boycott DAZ ? I already did, only upgrading if it's gonna have hair and cloth simulation (i'm aware that it will not be rendering engine fixes, that is for version 7>). Nah, I think that all the content importing people are gonna wet themselfs when DAZ announces that import for ALL their stuff is working perfectly. They will suck it up and upgrade, so your voice will not count against that, ever. __________________ My missions are not impossible, I just make them look that way

13th October 2006, 22:02	#8 (permalink)
laughingnome stu Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 909	ok guys, i asked at Daz and so far they are saying that upgrades to version2 are free. stu __________________ just trying to cut down the pain threshold AMD2.4 dualcore 4 gig ram, 9400GT ,WinXP Home

14th October 2006, 04:50	#12 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Except for one big bug; well it bugs me big time, I love Carrara 5, and would probebly get an upgrade to 6, but not if 5 dosen't get fixed. Basicly if they don't fix 5 why would I beleave they would fix any bugs in 6. And for modeling Hex2 is hard to beat. But I wanted to do uvpainting, and displacements with it too. So I'm still texturing in C5. Not a bad thing as it's the only program I can do uvmapping with; I mean the only one I have figured out how to. RingoM has taken back what he had said, and explained he had said it out of turm. Some how I get the fealing he got a PM from the powers that be. But I'm not going to give up. I'm fed up with Daz's smoke and mirrors, I'm sick of vague answers, so I intend to stay at this; on the Daz forum, till I get some concrete answers. I really can't say too much bad about Daz. Yes they are very market orinented, but that is to be expected. And they do give some real good insentives and deals to keep customers active. But I am not a mushroom __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

14th October 2006, 19:13	#14 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,643	Dito.. I haven't seen any critical bugs in Carrara5 ...since a long time in fact . The only bad thing I got could be the "auto-update" preview with displacement and SSS, but since I have disabled this default setting..All is ok..I know some people who had memory bugs during the render, this I have not, even with gigs of bitmaps .. Ok, now I was talking about stills. __________________ - Sheik Yerbouti - Let love the Noise technimesh.com

12th October 2006, 18:01	#3 (permalink)
Azeiku NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 104	I'm thinking Modo looks great! But then again.. if they do another 1.99 release of Hex3 I might have to give them my money again. Other than that. If it's well over $199. I'm going to Luxology for sure. I too am sick of them jerking around and most of their users seem to need clothing for their V3 models. That's crap. Azeiku

12th October 2006, 18:11	#4 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	Stanley, how'd you get so jaded ?... Seriously, the lost sales of a few hundred (maybe several thousand) non-content users is a minor threat when compared to the potential upgrade sales towards content users. The only people who can hurt DAZ is DAZ... Anyway, buying software is no different than buying a car. You may have the full warranty, but you're still ass-out if that company goes out of business or decides not to produce replacement parts!!!

12th October 2006, 19:03	#5 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Why anyone would expect "bug" fixes in C5 at this stage of the game is beyond me, I've never read anywhere that C5 was going to get any more patches and even Charles asked a few times "last call for any bugs" about 6 months ago. It's overall less buggy than previous versions of Carrara and if C6is on schedule, that could be released anywhere from Dec 06 to April 07. I did see H2 in the last chat getting a pardon and Bob said the next patch would be free. (Maybe that's why he doesn't work there anymore) :\| Anyway, to me it is of little consequence, I still have plenty to do and in the long run I'll continue to use forward looking software like Hexagon to model with. I havn't had any errors, crashes or bugs in months and months and I think it's because I've learned all the nuances it has and know how to keep them from springing up. It's all about methodology and common sense modeling. I'd rather model in a program that takes risks, has more features and does things other programs cannot do than model in something far less capable and works perfectly every single time and is more forgiving to the novice user.

12th October 2006, 19:50	#6 (permalink)
Sketchy Box modeling Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 317	Like I've stated in some forgettable thread, I'm not a fan of zbrush-like modeling. I upgraded to Hex2, but those features didn't work well on my machine. I'm still using 1.21 for serious subd modeling work. I really don't care much about H2 bug fixes. Though I'd be glad to have them for free. I'm only doing still images, anyway. C5 and Hex1.21 are enough at the moment. I don't expect C6 to be released anytime soon, but I expect it to be big when it's released. I may no longer need Hexagon, Blender or any of the other tools littering my pc for that matter. I'd be happy when that happens. And that's the end of it. No need to consider buying any app.

13th October 2006, 20:16	#7 (permalink)
steama Boulet Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 452	What really matters is that one is satisfied with DAZ or not. If not satisfied there are many great alternatives out there for you. No need to boycott DAZ. Their customers that like them will stick around and those that are feed up will leave. Simple. The main thing is to enjoy what you are doing and remember that things will always change no matter what direction you take. Be ready to adjust and support your efforts. Happy 3ding, Stan

13th October 2006, 22:21	#9 (permalink)
steama Boulet Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 452	That is great if there is going to be an update 'before' a Hexagon 3 release. I hope so. That would be nice. That said I think Hexagon is an amazing tool. I will upgrade to Hexagon 3 whether DAZ updates 2 or not provided it functions as promoted by then. I will wait until everyone else plays around with Hex 3 and see if it all works first. Stan

13th October 2006, 23:01	#10 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,365	stu, i think Ringo said they had "no plans to not release" an update before H3 . that's not exactly a guarantee of a 2.2 update. We all know that a company's best intentions may be influenced by their bottom line. steama, everybody says that now. but what's everybody gonna do when DAZ starts offering sweet discounts on pre-orders of H3? I bet there's still a LOT of people who will jump on it, even though we all witnessed how risky it is to purchase anything before public release...

17th October 2006, 11:42	#15 (permalink)
E-Z Edge modeling Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 379	will Hexagon 3 be just a patch or a upgrade? they need to stay away from AO because its really not that important when dealing with just a polymodler tool. i dont know what more they can add for polymodling because they have alot all ready the only thing i see is maybe some new shaders and stuuf

17th October 2006, 14:22	#16 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Nichod, RingoM; the Daz leason for Carrara and Hex said there would be no updates for Carrara5. He then deffended Daz by saying Eovia never did any updates after .1, with that logic there would be no updates to Hex2 ether. As I said he later retracted the statement. The bug with C5 is well known by thoughs that build poser sceans in C5. You can't morph a figure then use an imported pose, it 0's all morphs. No one has official said there would be updates. The possabilety has been vaguely alluded to, but not anything concrete. I just seems that if there was going to be updates it wouldn't be so difficult to get a conformation from Daz. __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

17th October 2006, 21:40	#18 (permalink)
Pete Exxtreme Lick it up Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Thonon/France Posts: 4,635	..to complete what Steama said, C4D has has also a third party plug-in for Poser ....(http://www.e-frontier.com/go/bodystudioc4d) (not for free as usual) __________________ Toute faute de frappe ou erreur de syntaxe sont dues a un clavier rebelle à toute forme d'autorité. LightWave 9 \| Hexagon 2 My gallery

18th October 2006, 01:50	#19 (permalink)
manleystanley Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	What I have is what I have. I can't ford to jump ship. I have Poser 5, and C5 will load P6 stuff. But I have a fealing e-F and Daz are about to have a rude awakening. Is anyone keeping up with Make human? As far as C5 using P7 stuff, I have a huge library of P4-P6 stuff. More then I'll ever use. So I'm not too worried. And I only need the Poser figures/clothes. I make most everything else myself; including new skins for the figures, well C5 shaders stacked with G2.5 textures. __________________ What forest? All I see are trees.

18th October 2006, 12:47	#20 (permalink)
E-Z Edge modeling Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 379	Daz better have a Demo of Hexagon 3 because by seeing people complaining previously about bugs i dought they would buy it unless they tryed it first. Eovia knew about the bugs thats why they sold it.

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