[Others]Modo to Lightwave?

[jbshorty]

Hi all. I am considering the $495 sidegrade offer to buy Lightwave. But right now, the trial version is n/a. I suppose they are working on updating to the 9.5 demo version. I like using Modo's render engine, but it falls short in some areas for me. And my feeling is that 401 will bring many CA tools which i really don't need yet, while Lightwave already seems to have many tools which i do need (particles, hair, body dynamics). And i think it will be many versions away (perhaps 501 or 601) before modo can do that stuff. So can anybody here who has experience using both programs give me some objective opinions?

• Maybe some advantages/disadvantages of each?
• Render speed/quality comparisons?
• Workflow comparisons?
• Ease to set up lighting and shaders?
• How well does LW handle mesh instancing?
• Can LW reference (and update) external files?
• Can LW do technical renders (cel, hidden line, pencil sketch, etc)

I have no plans to give up using Modo. As texturing system, i think it will compliment Lightwave quite well. And i mostly use Rhino for modeling anyway. But I'm asking here to avoid the replies of fanboys on either side of the fence. Thanks all...

jonah

[Tartiflette]

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Hi all. I am considering the $495 sidegrade offer to buy Lightwave. But right now, the trial version is n/a. I suppose they are working on updating to the 9.5 demo version.

Hi Jonah !
Yeah, Newtek is aware of that and considering we are actually in OpenBeta you won't be able to download it before v9.5 ships.
But i'm not from Newtek and i could be wrong here, just guessing.

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Maybe some advantages/disadvantages of each?

For LW : Fully featured/Widely used across the world/Lots of plugins/Lots of Tutorials/Greatly improved in the v9.x serie
For modo : Modern app/Great GUI/Good modelling tools/Great renderer/3D painting & sculpting/Good video tutorials

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Render speed/quality comparisons?

Before LW v9.5 i would have said modo but now they are quite on par with one or the other being faster depending on scenes and setup...

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Workflow comparisons?

LW and modo have been developed by the same guys in the begining so they compare in term of philosophy and workflow, modo being more "modern" in that it has started well after LW so the yhave learned from previous experience.
Now i believe (but again it's just me...) that next version of LightWave will bring a big step forward in that area.

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Ease to set up lighting and shaders?

The lights are really simple to setup in LightWave and the shaders are applied in the texture editor, where you can use layers or nodes or even layers and nodes.
Probably one of the most powerful feature of LightWave.

Originally Posted by jbshorty

How well does LW handle mesh instancing?

It's quite simple : it doesn't !
In fact you can do instancing but with a plug-in called HDinstance which is very powerful.
However it was said that LW would do instancing at one point in v9.x serie so we will see what will come.

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Can LW reference (and update) external files?

In fact LightWave works like that, being two separate apps : a Modeler and a Layout.
And in Layout you bring up models done in Modeler or in other apps (OBJ or 3DS files in addition to LWO...)
But you're probably asking for something else ?

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Can LW do technical renders (cel, hidden line, pencil sketch, etc)

You can do cel shading or also shaded hidden line rendering with a free plug-in.

Hope it helps.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[jbshorty]

Thanks Laurent! One thing i don't like about Modo is the lack of node systems. I've been using Brazil for Rhino during the last few months, and the nodes are very powerful. I much prefer this instead of using Modo's "shader stack". Also i know that using FPrime should improve the render set up and speed. Price of FPrime+LW is about the same as modo. So it's a very reasonable crossgrade price! One thing i don't like about Lightwave is the UI. That thing is really a dinosaur. A big ugly dinosaur! I just watched a video showing multiple model files being opened in Layout, and it does look very much like referenced files. So i guess that should be OK... Now i just have to wait until the demo is available once again. Hopefully soon.

ALSO - What is the name of the free cel shading plugin? I want to check it out... Thanks!

jonah

[Tartiflette]

In fact you have an "integrated" plug-in in LightWave which is "SuperCel Shader" but you also can find "Unreal Extreme" which is free and extremly (as the name says ! ) powerful.
Another thing to note is that you can achieve some amazing pencils effects with Nodal (LW node system...) but that require a good understanding of nodes and how the y work in LightWave.

The last thin i'd add is that Fprime is great and "required" if you're used to modo's preview workflow.
But as a renderer LightWave in its last stage (v9.5 beta...) is very very very fast (did i mention it's fast ? ) ans allows you to render with all the bells and whistles that only a native renderer can render, i.e. lens flares/hair&fur/glow effects and all the pixel filter plug-ins.

In fact i use now the GI renderer in LW that allows very fast pixelated previews to setup the lighting of my scenes, without even using any third party plug-in.
It's good for my wallet.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[WillBellJr]

Check Flay.com for all things LW plugins

-Will

[jbshorty]

Thanks Will...

[Wася]

Don't even think I will follow you, shorty!

P.S. However, some time ago I thought about LW also.

[jbshorty]

Originally Posted by Wася

Don't even think I will follow you, shorty!

P.S. However, some time ago I thought about LW also.

We will see about that! It depends which is shorter, your memory or your wallet!!!

[Wася]

hehe

there is more probability it will be XSI Foundation or even 3dsmax, because the real issue is a physical shipment. Russian custom services is completely insane, and DHL and FedEx are even more insane here.

But the best of the best of the best are so-called "official resellers". Take a guess how much Maya Unlimited costs here (US price is $5000). But thanks God we have no official Newtek resellers here.

[Tartiflette]

Originally Posted by Wася

hehe

there is more probability it will be XSI Foundation or even 3dsmax, because the real issue is a physical shipment. Russian custom services is completely insane, and DHL and FedEx are even more insane here.

But the best of the best of the best are so-called "official resellers". Take a guess how much Maya Unlimited costs here (US price is $5000). But thanks God we have no official Newtek resellers here.

I'm sure you can get LightWave by the Web if you really wish to !


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[Wася]

You mean IRC or torrents? Too easy.
I prefer arduous ways.

[Tartiflette]

No no, i meant by totally legal ways !
Sorry for the confusion i'm a LightWaver since 15 years now so...
Although you're probably right about the fact it's the simplest way to get it unfortunately...


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[Wася]

Yes, LW can be ordered by web, but the dongle can not be sent to me by Internet. And I have no itntention to pay additional 50-70% for nothing.

So I'm talking about staff that could be delivered electronically.

[Tartiflette]

Oh you're right i almost forgot about dongle !
That must be because i have had mine for something like 15 years now !


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[Wася]

15 years... Of course you forgot.
I guess for 15 years your dongle is stuck in your computer, and they could not be separated anymore.

[Tartiflette]

In fatc n it isn't that tied to my computer as i change on a (very...) regular basis, let's 2 or 3 times a year...
And it has already been a bad thing for me since i've already lost my dongle one time, but that's another story.

Back on topic, have you ever asked Newtek Europe about the possibilties to get LightWave in Russia ?
I'm sure they could do something for you.
If you ever want to ask them, just drop me a PM, i know everyone in there and i'll tell them to accomodate you as well as they can.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[Wася]

Originally Posted by Tartiflette

...i've already lost my dongle one time, but that's another story.

yeah, I have a story like that - I lost my XSI v5 dongle before I activated it.

Originally Posted by Tartiflette

Back on topic, have you ever asked Newtek Europe about the possibilties to get LightWave in Russia ?
I'm sure they could do something for you.

I think they could, but shipping/taxes issues are not the only ones.

Originally Posted by Tartiflette

If you ever want to ask them, just drop me a PM, i know everyone in there and i'll tell them to accomodate you as well as they can.

Thanks a lot, Laurent. I mean it.
But I found that XSI suites me better, it seems to be more natural for my forefeet. So I will either get Foundation by the web or I will find a way to get boxed Essential edition from Canada after my current trial will expire.

And, by the way, when XSI has a problems with getting obj or fbx from modo, it can get lwo!

[Tartiflette]

Well if you already have XSI that's for sure another story !
XSI is a great product, even in its foundation edition and at a price !!!
Too bad it doesn't exist on Mac...
(natively, you can always run it via Bootcamp or VmWare...)

Anyway, as i said if you ever want to buy it, just tell me and i'm sure Newtek Europe can get that sorted out !


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette

[Thomas]

Just remind you. No warez and illegal stuff conversation here at polyloop. Thank you.

[Tartiflette]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Just remind you. No warez and illegal stuff conversation here at polyloop. Thank you.

No problem Thomas, WACR just misunderstood my words.
But as i said after it wasn't clear enough that i was talking of legal ways to get it from the net.

Hey i'm a Beta-Tester for Newtek and people at Newtek Europe are all friends of mine so i see no interest of telling people how to get it illegally !
And unfortunately those who want to know how to do anyway so...


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette