Truespace users

[medeamajic]

I think eveyone is a little bit blinded as of now. One big difference between TS and Carrara is that TS is still under the same ownership and Carrara is now owned by a content provider. TS is getting better and better as opposed to Carrara remaining stagnant. 2 years ago I thought Carrara had the better GUI but I do not feel that way anymore. TS 7 is a big improvment over version 6 and Carrara 5 is getting very old very quick.

[Nichod]

Hey. If anyone wants TS at a discounted price. Let me know I have version 6 and they you can upgrade for a good deal. Just email me. I'd like $60 +shipping. It even includes all of the special paks that give you simulated rain, virtualight, etc.

[Naes3d]

Nichod is offering a pretty good deal there.

It is very good that tS is still owned by Caligari, but I think it is still a little early to say that DAZ' role as a content provider is going to hurt Carrara development. It's been said over and over again that the same developers are behind Carrara 6 as the previous version. Time will tell if this actualy makes a difference.

Carrara is still being developed, so I wouldn't say stagnant is a fair description. A Mac/Intel version was available not that long after the new mac line shipped. All work on Carrara 5 is done and all current work is on Carrara 6. That would be like if I said that Caligari was stagnant because there was no work being done on tS 6 while they were working on tS7.

It would seem that DAZ wants the sixth version to be their product. I assume this because they have let the Eovia brand persist on version 5. At first I believed this to be a huge faux pas, but now I think that it might be because they want to make their mark with version 6. I think DAZ is pretty aware that they need to impress people.

As far as the GUI goes, I still feel that the new tS GUI is very similar to the old Carrara GUI. Even the colors are somewhat similar. And the Carrara is GUI is designed to be a bit more intuitive than tS'. I think tS and Carrara have had two of the most controversial GUI's in 3D for a while now. For some users, it's like picking between the Devil and the deep blue sea...

[Nichod]

Both Carrara and Truespace have their advantages. I would still choose Carrara over Truespace. Lots of advantages in Carrara that Truespace can't touch. Look at the Shader tree for instance. Nothing out there can touch its combination of simplicity and complexity. The only one thats better in my opinion is the one in Messiah thats node based. Carrara's rendering engine is just as capable as any of the options Truespace offers. And Truespace still has a huge seperation between the new updated "player" and the majority of the modeling tools (TS6).

Other benefits of Carrara: realistic sky, tree generator, terrain generator, etc.

[crazy wabbit]

I think the problems is that most people do not know how to use carrara fully, like myself.

[Sketchy]

It's because not a lot of Carrara users are producing video tutorials. I'm talking about specific features or complete projects like the shoe or wristwatch in Lux's site. I'd be interested to buy an in-depth tutorial on Carrara's shading feature, for example. I'm thinking of making tutorial bits and sell them to DAZ after C6 is released.

[crazy wabbit]

your right, many including myself do need good tutorials. The two on VTC and Lynda did not touch too deep on Shaders or uvmapping, two badly needed tutorials. I encourage people to make these things and sell them on CD. I don't think you need to have DAZ be the sole distributor.

[Naes3d]

Tutorials are definitely nice, when they are available for a reasonable price. Actually, I believe DAZ gives voucher money to people who submit tutorials on their site. So particularly talented Carrara users could actually pay for the upgrade just by sharing their skills.

Does this count as a plus on the DAZ|Carrara side?

[crazy wabbit]

I Love DAZ

[mykyl1966]

Sometimes having a look for tutorials for other 3d apps regarding shader creation can spark how to do it in Carrara. I don't recall what it was but I saw a tutorial on car paint for some other app and replicated it as much as possible in Carrara a year or so back. What holds me back as having Carrara as my only app is the slowness of rendering any of the modern stuff it has like GI or SSS or displacements. Those things were what kept me looking around for other apps. I think a lot of it has to do with not enough tutorials out there that go into depth regarding the render engine etc. I don't ever buy tutorials as those that I have bought in the past have been pathetic to say the least. It all gets me grumpy as Carrara is a fantastic application. Cheers Mike R

[Naes3d]

Honestly, I think that educating your user base is the most often overlooked aspect to successfully marketing an application. Max and Maya are not industry standards because they are necessarily the best applications out there. It's really the seeming neverending stream of talented users that make it appear so.

Most companies are using tutorials as a revenue stream. I have long been an advocate of seeing them as investments.

Take early childhood intervention statistics for example. They estimate that early childhood intervention programs generate a return to society ranging from $1.80 to $17.07 for each dollar spent on them. Imagine if this model could be applied to Carrara (and other 3D apps). The more skilled your users are at the early stages, the more prolific they will be.

Now comparing trueSpace to Carrara in this area (back on topic), as I stated above DAZ pays it's users to teach and the tutorials are available freely. That is a very good start and should be expanded upon. At Caligari, I don't think thay have ever gone into specifics, but they did say in response to being asked about the pricing of their tutorials that it was necessary to take into consideration that they pay the tutorial authors for their work and the cost of the tutorial is used to cover the expenses of producing it.

I think that Carrara wins on this note but they need to do more to take advantage of this leverage.

[Plum]

Hiya.

Well, I still think a company should make a manual and that manual should be the definitive info-holder to what the program can/can't do. Caligari's "Pro-Team" tutorials are WAY overpriced if you ask me. They should all be free. If they pay their tutorial makers, they should have worked out some kind of 'compensation' style payment...and not $$$. For example, I'd have set it up so that each tutorial contributor would get, say, $100 off their next tS update. If that update would be priced at $300, then if they write 3 tutorials, they basically get a free update to the next paid-for tS upgrade/date. This wouldn't "directly" cost them money, and it encourages them to keep doing it...and they have the latest up to date version to make more tutorials for.

I think the caligari tutorials shouldn't cost more than the fricken' program...

"basic" tutorials = $1367.00
"master" tutorials = $869.00

...Grand Total for all tutorials = $2236.00

So it's basically over $3000 to buy tS and learn how to use it via their tutorials. And this seems "ok" for some people? x2

[transient]

All twelve TS7 videos for $199

Caligari have specials like this all the time. I bought TS6.6 with raypak, ipak, flash plug-in and ten vids for $99. The tutorials were excellent btw.

I hope you don't do your own taxes.

[Naes3d]

The video that teaches you all of Carrara is only $99. Also, since it is a sale price, it kind of defeats the purposes of comparison. It wont be that price forever. Yes they have sales all the time but so does DAZ. They sold Hex for 1.99 and Bryce for $6. Those have beat any of the Caligari sales.

But, like I said lets compare the base products (and prices).

And c'mon, that last comment is just going to get our thread closed...

[crazy wabbit]

Why my poor topic, it is going ?

[Plum]

hehe...

No worries here...the Polyloop forums kinda remind me of the tS ones (and the Kenzer & Co. ones...that's a role-playing game company, btw, nothing to do with computers). We may not all agree on things, and we may have some rather heated discussions, but unless someone outright slams me and specifically uses my name...I know it's just passion for the discussion. We're all here because of our love for 3D. We're all "e-friends". Well, that's how I see it, anyway.

PS: transient; Funny you should say that; my wife and I just had our taxes done about 3 hours ago. We're getting back just over $2k. Mind you, most of it is already spent...but still. ;)

[transient]

@naes - It was a joke, that's all. There was no malice involved.

Imo Daz's fire sales were an interesting marketing ploy designed to boost Platinum subscriptions. I have no problem with this as I benefited by getting Hex for a song, which was my favorite modeling app until I got TS. Unfortunately Daz are primarily a content company, which really shows when you look at the lack of direct support for their 3d products.

Shade has the same problem.

@Plum - Maybe you can spare some of your tax return to buy those Caligari vids? By your cost analysis you'll be saving nearly $2000 on learning TS. Really though, there's plenty of free learning to be had on the forums. I've gone from noob to comfortable in less than three weeks, even with the dodgy manual (which is my only major issue with this app so far).

I think everyone would prefer free everything, however this isn't the world we live in. If any of you really want to learn TS I'm more than happy to help you here or there if you like, indefinitely. No charge.

One thing I'll say is that at least both these apps have video learning material available. Shade has nothing, and desperately needs it. I would pay for an advanced Callisto/shaders course without hesitating.

[Naes3d]

I haven't actually seen this 'lack of direct support' that people keep referring too when they mention DAZ. Funny. Perhaps you should define your terms. Whenever I have had a problem that required I contact DAZ (I think it was only twice), I was helped.

If by lack of direct support you mean they are not making bug fixes for version 5, then you may be right, as they are currently working on version 6. Caligari is the same way regarding making bug fixes to 6.6. Work on version 5 had to stop at some point. I've seen a lot of people claim the lack of support, but I havent seen any evidence of it. In fact, the opposite seems to be far more accurate as people have refused to support Carrara simply because it was purchased by DAZ.

I wouldn't count myself in the group of people who prefer free everything either. The whole point of my statement above was how a company can spend money to increase sales. The tutorials are available freely. The application is not.

Indeed, learning is available on forums for both applications. Being able to ask questions or just watch and learn are not unique features of either DAZ or Caligari, which is why I did not include forums in my comparisons. Besides that had been covered a few posts ago.

But, I do have a question you can help me with:

I have trueSpace 7.5 but I don't have VRay. I want to render an image that is going to be a close up of a hand (thinking about using Aiko for a quick comp) holding a gem between the thumb and index finger. The way the image is in my head, I would need to take advantage of SSS and caustics and I would also like this to be a multipass rendering for touch up in Photoshop. This project has a tight deadline, so I need it all done in a single workflow. How would you suggest?

[Naes3d]

Well, no answer to the above question, but more news:

The new update to trueSpace (7.51) includes

BVH import and export

Collada Export

Improved DX9 real time rendering

Improvements to the rigging tools. Speciffally a limb library that allows you to reuse existing rigging set ups or even pieces.

[Affuso]

speaking abou animation, what about Truespace vs Xsi?