For Sale: Carrara 4 Professional + Free Carrara 3, Vector Design! $380

[echostorm]

After originally posting a listing very much like this one, I was attacked by Eovia's 'representatives' accusing me of illegal actions! Well, after dishing out my dough for their products all of a sudden I'm getting treated like dirt because I want to resell it? This is my pending experience of Eovia's strong arm tactics.

Why should you care? Because according to Eovia you could be breaking the law listing your Eovia software on eBay, or selling or purchasing an 'academic edition' illegally thinking that it's the commercial version (since there appears to be no difference in licensing between the two).

My original post was as follows:

For Sale: Carrara 4 Professional + Free Carrara 3, Vector Design! $380

Carrara 4 Professional Like New, In Box with Original CD's (2), Serial Number, and Manual. Being a Carrara User site, I won't go into the details of what Carrara 4 Pro is - you can check out the differences at http://www.eovia.com/products/carrara/carrara.asp - Includes Amapi Designer.

Received this as a free upgrade from Eovia when I made an academic purchase for Carrara 3 when Carrara 4 first came out. I have since decided to move to Maya Unlimited and do not use Carrara anymore. This was supposed to be an "upgrade" version, but they sent me a FULL VERSION that installs by itself. Also, they have no academic EULA, nor did I sign anything about academic restrictions for the free upgrade.

"This License grants to the Recipient the right to use images and models created through using the Software for either commercial or non-commercial purposes."

Anyways, according to Eovia I can't resell my Carrara 3 Academic Edition (though nowhere in its EULA does it say so, but heck who's going to buy Carrara 3 anyways?) - So I'll give the Carrara 4 Pro Purchaser the Carrara 3 'Academic Edition' for free (Yes manuals, 2 CD's in box like new and all) - the reason being that I have the Carrara 3 Vector Designer Plug-In that I will also give you that requires you to install Carrara 3 to install the plugin, though after it is installed you and remove Carrara 3 and update the plugin to work with Carrara 4 Pro.

Anyways, Just looking to cash out of Carrara and reimburse me for my hit on Maya. Contact me (private message) if you are interested and we can work out purchasing details (Paypal, or if you feel nervous I have 207+ feedback at eBay and can list an auction for you, though I will have to factor in surcharges for that.)

Thanks for looking!

Dan

[Thomas]

Something seems strange. Their is no upgrade possible for academic licenses. You have to always buy a new full version.
And even if you buy an academic licence, you can't sell it, it's strictly forbidden...

[echostorm]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Something seems strange. Their is no upgrade possible for academic licenses. You have to always buy a new full version.
And even if you buy an academic licence, you can't sell it, it's strictly forbidden...

And yes, Eovia needs to revamp the EULA !

Well that's the thing... last year when Carrara 4 Pro came out, I called Eovia regarding the upgrade to Carrara 4 Pro, and they said that they would honor any Carrara 3 purchase (including academic) for Carrara 4 Pro free (plus shipping), which they obviously did. And this year for the Carrara 5 free amnesty period they claim to restrict free academic upgrades.

Again, Eovia claims that they have an "academic license," but such a license (unlike different educational licenses for e-on software Vue 5 Infinite, Alias Maya, Autodesk 3DS Max, Newtek Lightwave) is non-existent. According to Eovia, there is no way to indicate the difference between a commercial product and an academic product. As such the license that you agree to despite you 'academic purchase' is the commercial license.

Further in order to complicate things more - the Carrara 4 Pro that I am selling here, I am assuming is a commercial product since it was given to me on my purchase free from Eovia, without any licensing or academic restrictions in contract or agreement, or in EULA.

Bottom line? Until Eovia contacts me back with something substantial in the EULA that tells me I can't do this, otherwise I will proceed to sell this as a commercial item - as there is nothing legally wrong with doing so according to all agreements and licenses by Eovia. My loss is your gain as you can save a couple hundred of dollars.

[echostorm]

You know what? Forget selling this for now - if you are interested in the software pm me still and I will keep you in line once Eovia's threats blow over or when I learn that I am wrong in my assumptions that I have a legal right to resell these items.

I feel that there is an issue at hand here to all Eovia end-users whether academic or commercial - especially if you will ever consider reselling your Eovia product. I will take a stand to do that which is legal and that which is in my purchaser and end user rights to do. I do not like Eovia's rash and presumptuous strong arm tactics and wish to illustrate how Eovia is treating me, a hitherto fan and customer, as an enemy and lawbreaker.

For sake preventing petty email copyright litigation:

A certain Mr. Stockwell; Eovia Director of Sales and Marketing emails me:

1. Threating that I cannot transfer an academic license

I reply:

Mr. Stockwell,

I will be more than happy to comply to any legal restrictions on the transfer or resale of an item, however under Eovia's own EULA in the products that I acquired and/or purchased there are no clauses identifying that the product is an academic version, nor any clauses to indicate that the license is restricted from resale, transfer, or commercial purposes. In fact, when purchasing this item I signed not written agreement on academic restrictions. When I received the free Carrara 4 Pro upgrade, again there were absolutely no contractual or legal agreements restricting resale on the item, nor does the Carrara 4 Pro EULA prohibit the item for commercial use, resale, or transfer. Please do correct me if I am wrong by pointing out in writing somewhere in the EULA where it prohibits me from reselling or transferring and I will immediately comply. Otherwise, I cannot see how Eovia expects me to honor an agreement that I did not enter into, nor is contractual anywhere in writing.

Replies and: 2. States that I entered an academic agreement when I purchased Carrara 3 from an academic reseller.

FYI I purchased Carrara 3 from Studica.com - I went ahead and 'repurchased' Carrara today walking through the process and in no place do I ever enter a purchasing agreement with Studica or Eovia, so I proceed to reply to Eovia:

Mr. Stockwell,

Thank you for your reply. I have not yet sold my Eovia software so before you start threatening me and accusing me of breaking the law, I would gladly have Eovia's legal team provide me in writing:

1. The full terms of agreement that you refer to that I agreed upon with my academic reseller. To assist, you may contact Studica.com, the point of purchase for Carrara 3, for this said agreement.

2. The terms that specify that the free upgrade from Carrara 3 to Carrara 4 Pro I received which bear all product markings, EULA licencing, and functionality of a full commercial product are limited to academic usage as per part 1. (Note: A comment on Eovia.com for the current prohibition of free upgrades of Carrara 4 academic to Carrara 5 will not suffice)

3. The EULA for the commercial vs. academic editions of Carrara 3, and Carrara 4 Pro.

Again, if Eovia and its legal team can provide the written burden of proof stating that I indeed have:

1. The inability to resell or transfer Carrara 3 academic edition
2. That my copy of Carrara 4 Pro is not an commercial edition
3. That I cannot resell of transfer Carrara 4 Pro

I will cease and desist immediately and will not resell my Eovia products. If they cannot do so in a reasonable amount of time, as an end-user under the EULA of the products which I own, I will proceed to resell my products accordingly as in doing so I will not violate any EULA's as they stand.

Status: I am currently pending correspondence from Eovia and will update accordingly.

[bwtr]

Seems to be that you do not do or make anything for which your ownership (copyrite) might apply. If you were an artist or musician etc. you would appreciate just how important intelectual rites are.

[echostorm]

Originally Posted by bwtr

Seems to be that you do not do or make anything for which your ownership (copyrite) might apply. If you were an artist or musician etc. you would appreciate just how important intelectual rites are.

Actually I study US intellectual property law, I respect it and appreciate it, but in this case I put in my fair share of money into these products already, and as far as economics are concerned I am an advocate of free trade - if I purchase a house, I expect that I can sell it again unless for some strange reason I am told explicitly that I cannot at least at the time of purchase (which would make me reconsider) - what peevs me most is that someone is trying to tell me that I cannot sell it after the fact, without telling me why and how I should know not to.

[laughingnome]

"Actually I study US intellectual property law, I respect it and appreciate it, but in this case I put in my fair share of money into these products already, and as far as economics are concerned I am an advocate of free trade"

thats good then you will know you only purchased a lincense not the actual software itself.
you bought an Academic licsense.
THESE are not resaleble in any country.

im real sorry you cant sell this on ebay or wherever.

personally i think you are someone with too much time on their hands and a grudge against Evoia.
time will tell on that though.

nice models btw

stu

[echostorm]

Originally Posted by laughingnome

"Actually I study US intellectual property law, I respect it and appreciate it, but in this case I put in my fair share of money into these products already, and as far as economics are concerned I am an advocate of free trade"

thats good then you will know you only purchased a lincense not the actual software itself.
you bought an Academic licsense.
THESE are not resaleble in any country.

im real sorry you cant sell this on ebay or wherever.

personally i think you are someone with too much time on their hands and a grudge against Evoia.
time will tell on that though.

nice models btw

stu

Correct I purchased the right to use the software under the EULA - incorrect, many lisences can be transferred in the resale of software but not shared - otherwise you would not have resellers of any type of software - I have purchased the lisences granted in the software - in this case both EULA's for the software are commercial. My whole argument here is that Eovia does not have a separate, distinct academic licensing agreement - hence I do not believe they will be able to provide me item #3. As far as the grudge goes, that's new, and grudges seem to exist in their own time-space

[laughingnome]

dude youve got way too much time and so littlle to do .
show me some models guy or am i asking too much??
so far havnt seen a thing from you model wise.

your whole argument is you just want an argument it seems to me.
as far as the grudge thing thats pretty much how i read your message , nothing personal against you.


stu

[Thomas]

I closed this thread since it's a problem between Eovia and Echostorm.