Truespace users

[crazy wabbit]

Hi, With the release of Truespace 7.5, how do you think it compares to Carrara?

I bought Carrara when there was no Truespace 7.5, I am still very happy with my purchase. Do you think 7.5 is catching up with Carrara?

[medeamajic]

I had TS 3, 4 and 5. I stopped after 5. I did not like the Magic Ring modeling of TS compared to Carrara's vertex modeler. TS had icons instead of menus but I know TS 7 offers icons ands menus like Carrara. I sold my TS stuff on ebay after the release of Carrara 5 Pro. I felt Carrara was much more advanced and TS would always play catch up. I do not feel that way anymore. Infact I am looking at TS, LightWave and XSI because I do feel as though Daz will put Carrara in it's coffin very soon. TS is getting upgrades in a decent time frame. As of now Carrara is off schedual for the 6.0 upgrade just like Bryce's upgrade path is way of schedual. TS may be the better option. I do like Carrara but I know Lightwave, XSI and TS will all get better and better. I am not sure about Hexagon, Bryce or Carrara. I only bought into TS because Carrara 1.0 did not offer bones and skeletons but TS had them. TS was not bad even at version 5.

[transient]

I would say trueSpace 7.5 has surpassed Carrara in many ways, and it is also an affordable way to get v-ray.

They rewrote the core for 7.0 and it's starting to bear fruit.

The magic ring in TS is just a way of building and adjusting primitives, it's not vertex modelling (which TS has been good at for a while now).

[LoneGunman]

Agree with Transient here, being able to choose rendering engine while keeping interface you like is a very good path in development.

V-ray is excellent for architectural/indoor type of renders where Carrara and Vue still have a lot to desire...

[crazy wabbit]

I personally will go where the crowd is, so Modo is one that I am looking into. Crowd means demand, it means cash and it means support. There is not a big enough crowd surrounding neither truespace nor carrara.

There are two factors stopping anyone from trying out these packages.
1) time to learn them
2) money to buy them

Truespace was stalling for the longest time, and people were given up on it, believe me I was in the midst of it. Now they are slowly coming back but the crowd is different than the crowd that uses lets say lightwave or XSI.

So it ends up in the crowd. How about a crowd of crazy wabbits?

[jbshorty]

Hi Behzad - My avatar seems to be having an identity crisis. It thinks it's your avatar. A few days ago it started placing the line "Pixar want to hire me!". but i never set this up. I tried to remove it, but it's not displaying in my profile settings. How do you edit that text string? I want to remove it... Who is this Pixar(?) anyway...

back to subject - I am not interested in Truespace except for one feature (Nurbs metablobs). They look really interesting.

shorty

[crazy wabbit]

Originally Posted by jbshorty

Hi Behzad - My avatar seems to be having an identity crisis. It thinks it's your avatar. A few days ago it started placing the line "Pixar want to hire me!". but i never set this up. I tried to remove it, but it's not displaying in my profile settings. How do you edit that text string? I want to remove it... Who is this Pixar(?) anyway...shorty

i think the administrator assigns that to us. I wish mine would say
"One crazy Wabbit". You can ask the admin to change it.

[transient]

Truespace was stalling for the longest time, and people were given up on it, believe me I was in the midst of it.

Caligari did what Avid did with Softimage and rewrote the core of the program, leading to delays in it's upgrade time. The only people who gave up from what I saw were mostly fly-by-nighters. I see the same whiners in other forums using apps like Lightwave and doing very little with them.

The major complaints were with it's animation system, which has seen a massive upgrade now from what I can see. Carrara users could only dream of this at the moment.

That said, most people interested in working for a major studio go to max or maya as these are by far your best bet of getting a job, with XSI also not a bad option if you believe their hype.

Many Max users also see the need for it to be rewritten from the ground up, however you can imagine the uproar if 3ds had two years downtime.

I personally will go where the crowd is, so Modo is one that I am looking into. Crowd means demand, it means cash and it means support. There is not a big enough crowd surrounding neither truespace nor carrara.

Also remember that if you follow the herd, you'll end up eating dust.

Caligari have the only forums I know of (apart from silo) where the actual developers of the program, including it's original creator, post in forum threads, and also provide one-on-one support this way as well.

I would say the modo crowd is pretty small as well. It's not a huge fan-favourite like zbrush. Modo is cool, but it's not a major player by Autodesk standards.

If you want to join the 3d masses, my advice would be to buy Max and go crowd surfing in the mob.

[crazy wabbit]

I always appreciate your comments coming from a bearded man like you. So wise.

[jbshorty]

Originally Posted by transient

Caligari have the only forums I know of (apart from silo) where the actual developers of the program, including it's original creator, post in forum threads, and also provide one-on-one support this way as well.

Rhino is another good example. There's about 4 programmers involved in daily discussions. If you get in a jam, post a request, often one of their programmers will write a new script for you on the same day. Bob McNeel also responds personally to topics. He was on the forums today...

Originally Posted by transient

I would say the modo crowd is pretty small as well. It's not a huge fan-favourite like zbrush. Modo is cool, but it's not a major player by Autodesk standards...

That's the truth. I bought it a few weeks ago, so i've been watching their forums. Modo puts on the appearance of having a large user base. But in truth, it is quite small. Due to it's high price, the pro to hobbyist ratio is quite tilted towards pro modelers when compared to other apps. This gives them high profile by recognized artists. Add that to Luxology's clever marketing staff, and Modo seems to have a larger user base than it really does. It is a nice program. But at this moment it won't be your main program (unless you don't need animating or rigging tools)...

shorty

[camelo]

I have to agree with transient. I use Carrara 5 pro, Hexagon 2.1 (both of which I really like but they both crash so many times!), Blender, Bryce 6.1, Daz Studio 1.5, Poser5, Poser7 & trueSpace 6.6 and they all have their good points. But, although trueSpace 7.5 is not yet available (probably April 30th), you only have to look at some of the videos here:
http://www.caligari.com/products/tru...sp?Cate=BIntro
to see that all the above programs pale into insignificance in comparison. I have pre-ordered my copy and can't wait for the release. Mind you, I can't wait for the next releases of Hex & Carrara either.
I wouldn't "go with the crowd" I use software that I can get results with.

[Sketchy]

TrueSpace was one of those pioneers in 3D applications. I remember looking at a section of a shelf in a local bookstore a long time ago: 3d Max, Lightwave and TS (I'm not sure if I saw C4D, but I think it's there). I knew nothing about 3d then except AutoCAD's elementary feature. At the time I thought TrueSpace looked promising. Fast forward, we now see that it is the only pioneer who hasn't made it in the film industry. And today the dry reception in the whole CG community hasn't cooled off. I don't know what happened.

I'm thinking of upgrading my TS6.6 to 7.5. I wish they come up with a trial version before I dive into it. If you're a beginner, TrueSpace is XSI with icons. The devs are just not good in streamlining operations, ie, magic rings are a waste of time. Simple features have about a thousand options, which make the learning curve too steep to hang on to. Just my 2c, take it as it is, 2c.

[crazy wabbit]

Originally Posted by Sketchy

TrueSpace is XSI with icons.

Please do not say that, that is insane, just look at the caligari animation gallery and then look at the XSI animation gallery.

[Sketchy]

Talking about streamlining, I don't know if they have learned something at all with the advent of new apps such as Hexagon and Silo. They can't seem to give up the bloat. One of these days, I'm certain that these pioneers will come up with their own versions of modeling apps realizing that it doesn't have to be that complicated.

Man, if they haven't seen MOI, they're probably sleeping or hasn't come to terms with reality.

[tonymax]

i tried 7.5 for the last few days..

i found the interface quirky.. not used to all those icons... tho i guess with time..

there are 3 render engines, each uses its owns shadres and materials.. i found this confusing, when all i want to was set a simple scene up. much easier in carrara.. :-)

vray looked promising..., but i didnt see anythng that carrara couldnt do... tho some of the control and realtime shader view were excelent in truespace7.5.

probably on a par with carrara now but carrara easier in my opinion.. i just odont have th patience to learn TS.

animation controls are more refined in carrara... but i liked the character animation, rigging and mesh control more in TS..

SDS were a little quirky, i use hex2 and silo and they seem a lot more intuative.. again a learning curve...

just a few ideas, i like the interface to TS7.5, and with vray, is a promising app for a new 3D'er... and more advanced. some of the demo vids and pics are amazing..

my 2c worth..

[camelo]

Originally Posted by tonymax

i tried 7.5 for the last few days..

i found the interface quirky.. not used to all those icons... tho i guess with time..

there are 3 render engines, each uses its owns shadres and materials.. i found this confusing, when all i want to was set a simple scene up. much easier in carrara.. :-)

vray looked promising..., but i didnt see anythng that carrara couldnt do... tho some of the control and realtime shader view were excelent in truespace7.5.

probably on a par with carrara now but carrara easier in my opinion.. i just odont have th patience to learn TS.

animation controls are more refined in carrara... but i liked the character animation, rigging and mesh control more in TS..

SDS were a little quirky, i use hex2 and silo and they seem a lot more intuative.. again a learning curve...

just a few ideas, i like the interface to TS7.5, and with vray, is a promising app for a new 3D'er... and more advanced. some of the demo vids and pics are amazing..

my 2c worth..

Hi tonymax,

I must agree, even though I have used trueSpace 6.6 a bit, I found the UI very confusing, though my saving grace is the fact that you can switch to the 6.6 UI very easily using the built in bridge.
And as far as the pdf manual is concerned, whilst very comprehensive, it does assume a fair bit of trueSpace experience. I had trouble following the first tutorial! How on earth new users would cope with it, I do not know.
I have it on good authority though that Roman realises this and will be releasing updates & video tutes.
Saying that, I have successfully created a model fairly easily in 7.5 which I wouldn't have had a clue how to do in Carrara5.1 pro or Hex 2.1. If only Carrara & Hex would stop crashing, I would have more confidence in using them more. They are excellent programs otherwise.

my 2d worth!

Brian

[crazy wabbit]

Originally Posted by camelo

If only Carrara & Hex would stop crashing, I would have more confidence in using them more. They are excellent programs otherwise.

Brian, I was an early user of Truespace 4 up to 6.6, The program was not stable, crashes all the time, so It was not perfect. No program is perfect. The people at Daz are hard at work to fix all bugs, but carrara has not crashed on me at all, Hex is another story.

Good luck and stay in tuned.

[camelo]

Originally Posted by behzad

Brian, I was an early user of Truespace 4 up to 6.6, The program was not stable, crashes all the time, so It was not perfect. No program is perfect. The people at Daz are hard at work to fix all bugs, but carrara has not crashed on me at all, Hex is another story.

Good luck and stay in tuned.

Hi behzad,

Thanks for your reply. I actually have the reverse situation. Truespace, from v3 upward, has never crashed on me. You only have to look at the Daz bug tracker forum to see how many problems Carrara & Hex users have. I actually posted a problem to the forum as sometimes with Carrara all my menu texts disappear
Don't get me wrong, I know that no program is perfect; I love both programs & I know that Daz are now starting to sort these out. There has been a lot of activity in the forums lately from the Daz side.
I am really looking forward to the next releases.
All I can say is that if Carrara hasn't crashed on you, then you are a VERY lucky person

Brian

[transient]

Truespace 7.5 is excellent. It's a massive upgrade from 6.6.

You can't really compare Carrara's renderer, although decent, with Vray imo.

V-ray's much faster and has pretty much better everything. It's widely regarded as one of the best renderer's in the industry, and now I know why. I still can't believe I got it for 200 bucks!

Only Shade's Callisto renderer really compares from what I've used, and it's much harder to use.

No offense to Carrara users but TS 7.5 is much more powerful and organised imo. That said, there's no reason to dump any app you're happy with if you're a fan.

I still like and intend to use Shade, even though it pales in comparison in many ways to TS it does have a few features missing in TS or superior. No 3d app has it all, not even the big boys.

TS 7.5's new interface is elegant, although you do have to delegate some downtime to get used to it. The lack of the traditional "File - Save as/ Exit etc" threw me at first.

However, I extremely dislike the rooms metaphor in Carrara, which others like, so I guess this is subjective.

i found the interface quirky.. not used to all those icons... tho i guess with time..

If you're having trouble with the icons you can turn them to text. And the library icons can be turned into text, or text with icons. I do agree the manual needs work, but I've mangaed to get a handle on the app in a couple of days with some hard work.

Ts 7.5 isn't perfect (it's still in some ways a wip), but my intitial reaction is mostly "wow", which is something I haven't experienced with graphics software for a long time, and I haven't even touched the animation side of things yet, which is one of 7.5's big selling points.

I think my main worry is that some people may try TS 7.5 and expect instant gratification like Bryce or Carrara. But this is a different animal, kind of like Shade, and requires some adjustment so maybe bear that in mind if you decide to try it.

Here's a screenshot of Ts's workspace. You Carrara guys should really bug Daz for something similar in the next version.

[Frenchy Pilou]

Rhino is another good example. There's about 4 programmers involved in daily discussions. If you get in a jam, post a request, often one of their programmers will write a new script for you on the same day. Bob McNeel also responds personally to topics. He was on the forums today

What is the adresses of the forum?
Thx by advance