Opinions-Comments on Manga Studio 3 - Polyloop

cartoonMike · 7th February 2006, 22:49

Just wondering if anybody's investigated/purchased Manga Studio (either debut or EX) 3.0 from e-frontier?

It's a comic book creation software that can import 3D files (OBJ files and such) and allow you to rasterize it for bg or fgs. I can see how this software can work with files created by Carrara/Hexagon to create comics.

There's info on the e-frontier site about it.

What do you think of it?

mike

AWBenson · 8th February 2006, 02:16

I just looked at it. Overall, I'm not too impressed with what I see. Mainly, you scan a drawing of your own and use that to trace on. It mentions "if you used a vector layer" which also implies that it uses bitmap layers for some things. Anyway, it would probablly be close to using adobe's illustrator with reduced functions and abilities.

It states that it has 3000 screentones, but these are something you can acquire for other programs too. Possibily even for low/no cost.

In another note, have you looked at the book called: Digital Manga Workshop?
ISBN: 0-06-075160-0

It gives some alternative programs that is used by Manga artists and gives a good once-over for the process. It's mostly color based, anime style, but does include some b&w manga related topics.

Naes3d · 8th February 2006, 03:33

My 2 cents:

If you are interested in creating manga this may be a worthwhile purchase for you. This product began it's life in Japan so it's bent is toward japanese methods of creating manga. While it may seem so on the surface, manga and comics aren't quite the same.

I guess the best way to explain it is to say that Manga Studio 3 is like a Hexagon or a Silo. Just as those programs are Subdivision Modeling programs i.e., they are designed to support the concept of SDS modelling, Manga Studio supports the concept of creating manga.

A manga is the same as a comic in the same way that spline modelling is the same as polygon modelling.

Any old vector app could concievably do the same thing as Manga Studio, granted the user was familiar with the methods of creating manga. Perhaps the 50 dollar stripped down version combined with Xara, CorelDRAW or Illustrator would suffice for those familiar with manga techniques.

As a side note, you may want to check the progression of Microsoft's Acrylic. Acrylic is a vector and vector paint program that began it's life as MetaCreations Expression (long, long ago). It was puchased from MetaCreations by an asian company that added some functionality to it specifically for the creation of manga (basically speed lines). Of course, Acrylic is in Beta while they round out the Expression suite.

MetaCreations is like the Kevin Bacon of Software companies. Everybody is related through them...

cartoonMike · 8th February 2006, 07:35

Andrew: I looked at the description and sample chapter of the book you mentioned and it sounds okay, but I have quite a few other digital comics and manga books that do the same thing. But if I didn't have those books, I would be ontop of this one in no time.

The things I like about MS is the fact that I can have things remain vector until they're "flattened", being able to have multi-page files and its ruler that can do speed, concentration and "shock" lines. And like I mentioned before, it can import OBJ and DXF (may be DFX...dunno) with textures -- and you can rotate/move/resize the file to fit in the panel as a back, mid or fore ground object.

I was impressed with Manga Studio and as somebody who's done comics on the computer, It's nice that with Manga Studio I can "do it all" in one package with out having to shuttle between Carrara, Painter, Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign to do a comic. Not that shuttling betwix 5 proggies isn't a bad thing... it's just time consuming and drains the brain (and I don't have that much to spare :D)

Naes3d: You're spot on with what you said about Manga. Originally this application was called "Comics Studio" but when Toyko Pop and e-frontier brought it out on this side of the pacific, they changed the name. silly marketing people.

I wouldn't mind trying out expressions, but being on a mac, and that being a microsoftie thang, I don't think it'll happen in this universe.

Thomas · 8th February 2006, 09:38

I prefer purchase OpenCanvas, which allow you to do any kind of drawing and have a very nice screentones set.
OpenCanvas is also a japanese software available in english

JuST · 8th February 2006, 13:40

Is this Manga Studio able to shade with colors? All I could see was just black and white? (I know that a real Manga is supposed to be black and white.)

AWBenson · 8th February 2006, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

I prefer purchase OpenCanvas, which allow you to do any kind of drawing and have a very nice screentones set.
OpenCanvas is also a japanese software available in english

OpenCanvas is an interesting little program. It used to be a free product. After version 1.1-b72, it was being sold as a commerical product.

However, you can still get the free 1.1-b72 version of OpenCanvas and the licease is ok for use. Here is a link to where you can get the freebie version.

http://home.cwru.edu/~nxl25/downloads/opencanvas.exe

However, it's important to note that there is no customer support for this updated version and if you find bugs, there is nothing that can be done unless you pay for the newer versions.

cartoonMike · 8th February 2006, 17:06

Thomas: Yeah, Open Canvas would be nice... if there was a Mac version.

JuST: Manga Studio can do color. At 'rostity there's a thread in the comics corner about that:

http://www.renderosity.com/messages....essage=2574397

It's an ongoing tute/walkthrough and may take a few days to finish.

Althought this software is named, "Manga Studio," I really think that aspects of the Manga style will make an impact on US comics in the same way that European comics did back in the late 70's and 80's. I know it's affected the way I both write and draw my stories.

Naes3d · 9th February 2006, 00:57

Quote:

Naes3d: You're spot on with what you said about Manga. Originally this application was called "Comics Studio" but when Toyko Pop and e-frontier brought it out on this side of the pacific, they changed the name. silly marketing people.

I wouldn't mind trying out expressions, but being on a mac, and that being a microsoftie thang, I don't think it'll happen in this universe.

Yeah, for a minute it looked as if they were still going to support the mac base as the initial beta was available only on the mac, then... well, you know...they are microsoft...

I have been debating whether to purchase MS too, but let me go take a look at OpenCanvas...

cartoonMike · 11th February 2006, 05:38

Andrew: I was at the local borders and thought to check out the Digital Manga Studio book. Well, I'm home now and that copy of the book is with me. Excellent book, lots of stuff that wasn't apparent in the TOC and sample pages. I also picked up Manga Secrets by Lea Hernandez (one of my favorite authors, she's done A few manga I really like) that went into more than just the big eyes- speed lines aspects of what makes up Manga. Thanks for the heads up on the book, dude!

Naes3d: I was able to pick up a copy of Expressions for the Mac from the Microsoftie site (Sheesh, doing the passport reg was awful) gonna play around with it a bit and see what I can do with the proggie.

AWBenson · 11th February 2006, 05:46

Your welcome. I too have lots of "how to draw" anime-type books. Here's another golden gem of books if you are interested:

How to Draw Manga Costume Encyclopedia Vol. 1 Everyday Fashion
(number 33 in the How to series)
ISBN: 4-7661-1257-1

I found this book to be incredibly good at looking at clothing and adding variety to character designs. Being a "normal" guy, I'm not into the latest fashions and I don't know what makes one a jacket ultra-cropped verus another with flounces. This book illustrates out each garmet type to which you would ideally mix and match with characteristics of another type and make new garmets that are unique yet also believable. This one is very handy in manga, 3D or other art.

JuST · 11th February 2006, 12:05

I think Manga Studio Ex is too expensive (at least for me). It is less expensive for students and Poser-owners but unfortunately I do not own Poser and only students who are residents of the USA are allowed to buy the student version of the educational resellers (checked them all)

Naes3d · 14th February 2006, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuST

I think Manga Studio Ex is too expensive (at least for me). It is less expensive for students and Poser-owners but unfortunately I do not own Poser and only students who are residents of the USA are allowed to buy the student version of the educational resellers (checked them all)

You can pick up a copy of poser 5 for like $50 and the Debut version for the same price. If you really want it, $100 for both isn't bad. These prices are at purplus.com. You have to check the site for current prices. That's where I got Carrara and Poser.

cartoonMike: My favorite tool was the handle for adjusting thickness. Is the Digital Manga Studio book the one that included the CD Rom of tones as a plugin for Photoshop and Paintshop Pro? I 've been meaning to get that one to add to my collection of Manga books...

And this may or may not prove useful:

How To Draw Manga Volume 37: Macromedia FLASH Techniques: Illustrating Bishoujo Characters

ISBN: 4766114086

Those techniques practically apply to any vector program.

cartoonMike · 14th February 2006, 07:22

Naes3d:Nope, the Digital Manga Studio book I got had no CDrom. but still worthy, imo.

The Macromedia Flash Techniques Manga book really helped me get into creating "real" art with vectors. The way it showed how to control and use gradiations was worth twice the price of the book. It's helped me in both flash and Illustrator.

I'm still going to check out the book Andrew mentioned, but I find that picking up the latest issue of InStyle, among other fashion mags, does the same thing -- and keeps me current on fashion. Not to mention giving the spousal unit something to laugh about ;> Y'see I'm just wearing black until I find something darker.

Thanks everyone for sharing info on this thread. It's been very helpful!

arcady · 14th February 2006, 23:25

Is this product really only good for people who -draw- in 2d? Or is it good for people wanting to take 3D material and turn out comics?

JuST · 14th February 2006, 23:32

Well for both I guess, but I'm not sure whether it can make colored 3d things look like colored 2d things... I think this function works only for the greyscaled 2d-tones?

cartoonMike · 15th February 2006, 00:47

Arcady: It can be used for 2D drawing and for importing OBJs for tracing (either by hand or via the program). I believe that the 3D can be on its own layer and the imported OBJ can be resized, rotatated, etc... Or one can just import a render and draw on a layer above it.

Naes3d · 15th February 2006, 04:48

I say the answer is both Arcady.

WillBellJr · 2nd March 2006, 23:49

Well, it's not specifically for Manga, but I prefer Moho 5 for all of my cartooning needs - bones, squishy splines and springy secondary actions, it goes a long way when I need to pump out 2d-ish work...

-Will

cartoonMike · 3rd March 2006, 18:18

I've looked at Moho and was impressed by it, when I start doing more animation I may get it.

I've been playing with MangaStudio and I am truly impressed with it. It says a lot about ease of use and such when you concider that my first effort with MangaStudio won a contest held by contentParadise and RuntimeDNA. Check it out at:

http://www.runtimedna.com/news.php?viewStory=886

My next thing will be to design interiors with Hex and Car and import into MangaStudio and see how that works.

btw: on the page above, I'm listed as "MrMongo" and "CartoonJoe" -- the last should've been "CartoonMike"

later

7th February 2006, 22:49	#1 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Opinions-Comments on Manga Studio 3 Just wondering if anybody's investigated/purchased Manga Studio (either debut or EX) 3.0 from e-frontier? It's a comic book creation software that can import 3D files (OBJ files and such) and allow you to rasterize it for bg or fgs. I can see how this software can work with files created by Carrara/Hexagon to create comics. There's info on the e-frontier site about it. What do you think of it? mike

8th February 2006, 02:16	#2 (permalink)
AWBenson Box modeling Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 292	I just looked at it. Overall, I'm not too impressed with what I see. Mainly, you scan a drawing of your own and use that to trace on. It mentions "if you used a vector layer" which also implies that it uses bitmap layers for some things. Anyway, it would probablly be close to using adobe's illustrator with reduced functions and abilities. It states that it has 3000 screentones, but these are something you can acquire for other programs too. Possibily even for low/no cost. In another note, have you looked at the book called: Digital Manga Workshop? ISBN: 0-06-075160-0 It gives some alternative programs that is used by Manga artists and gives a good once-over for the process. It's mostly color based, anime style, but does include some b&w manga related topics. __________________ Andrew Benson AKA: AWBenson www.awbenson.com andrew (at) awbenson (dot) com

8th February 2006, 09:38	#5 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	I prefer purchase OpenCanvas, which allow you to do any kind of drawing and have a very nice screentones set. OpenCanvas is also a japanese software available in english __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

11th February 2006, 05:46	#11 (permalink)
AWBenson Box modeling Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 292	Your welcome. I too have lots of "how to draw" anime-type books. Here's another golden gem of books if you are interested: How to Draw Manga Costume Encyclopedia Vol. 1 Everyday Fashion (number 33 in the How to series) ISBN: 4-7661-1257-1 I found this book to be incredibly good at looking at clothing and adding variety to character designs. Being a "normal" guy, I'm not into the latest fashions and I don't know what makes one a jacket ultra-cropped verus another with flounces. This book illustrates out each garmet type to which you would ideally mix and match with characteristics of another type and make new garmets that are unique yet also believable. This one is very handy in manga, 3D or other art. __________________ Andrew Benson AKA: AWBenson www.awbenson.com andrew (at) awbenson (dot) com

14th February 2006, 23:25	#15 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	Is this product really only good for people who -draw- in 2d? Or is it good for people wanting to take 3D material and turn out comics? __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

8th February 2006, 03:33	#3 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	My 2 cents: If you are interested in creating manga this may be a worthwhile purchase for you. This product began it's life in Japan so it's bent is toward japanese methods of creating manga. While it may seem so on the surface, manga and comics aren't quite the same. I guess the best way to explain it is to say that Manga Studio 3 is like a Hexagon or a Silo. Just as those programs are Subdivision Modeling programs i.e., they are designed to support the concept of SDS modelling, Manga Studio supports the concept of creating manga. A manga is the same as a comic in the same way that spline modelling is the same as polygon modelling. Any old vector app could concievably do the same thing as Manga Studio, granted the user was familiar with the methods of creating manga. Perhaps the 50 dollar stripped down version combined with Xara, CorelDRAW or Illustrator would suffice for those familiar with manga techniques. As a side note, you may want to check the progression of Microsoft's Acrylic. Acrylic is a vector and vector paint program that began it's life as MetaCreations Expression (long, long ago). It was puchased from MetaCreations by an asian company that added some functionality to it specifically for the creation of manga (basically speed lines). Of course, Acrylic is in Beta while they round out the Expression suite. MetaCreations is like the Kevin Bacon of Software companies. Everybody is related through them...

8th February 2006, 07:35	#4 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Andrew: I looked at the description and sample chapter of the book you mentioned and it sounds okay, but I have quite a few other digital comics and manga books that do the same thing. But if I didn't have those books, I would be ontop of this one in no time. The things I like about MS is the fact that I can have things remain vector until they're "flattened", being able to have multi-page files and its ruler that can do speed, concentration and "shock" lines. And like I mentioned before, it can import OBJ and DXF (may be DFX...dunno) with textures -- and you can rotate/move/resize the file to fit in the panel as a back, mid or fore ground object. I was impressed with Manga Studio and as somebody who's done comics on the computer, It's nice that with Manga Studio I can "do it all" in one package with out having to shuttle between Carrara, Painter, Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign to do a comic. Not that shuttling betwix 5 proggies isn't a bad thing... it's just time consuming and drains the brain (and I don't have that much to spare :D) Naes3d: You're spot on with what you said about Manga. Originally this application was called "Comics Studio" but when Toyko Pop and e-frontier brought it out on this side of the pacific, they changed the name. silly marketing people. I wouldn't mind trying out expressions, but being on a mac, and that being a microsoftie thang, I don't think it'll happen in this universe.

8th February 2006, 13:40	#6 (permalink)
JuST Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Braunschweig, Germany Posts: 500	Is this Manga Studio able to shade with colors? All I could see was just black and white? (I know that a real Manga is supposed to be black and white.)

8th February 2006, 17:06	#8 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Thomas: Yeah, Open Canvas would be nice... if there was a Mac version. JuST: Manga Studio can do color. At 'rostity there's a thread in the comics corner about that: http://www.renderosity.com/messages....essage=2574397 It's an ongoing tute/walkthrough and may take a few days to finish. Althought this software is named, "Manga Studio," I really think that aspects of the Manga style will make an impact on US comics in the same way that European comics did back in the late 70's and 80's. I know it's affected the way I both write and draw my stories.

11th February 2006, 05:38	#10 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Andrew: I was at the local borders and thought to check out the Digital Manga Studio book. Well, I'm home now and that copy of the book is with me. Excellent book, lots of stuff that wasn't apparent in the TOC and sample pages. I also picked up Manga Secrets by Lea Hernandez (one of my favorite authors, she's done A few manga I really like) that went into more than just the big eyes- speed lines aspects of what makes up Manga. Thanks for the heads up on the book, dude! Naes3d: I was able to pick up a copy of Expressions for the Mac from the Microsoftie site (Sheesh, doing the passport reg was awful) gonna play around with it a bit and see what I can do with the proggie.

11th February 2006, 12:05	#12 (permalink)
JuST Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Braunschweig, Germany Posts: 500	I think Manga Studio Ex is too expensive (at least for me). It is less expensive for students and Poser-owners but unfortunately I do not own Poser and only students who are residents of the USA are allowed to buy the student version of the educational resellers (checked them all)

14th February 2006, 07:22	#14 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Naes3d:Nope, the Digital Manga Studio book I got had no CDrom. but still worthy, imo. The Macromedia Flash Techniques Manga book really helped me get into creating "real" art with vectors. The way it showed how to control and use gradiations was worth twice the price of the book. It's helped me in both flash and Illustrator. I'm still going to check out the book Andrew mentioned, but I find that picking up the latest issue of InStyle, among other fashion mags, does the same thing -- and keeps me current on fashion. Not to mention giving the spousal unit something to laugh about ;> Y'see I'm just wearing black until I find something darker. Thanks everyone for sharing info on this thread. It's been very helpful!

14th February 2006, 23:32	#16 (permalink)
JuST Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Braunschweig, Germany Posts: 500	Well for both I guess, but I'm not sure whether it can make colored 3d things look like colored 2d things... I think this function works only for the greyscaled 2d-tones?

15th February 2006, 00:47	#17 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	Arcady: It can be used for 2D drawing and for importing OBJs for tracing (either by hand or via the program). I believe that the 3D can be on its own layer and the imported OBJ can be resized, rotatated, etc... Or one can just import a render and draw on a layer above it.

15th February 2006, 04:48	#18 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	I say the answer is both Arcady.

2nd March 2006, 23:49	#19 (permalink)
WillBellJr Box modeling Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 207	Well, it's not specifically for Manga, but I prefer Moho 5 for all of my cartooning needs - bones, squishy splines and springy secondary actions, it goes a long way when I need to pump out 2d-ish work... -Will

3rd March 2006, 18:18	#20 (permalink)
cartoonMike Cube Join Date: May 2005 Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA Posts: 69	...and one more thing... I've looked at Moho and was impressed by it, when I start doing more animation I may get it. I've been playing with MangaStudio and I am truly impressed with it. It says a lot about ease of use and such when you concider that my first effort with MangaStudio won a contest held by contentParadise and RuntimeDNA. Check it out at: http://www.runtimedna.com/news.php?viewStory=886 My next thing will be to design interiors with Hex and Car and import into MangaStudio and see how that works. btw: on the page above, I'm listed as "MrMongo" and "CartoonJoe" -- the last should've been "CartoonMike" later

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