What to do with all this software?

[Naes3d]

So I am an owner of the following software

Carrara 5 Pro - Currently my favorite rendering software. Missing only a few things that would make it my overall go to software.

trueSpace 7.11 - I was going to stay away from this, but 7.5 seemed like it would be a nice release. My initial opinion of it was accurate though. All the useful stuff will be in the 7.5 version. Currently my favorite modeller.

Hexagon 2 - Try as I might, I can't get used to modelling with this software. As nice as it is, I feel 'off' when using it.

Other software - Most of it repeats what the others do.

I am currently in a creative rut. Is anybody else out there using these softwares together? What are you doing with it?

[manleystanley]

I'm using Genetica 2.5 pro, Hex 2, Carrara 5 pro, Poser 5, Photofilter, Terragen, and World Machine. Sometimes all on the same project.
I do 90% of my modeling and mesh moding with Hex 2, set up and render sceans in C5 pro, make HDRI backgrounds with TG, make all my textures with G2.5, use Poser to apply morph targets; made in H2, WM for the terrains; of coarse, and do all texture/render editing with PF. I'm real happy that I finally have some decent programs that work fairly well together.

[Sketchy]

Originally Posted by Naes3d

So I am an owner of the following software

Carrara 5 Pro - Currently my favorite rendering software. Missing only a few things that would make it my overall go to software.

trueSpace 7.11 - I was going to stay away from this, but 7.5 seemed like it would be a nice release. My initial opinion of it was accurate though. All the useful stuff will be in the 7.5 version. Currently my favorite modeller.

Well, if I didn't see anything big when C6 comes out, I might as well go back to trueSpace. I used to rant and rave at Caligari's old forums. I was using a different nickname, of course. That's after I bought tS 6.6. I complained about how its modeler sucked, strange handling of xyz constraints, inconsistent undo feature, virtually useless nurbs, etc. And how it would be great to copy Hexagon's universal manipulator and SketchUp's 'push and pull' as well as inference engine. That was the time when version 7 was about to be released and Caligari's CEO, Roman, had different priorities. Well, it seems that he is now doing something about it.

http://www.caligari.com/news/news_se...5_PE200609.wmv

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespac...7169#post17169

It's not bad to see improvements in other apps. It just means that Carrara developers might get good inspiration and do something similar if not better. It also tend to drive the prices down.

Hexagon 2 - Try as I might, I can't get used to modelling with this software. As nice as it is, I feel 'off' when using it.

Other software - Most of it repeats what the others do.

I am currently in a creative rut. Is anybody else out there using these softwares together? What are you doing with it?

[Naes3d]

Yes, trueSpace has been a source of frustration for me too. I actually had an email exchange with Roman Ormandy in which he basically scolded me for not seeing his vision. I basically scolded him back for not implementing requests before pushing towards a new vision.

I bought tS7, but haven't got any more use out of it than what I would have got with tS6.6. 7.5 looks good so I am expecting that to change. Should I feel comfortable with 7.5, I will go ahead and pop for the VRay plugin.

I took a look at Genetica 2.5 after seeing ManleyStanley's post, and I think I will be adding that to my toolset. It looks really good.

[Sketchy]

Naes3d, I have a question for you. I'm trying to revive my interest in trueSpace and I reinstalled my 6.6, which I bought about 2 years ago. I briefly played with some features trying to recall where I left off. I could see that there are modeling gems in there that can't be found in other apps. The first times I used it it was at a time when I knew little about things like polygon/subd modeling. I figured my rants at the time may have been unjustified.

My question is, is there a tweak mode in tS6.6? Like dragging vertices around in point, or edge/face mode. Do you have to select a vert first, then drag? It seems that after dragging a vert, you can't just drag another without first selecting it. The previous selected vert moves instead. This requires 2 clicks for every vert.

I would agree that tS7.5 may be a darn good upgrade.

[Naes3d]

You get the tweak mode like features when you are woking in Player in tS7.11, they don't exist when working on Model side, so that means it is not available in 6.6.

I never had a problem with tS as a modeler, it was always issues with stability or broken features. I couldn't get a bone to work to save my life in tS. And point editing could be very tedious. Zooming too cose to your mesh would detach the skin from its cage which was really frustrating. And the crashing...ugh. Of course while it was working, I loved it.

If you haven't already, you may want to head over to Primitive Itch where you can download PrimalParticles, PPFX, ShaderLabPro and Motion Studio free.

If you were going to give trueSpace a second chance, 7.5 would be the time. If the stuff they are putting in there actually works, it will definitely save the program and may even warrant some accolade.

Of course, if you have ever said anything critical about Roman's vision you will likely not be accepted at the Caligari forums, so be careful.

To whit, I made the comment that upgrading from truespace 5 to tS 7.5 + VRay (not counting sales promotions) would be closer to $1000 than not. I based it on the fact that in order to get rendering features that match what is available in Carrara (you don't get SSS without it) I would have to purchase VRay.

tS $549
VRay $299
.5 $50
____________
$898

To me $898 is closer to $1000 than not. And even if you don't get VRay, the upgrade to tS7 is only about a $50 difference from just buying a new license. So my advice to you is, if you do plan on getting 7.5, get in on a deal. My deal came with a free .5 upgrade when it was released.

[Sketchy]

Originally Posted by Naes3d

You get the tweak mode like features when you are woking in Player in tS7.11, they don't exist when working on Model side, so that means it is not available in 6.6.

That alone would suspend my interest and wait till tS7.5 comes out.

I never had a problem with tS as a modeler, it was always issues with stability or broken features.

"*Broken* features." That made me recall why I stopped pursuing it. See, tS6.6 has lots of interesting features. Features, in fact, that are uniquely impressive. The problem is, they don't seem to have any consistency, or not well integrated into the main workflow as a whole. It's as if they've been just thrown in there either to impress or they just seemed useful. For example, you can draw lines on a face or polygon's surface. I don't know exactly what that is used for in polygon modeling. I seemed to remember ranting about why there were no constraints like being able to draw lines parallel to the nearest edge, etc. Something like that.

Of course, if you have ever said anything critical about Roman's vision you will likely not be accepted at the Caligari forums, so be careful.

I call them constructive crits. You know how tS is bragged to have the only true direct manipulation interface. That's far from reality, as I found out. As everyone probably know, direct manipulation is about ONE CAMERA viewport where you move an object from point A to B without using any other viewport for constraining purposes. That's why, imo, if you really want to aim for a direct manipulation UI, you might as well copy Hexagon's Universal Manipulator and SketchUp's inference engine. You draw a line, for example, and a guide line appears which tells you where exactly your line is going, ie, XYZ direction, snaps to intersections, endpoints, midpoints, on the same existing plane, it tells you that the point is at that object's height, etc.

To whit, I made the comment that upgrading from truespace 5 to tS 7.5 + VRay (not counting sales promotions) would be closer to $1000 than not. I based it on the fact that in order to get rendering features that match what is available in Carrara (you don't get SSS without it) I would have to purchase VRay.

I think Vray for $299 as rendering plugin option is a good deal than buying Vray as a standalone the cost of which ranges from $800 - $3800.

http://www.caligari.com/products/tru...Rendering_vray

tS $549
VRay $299
.5 $50
____________
$898

To me $898 is closer to $1000 than not. And even if you don't get VRay, the upgrade to tS7 is only about a $50 difference from just buying a new license. So my advice to you is, if you do plan on getting 7.5, get in on a deal. My deal came with a free .5 upgrade when it was released.

[medeamajic]

True Space 7 seems to offer multiple views. I used TS 5.0. I did not dig the magic ring way of modeling but others could make it work wonders. I see the TS GUI getting much better buy having menus and icons both like Carrara. TS was supposed to be icon only. I think Carrara is a much better program than TS 5 but will TS 8.0 be better than Carrara 6? Only time will tell. I sold my TS about one week after getting Carrara 5 and Hexagon 1.2. I bought them about two months before the Daz buy out. Eovia always had good upgrades. Carrara matured much faster than TS, Poser or Bryce. I think I may have sold my TS a little prematue. If Eovia was still the owners of Carrara and Hexagon I would not be worried. I know the Carrara staff is still intact but Daz's vision for Carrara might be a bit different then Evoia's vision.

[Sketchy]

Originally Posted by medeamajic

True Space 7 seems to offer multiple views.

Older versions do, actually. But the UI/workflow is supposedly designed to make direct manipulation possible, ie, one viewport most of the time and make use of the other viewports only when necessary. The problem is, there are tons of features in there that require constraining which then negates the direct manipulation bs. You just don't know where your entities are going without being aided being aided with top viewport, side, etc. that it makes the modeling process tedious. Features, imo, that are mere afterthoughts, or fragments which seemed useless to the overall workflow.

Anyhow, seems to me that Caligari is straightening its acts this time. Soon it will be very tough to pick which app to consider getting. It may be a long wait, though. Meanwhile, it may be time to save some money for now.

Btw, when you see Thomas modeling something in Hexagon using only one viewport, that's direct manipulation. I used to model using multiple viewports. I started using only one viewport with Hexagon. It's made possible largely because of Hex's unique Universal Manipulator. I do the same thing as much as possible in other apps since.

[Naes3d]

I was completely and utterly into Eovia until DAZ bought them.

I was (and still am) willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but this new Bryce release has me worried. If this is what we can expect from the next version of Carrara we're in trouble. What works in Carrara's favor is that it isn't nearly behind the times as Bryce was.

Daz really did a good job implementing ways to accomplish the things people were asking for in Bryces next version, but by the time it was released those features were dated. Despite it's price point, Carrara isn't poormans software, which is what Bryce seems to be becoming.

Honestly, I really am only concerned with seeing symmetrical modeling make it into Carrara. If version 6 has that I will be making the upgrade no further questions asked.

When I finally get ahold of tS 7.5, It may become my go to app again. The jury is still out on whether I will pop for VRay. Maybe. VRay at that price is indeed a good deal, but the upgrade price of the core program was not so much a good deal to me. I likely wouldn't have complained if all of the 7.5 features were present in 7.0.

I think one of the things I said that angered the powers that be at Caligari, was in response to their claims that they pioneered the use of widgets. I questioned why if they pioneered them are other softwares making better use of them. A universal manipulator in trueSpace would have made modelling life so much easier. I hated constraining to move along different axes. But 7.5 looks to be adding an improved manipulator which I plan on making extensive use of when it finally arrives.