5 axis milling - Polyloop

Couerl · 3rd November 2007, 05:13

This is interesting, a 5 axiz milling machine doing an aluminum torso.. Have any of you done anything like this and can you tell us about it? I know there are some 3D printers and such done in light materials, but going directly into metal just seems pretty impressive to me. Would be neat I think to do one of these and I wonder how much it would cost? I'm guessing quite a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVJFQUL-o0s&NR=1

Oh, I liked it up until the necklace and thought that kind of blew the whole thing.

bwtr · 3rd November 2007, 06:30

That is pretty old hat CAD programmes stuff used for Lathes, Milling Machines, and water or lazer cutting. One of the reasons that Nerbs programmes are more important than Vertex in preparing files for these machines.

(Or have I missed something you are saying? Almost every backyard toolmaking workshop seems to be able to do this around my area.)

jbshorty · 3rd November 2007, 14:38

This is something of interest to me lately, as i'm planning to buy a small 4-axis mill very soon to make my own prototypes in aluminum. When visiting a prototyping lab overseas, I've also seen a 3D printer which builds the model directly in metal. But it's so expensive to use that it's mostly for emergency tool and die work, not for prototyping. It seems we are getting ever closer to the replicator from Star Trek. "Computer, I'll have a bourbon and a martini for my lady friend"... I agree with you it was really beautiful until they drilled the pearl settings. That was cheesy as hell...

Brian, are you sure that every backyard milling company has a 5-axis mill? It's pretty expensive stuff. And you can use polygonal and subd models to send for milling. The problem with using those modelers for industry is the surface quality is not perfect enough and will show some distortions. Working in Nurbs you can produce surface quality of a much higher order...

Couerl · 3rd November 2007, 15:18

Interesting Shorty, creating organic models such as the torso here in nurbs however is not as easy as it is in polygonal. Will a 4 axis machine do the same kind of contouring or will it be restricted more or how does that work? If you do get one I'd be interested in having something done if you're up to it. I'm just not sure what it costs to do something, even a figure done in a 10lb block of aluminum I imagine would be spendy.

juanmanuel · 3rd November 2007, 15:22

I've seen in trade fairs where they showcased how some historic buildings have been 3d scanning their frieze sculptures (among other things), then been replicated in the original material (marble, travertine, granite, sandstone, etc) with a CAM machine. Then they moved the originals indoors and put the replicas in their place. As far as I could see, the last step was done by hand (the ultrafine detailing and the polishing of the stone).
It still is an impressive thing to watch, though.
The machines were a bit expensive, going around USD$150,000 and up.

medeamajic · 3rd November 2007, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

Interesting Shorty, creating organic models such as the torso here in nurbs however is not as easy as it is in polygonal. Will a 4 axis machine do the same kind of contouring or will it be restricted more or how does that work? If you do get one I'd be interested in having something done if you're up to it. I'm just not sure what it costs to do something, even a figure done in a 10lb block of aluminum I imagine would be spendy.

That was a lot of metal to cut out with out any coolant. I did not like this CNC mill. It seems like the base that holds the tool rotates as opposed to the fixture (the platform the sculpture was on). I did not watch the whole thing so I may have missed something. A lot of the $1,400.00 mills are decent for protypes but the track feed is usually very small. This mill looked like it only had one tool although it might have a magazine storage that was not seen. We had people do some fancy things at our machine shop.

jbshorty · 3rd November 2007, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

Interesting Shorty, creating organic models such as the torso here in nurbs however is not as easy as it is in polygonal. Will a 4 axis machine do the same kind of contouring or will it be restricted more or how does that work? If you do get one I'd be interested in having something done if you're up to it. I'm just not sure what it costs to do something, even a figure done in a 10lb block of aluminum I imagine would be spendy.

Yup, there's nothing wrong with using a subd model for milling. But now i would first import to Rhino and convert to t-Splines, correct some areas with imperfect curvature, and then mesh the object to export to CAM... The machines i am considering can do pieces of around 12" x 12" x 6" for 3 axis work. On 4-axis they can do considerably smaller objects, maybe the diameter of a softball. And you can mill organic models on 4-axes. The problem is that it can't mill from all angles so it can't access those areas with undercutting very well. You would have to consider that while modeling. And of course you will be left with a stump on each end which the machine needs to hold the part. But that's true of any milled part... When (if?) i get a machine i'll let you know. First i need a space to operate it. The funny thing about milling aluminum in a NYC apartment is that your neighbors tend to complain about it... What? Stop milling at 3AM? How rude of you to interupt my work!!!

Juan, that's pretty funny. I wonder how many other "historic" items are really fakes?

shorty

medeamajic · 3rd November 2007, 16:34

I think I would opt to mill stiff styro foam or even plastic vs metal. Should you want to carve out complex shapes like a hand or even eyes you are bound to break a tool or two using metal as opposed to plastic. As far as undercutting is conserned that is the reason that some machine shops will require 4 and 5 mill ops to complete a part. Also depending on the part it may require 20 or even 30 different tools.

fabster · 3rd November 2007, 20:49

Well very interesting video! Someone mentionned that it was a lot of metal removed without using any coolant... Well it looks like it's one of the great things with HSM... (high speed machining). As long as the depth of cut is not too high, you don't have to bother with coolant (even though it can be usefull to clean off the chips) we don't get to see that kind of machining except for prototype machining or mould manufacturing...

bwtr · 4th November 2007, 03:03

http://www.headland.com.au/products/...res/index.html

A lot of interesting stuff here, including the Toshiba MPF 5V. Look at the various Cad programmes here also.
More on the Laser and Water (jet) cutting --used by artists and design engineers for prototypes etc at other places.

jbshorty · 4th November 2007, 04:10

oooh baby... that video is HOT!!!

bwtr · 4th November 2007, 06:29

One of my sons is a design engineer. He take his CAD drawing down to local workshops and they, while he waits!, cut out a 3D sample in plastic which he can show his customers. Brilliant stuff!

3rd November 2007, 05:13	#1 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,295	5 axis milling This is interesting, a 5 axiz milling machine doing an aluminum torso.. Have any of you done anything like this and can you tell us about it? I know there are some 3D printers and such done in light materials, but going directly into metal just seems pretty impressive to me. Would be neat I think to do one of these and I wonder how much it would cost? I'm guessing quite a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVJFQUL-o0s&NR=1 Oh, I liked it up until the necklace and thought that kind of blew the whole thing.

3rd November 2007, 15:22	#5 (permalink)
juanmanuel Madly in love Join Date: May 2006 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 241	I've seen in trade fairs where they showcased how some historic buildings have been 3d scanning their frieze sculptures (among other things), then been replicated in the original material (marble, travertine, granite, sandstone, etc) with a CAM machine. Then they moved the originals indoors and put the replicas in their place. As far as I could see, the last step was done by hand (the ultrafine detailing and the polishing of the stone). It still is an impressive thing to watch, though. The machines were a bit expensive, going around USD$150,000 and up. __________________ passionately alive This is my blog This is my portfolio

3rd November 2007, 20:49	#9 (permalink)
fabster Box modeling Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: tros près de Paris Posts: 232	Well very interesting video! Someone mentionned that it was a lot of metal removed without using any coolant... Well it looks like it's one of the great things with HSM... (high speed machining). As long as the depth of cut is not too high, you don't have to bother with coolant (even though it can be usefull to clean off the chips) we don't get to see that kind of machining except for prototype machining or mould manufacturing... __________________ Fabien -------------- Mac Pro 8 x 3GHz '08 / 10Go Ram Hexagon, Amapi Pro 7.5, Carrara 6 Pro, Vue5 Inf, Zbrush pour noël, Pixelmator. Si je continue la liste on est encore là demain D'ailleur je suis vachement étonné que vous ayez lu jusque là Vous connaissez l'histoire du mec sur le pont de l'Alma? Vous ne devriez pas être en train de lire le post suivant?

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3rd November 2007, 06:30	#2 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,089	That is pretty old hat CAD programmes stuff used for Lathes, Milling Machines, and water or lazer cutting. One of the reasons that Nerbs programmes are more important than Vertex in preparing files for these machines. (Or have I missed something you are saying? Almost every backyard toolmaking workshop seems to be able to do this around my area.)

3rd November 2007, 14:38	#3 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,337	This is something of interest to me lately, as i'm planning to buy a small 4-axis mill very soon to make my own prototypes in aluminum. When visiting a prototyping lab overseas, I've also seen a 3D printer which builds the model directly in metal. But it's so expensive to use that it's mostly for emergency tool and die work, not for prototyping. It seems we are getting ever closer to the replicator from Star Trek. "Computer, I'll have a bourbon and a martini for my lady friend"... I agree with you it was really beautiful until they drilled the pearl settings. That was cheesy as hell... Brian, are you sure that every backyard milling company has a 5-axis mill? It's pretty expensive stuff. And you can use polygonal and subd models to send for milling. The problem with using those modelers for industry is the surface quality is not perfect enough and will show some distortions. Working in Nurbs you can produce surface quality of a much higher order...

3rd November 2007, 15:18	#4 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,295	Interesting Shorty, creating organic models such as the torso here in nurbs however is not as easy as it is in polygonal. Will a 4 axis machine do the same kind of contouring or will it be restricted more or how does that work? If you do get one I'd be interested in having something done if you're up to it. I'm just not sure what it costs to do something, even a figure done in a 10lb block of aluminum I imagine would be spendy.

3rd November 2007, 16:34	#8 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,026	I think I would opt to mill stiff styro foam or even plastic vs metal. Should you want to carve out complex shapes like a hand or even eyes you are bound to break a tool or two using metal as opposed to plastic. As far as undercutting is conserned that is the reason that some machine shops will require 4 and 5 mill ops to complete a part. Also depending on the part it may require 20 or even 30 different tools.

4th November 2007, 04:10	#11 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,337	oooh baby... that video is HOT!!!

4th November 2007, 06:29	#12 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,089	One of my sons is a design engineer. He take his CAD drawing down to local workshops and they, while he waits!, cut out a 3D sample in plastic which he can show his customers. Brilliant stuff!