the times they are changing

[Davidoff]

Originally Posted by solt

obviously, you don't read my word from the begening.

Effectivement, une image réalisée avec talent n'a pas besoin d'une notice explicative. ce n'est manifestement pas le cas ici.

[Hugo]

ok, please stop this kind discussion/words, Geo Politics, Religion this are the best subjects to start new fights.
Thanks

[Wася]

Originally Posted by solt

thanks for your compliments

And this illustrate your sence of humor. But Davidoff told about it already.

[bwtr]

It would be a better world if there were no religions and their conflicting beliefs and attitudes, based on the same books, were put into the fairytale category where they belong!

Politics and Religions have no place in international web sites

[bwtr]

http://www.venganza.org/

I am PROUD to be a Pastararian!

We need to have FUN in life!

[Wася]

"Politics and Religions have no place in international web sites"
I suggest to add this to Polyloop rules list.

Thomas, it's your call.

[jbshorty]

Originally Posted by Wася

"Politics and Religions have no place in international web sites"
I suggest to add this to Polyloop rules list.

I think this whole thread has gone way out of control. everybody here needs to think for one minute about a few points:

1. Do you really think Solt created this with an ill-intention towards anybody? I don't. Check the history of his postings, he seems to be a nice person who cares about issues which are affecting people as a whole. I see NOTHING offensive in this work. Unless your name is George W. Bush.

2. Anybody who would refer to another member's work or opinion as "immature" "stupid" or similar should learn to have tolerance for another person's view which you disagree with.

3. Religion and Politics have no place in an "art" community forum? Are you people freaking serious?!

4. It's been mentioned that this forum is about the "creation" process. Obviously you guys feel very strongly about this. Please go back and review all the threads which have absolutely NOTHING to do with 2D/3D techniques, software, hardware, or the creation process. These do not qualify under your definition of a suitable Polyloop discussion topic. Please remove them immediately. I find them offensive

While we're on the issue of subject matter- the gallery banner is displaying one work of blood flying through the air, another has a decapitated head on a stick. Better get rid of those too ...

shorty

[bwtr]

Shorty. Re point 3. I can look at the strident newspaper cartoon of the day depicting an (hilarious) opposite vue of my beliefs. Or a painted art work, depicting a belief contrary to my views maybe, and enjoy it.

It's not that the imagery was commited to a "vue"--what imagery is not?--what I object to is that people can not appreciate the value of that artistry based on the concepts from which it was inspired.

Its like saying an art work can not be good if it is not beautifull!

What IS beauty/beautiful???

Does that idea/premise create interest to all?

[Piem]

Announcement
I have moved this topic to misc/ discussion/what you want for some visible reasons for now.

[Wася]

Originally Posted by jbshorty

1. Do you really think Solt created this with an ill-intention towards anybody? ...

I don't know, can not read his mind, specially by internet. I just can talk about the result of his good intention.

Originally Posted by jbshorty

2. Anybody who would refer to another member's work or opinion as "immature" "stupid" or similar should learn to have tolerance for another person's view which you disagree with.

"Stupid"? You said that, not me. Why this word occured?
And if I would draw some of my opponents looking like pigs, will you take it as a proof of my tolerance and maturity? Or only if my opponent will be George Bush? Who else?

[bwtr]

Look, all you blokes know you are wrong.

If it's not your wife it's your children telling you so.

[Davidoff]

Don't forget: to criticize democracies (US - UK or France) is very easy and whitout danger. If you criticize some religion aspect you risc your life.

[Couerl]

Solt, you forgot the wings and the halo over the pigs head.

History will paint it's own picture and I doubt it will be like yours, but this is my opinion and I think balance always returns to us all in the end.

Politics are a very important part of art and all of our views have purpose and meaning and argument/debate is good for people and helps us find middle ground through different ideas and reason.

I like the detail of the face, it looks like you spent most of your time there and did a great job.
There's a lot of bad things going on in the world today and a lot of change as the Earth becomes a smaller place to live, resources diminish, communications increase (web) and more people coming together every day from different countries. Iraq is just one place where children die. Tibet, Nepal, Darfur (a very bad place), Indonesia, the list goes on... Despite all of this, the world itself is becoming stronger and closer as tyranny's, one by one fall and communism is replaced by opportunity and freedom.
Maybe you think it is a bad thing for the US to be in Iraq and you may or may not be right. We thought it was a bad thing to be in Vietnam too, but suddenly, all these years after the French left Vietnam and then the US, Vietnamese people are embracing a new form of economic growth, capitalism and they are abandoning their communist past. China is doing much the same and right now in fact, Vietnams economic growth is 6.8% GDP yearly, a number only seen in the free world. Maybe we were wrong to go there, (I don't think so myself) but we left a footprint that could not be erased, both French and American people live free and the rest of the world (the world that does not) sees this and wants this and should have it too. Russia is setting its own example that free enterprise works and opportunity gives people more hope than working for a state. Some day places like Cuba, Iran, Syria and North Korea will follow suit and it is our responsibilty as free men to help them. Whether you like or dislike George Bush makes no difference really, since he cannot remain longer than 8 years as a president... The Iraqi people had no such luxury as this and now perhaps they will. I think even if we left tomorrow and allowed the country to fall into a civil war that the footprint has already been made. A free world to me is worth the fight, even if some innocents die on the way. The conflict in Iraq is no more about Oil or economic profit than the Invason of Normandy was about wine and cheese, it's just not that simple and in fact the price of gas here just keeps going up.

[jbshorty]

@ Brian - Like Solt mentioned already, sometimes a serious topic can not be viewed with humor. If you make joke about the tragic circumstance of another, that is truly mean. But if you make political jokes (as most newspaper comics often do) that should be OK because it is only a criticism of that politician's action. Which of course is OK (and required!) that we criticize... Certainly it's not required for art to be "beautiful". I much prefer a horrific art which makes me think, than something pretty which makes me think of nothing...

@ Wacr - I didn't say it. But if you read through the whole thread, you will find it... Who do you consider to be your opponent? Public officials understand they will suffer these criticisms on a daily basis. So there really is no taboo. It's just part of their job. A symbol of their elitist inner circle...

@ Couerl - It is funny how the price of gas keeps going up, yet the oil companies are enjoying record profits. And friends of GWB run those companies. I suggest the big oil companies should finance this war. It's good thing in one respect though. Because rising gas prices are forcing people to demand alternative fuel sources. So i don't mind to see those prices go a bit higher. I just hope the obscenely large profits are invested into more research for "green" fuels...

shorty

[thierry]

First : A political idea can be translated as a picture. Only technical problem
Two : An Artist is a political body so his art shows what he is. But if he does politics or religion with his arts that's, in reality, a mission fact. Not art in final.
three : the job of an artist is not religion, politics but research similar as an scientist.

So on polyloop, I believe there are not great artists but we are agree with this third point... only. We try, all the members, to search something. With the religion or the political opinions we have find normaly something because we are adults now.

Caricature is not art because is just for un moment, the actuality. That's not a third point. Caricature is also a hard critic about others guys. So It's not a Polyloop approval... really. Polyloop is a big chance for us because, these is a place in peace, with a great liberty and every boody can talk... BUT we must be adult to preserve our "land". So i'm not agree with political or religion caricatures on polyloop. It's not a censure because everywhere we can see them.
So peace and 3D please :-)

[Wася]

bwtr, you right, but I really don't care about George Bush. I don't even care about toilet humor, 'cause I'm not too sensible kind.

Solt drew a pig. But! The picture actually symbolize that solt hates war and loves people in America, Chechnya, Burundi and Madagascar, loves Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Jegovah and John Lennon. Trees and dophlins. And it is not a picture (list price $0.20) anymore. With all this trivial trend of developments it become THE act of creation!! Love and peace fighting!!!

Oh, please, lads. I will not bite at this bait. I'm living in a country which is B.S. exporter, not importer.

What I really care is a complete absence of imagination. That's deadly sin for an artist.

[Pete Exxtreme]

Way of life, Religions, Politics are not taboo subjects on polyloop. But the moderators try to avoid that a pleasant discussion becames a fight without end... . Polyloop is not keen with such a mindset. After a general agreement with the admins/modos, this thread is closed.

[laughingnome]

Originally Posted by Pete Exxtreme

Way of live, Religions, Politics are not taboo subjects on polyloop. But the moderators try to avoid that a pleasant discussion becames a fight without end... . Polyloop is not keen with such a mindset. After a general agreement with the admins/modos, this thread is closed.

agreed, these threads are pointless as no one ever changes their viewpoint, which they are intitaled to and are their own.

stu