Truespace users

[jbshorty]

Originally Posted by Frenchy Pilou

What is the adresses of the forum?
Thx by advance

http://news2.mcneel.com/scripts/dnew...er&group=rhino

[Frenchy Pilou]

thx: Bookmarked
it's not a classical forum of today but an old fashion like those of the beginning of the Net

[Marc]

If Truespace 7 was translated in french as TS 3.1, no probleme, I buy immediately this soft, because it is a true 3d software…Carrara is just a good little soft but with many missing things.

I have created some pictures with TS 3.1 and I was much liking to work with it.
http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imag...0/image01.html (Thierry is my second name)

http://www.caligari.com/gallery/imag...y00/index.html

[crazy wabbit]

Nice fishy, why you don't do one in carrara?

[Naes3d]

Carrara 5.1 and trueSpace 7.5 compare rather well, but the winner depends on your needs.

Carrara is better at certaain things, trueSpace at others. I here a lot of mention of VRay and I think it is fair to point out that VRay is not a standard feature of trueSpace 7.5. I was very vocal about my reservations concerning the way Caligari was marketing trueSpace. One of my major critiques was that VRay is not a feature of trueSpace. It is a plugin. The question that was asked was to compare Carrara to trueSpace. Some people are responding with comparisons of VRay to Carrara. It's like if I said that Carrara was better than trueSpace at animating because it can import animation from MotionBuilder (.fbx) and trueSpace can't.

Factor out VRay and Carrara wins IMO on producing better quality stills, but that is subjective. The realtime renderer is capable of very nice images without the wait time.

A big advantage Carrara has over trueSpace is that all of it's features are accessible through a single workflow. There are currently at least 5 different possible workflows in trueSpace.

trueSpace is definitely the application to watch out of the two, mainly because there isn't really any solid info about Carrara 6 to pin ones hopes on. From a philosophical point of view, there is something wrong with the idea that one may potentially have to wait til version 8 for version 7 to be finished.

[transient]

Carrara's workflow is the reason I didn't like it. The rooms philopsophy is like being forced to watch the wiggles. Of course this is just my opinion.

Motionbuilder is 4k. How could you say that Vray for TS (max price $300) is in any way a plug-in compared to that? Obviously you can't. I will concede that without Vray TS7.5 loses some of it's cool, but be real - your saving 500 bucks on the original product.

I think there's an element of sour grapes with Carrara, considering it is now owned by a content company with zero public feedback and few indications of it's immediate future.

Ultimately what app you prefer comes down to your personal preferance, and I think really either Carrara or TS (any flavour) is good enough if you are.

TS 7.5 isn't flawless, but really some of the comments directed towards it, particularly here for some reason, are a bit silly.

[crazy wabbit]

You know something, let me make it easier for you guys, as far as I am concerned neither carrara of ts is good enough for the times (year 2007).

[transient]

Is it 2007 already? Thanks for the heads up.

[Naes3d]

Transient, my point is that we shouldn't be comparing the plugins of the two apps at all. Carrara versus trueSpace. Not VRay versus Carrara or the price of VRay versus the price of some other plugins. So obviously I am attempting to not compare the plugins.

trueSpace is still a very capable app without including VRay features, but I think it is only fair to use the internal features when comparing them.

I also find it kind of funny that you don't like the workflow in Carrara when the workflow in trueSpace is now very similar. trueSpace now has a 2 room workflow going on (workSpace/model tabs). While it may go away when trueSpace is finished, I have read comments from people on the Caligari forum who have expressed sorrow that that workflow may disappear. Also, both programs adjust object info via a right side docking panel and a bottom docking timeline. There are other similarities.

And in fairness, DAZ does have public feedback. They just don't say much. Ringo comes into just about every Carrara forum in existence in order to assure people Carrara is still being worked on. Caligari is just as touchy about forward looking statements. People were just as frustrated with Caligari over lack of specifics. In fact, it was not uncommon for people to suggest tS users just sit back and wait to be pleasantly surprised.

But again tS and Carrara compare rather well, but your needs will determine which is the better app for you.

[ronjurman]

Originally Posted by behzad

Hi, With the release of Truespace 7.5, how do you think it compares to Carrara?

I bought Carrara when there was no Truespace 7.5, I am still very happy with my purchase. Do you think 7.5 is catching up with Carrara?

Somewhere along the years I came to the conclusion that virtually every 3D program has its own strengths and weaknesses (usually the more expensive the more strengths and fewer weaknesses, but not always), and many of those areas are highly subjective to one's work-style and current focus (which tends to vary from project to project), and I stopped asking which programs were 'better' or 'catching up' (unless it was in a very specific area, and often for a specific purpose). Rather, when I look at an alternate program, it is for what it 'adds' to my current toolkit. trueSpace and Carrara have been historically very complementary (although very different styles). I think that's still probably true.

For all that, it's rather hard to judge the current release of trueSpace at this point, as Caligari has hit the point where they are virtually rearchitecting the program from the core up, something that happens to virtually every major 3D application at some age, and what they are currently offering as a transition is kind of a hybrid (the entire previous version, plus new/replacement tools built on a completely new framework). When the previous version can be dropped away, they may have a very interesting product. It's actually pretty interesting already, but only time will tell.

But remember, all 3D programs are only tools in your 3D toolkit. Think of them that way, and realize that your 'real' aim is to have the 3D toolkit that best fits your style and needs (for your budget).

rj

[transient]

I also find it kind of funny that you don't like the workflow in Carrara when the workflow in trueSpace is now very similar. trueSpace now has a 2 room workflow going on (workSpace/model tabs).

You don't need to use model tab, unless you want access to legacy features. TS 7.5 is nothing like Carrara as everything is modal, and the interface is totally customisable. Even the model room (which you don't absolutely need) has a bridge to the workspace which works in realtime.

You are entitled to your opinions about TS's interface, but this comment was a bit mischievous. It will be interesting whether Carrara keeps the rooms thing in it's next release, or adopts are more flexible approach. Maybe if it changes I'll have another look at it.

And in fairness, DAZ does have public feedback. They just don't say much. Ringo comes into just about every Carrara forum in existence in order to assure people Carrara is still being worked on.

The truespace forums often have dev's answering technical questions. Roman has a blog which provides a decent roadmap for the future, although as you suggest maybe not enough for pickier users. You can't compare their support with daz's, where Ringo basically does what he can with little thanks most of the time. TS users are also amazingly helpful, and knowledgable. It's like having an on-line classroom.

Shade, which is currently my other favourite 3d app, would be far more usable if it had this kind of backup although Shade users are also really good. Keep in mind that us poor Shade users still haven't had an announcement on Shade 9 even though it was released in Japan six months ago.

I think if Caligari are touchy (not something I've noticed) maybe it's because of the incessant sniping by a minority of it's users over the years.

In fairness to all these companies, they are businesses in an extremely competitive arena, and would be under a lot of pressure to keep secrets that involve their bottom line.

@Ron Jourman - You are wise, but I think it's pretty easy to judge TS 7.5 right now, if you've actually taken the time to use it. I've been going hard for two weeks and I haven't even scratched the surface. It's great fun.

[Naes3d]

Well, I am not trying to make this a trueSpace versus Carrara war, as I do use both programs. We could have a philosophical argument over how a pen is nothing like a pencil but it would be of no use.

Most of your responses to things that I have said seem to be from an interpretation of what you think I mean rather than the context in which I am saying it.

I don't see where anything in that quote from me can be construed as mischievous (which I think is a pretty harsh and disproportionate term to use when we are just talking about a 3D app). If you go back and look at the way you refer to the program, you will see that you have given a lot more virulent evaluation of Carrara than I gave to trueSpace in this thread.

I have said this before a number of times as it was said to me:

The music is not in the piano.

Regardless of which program you use, it will be your ability to execute your vision that makes great art. Nothing more.


The most important thing that a company can do to help the artist execute his vision is to ensure their product performs as advertised. Caligari is doing a very good job of making trueSpace a program that performs as advertised, but there are still areas that need fine tuning and others that still need constructing. That isn't a slight against the company, it is a real issue that someone giving an honest evaluation to a consumer should mention.

Over on the Caligari forums, a new user got stuck following a nurbs tutorial and I helped out. I'd do the same thing for anyone here who was trying out the demo (as I am sure you would do). So for anyone who really wants to compare the two, download the demo of tS and/or Carrara and post some questions in a thread.

Someone will have an answer...

[transient]

Most of your responses to things that I have said seem to be from an interpretation of what you think I mean rather than the context in which I am saying it.

Umm... I've been quoting you verbatim. However, if you feel I've twisted your words in any way I humbly apologise. And I wasn't using the word mischievous to cast aspersions on your character, I just thought you were drawing a long bow comparing Carrara's rooms to TS's bridge.

You've made some good points in this thread, I've only commented on the things I didn't fully agree with. If I thought you were just bashing TS (or Carrara) I would have ignored it.
Peace

[crazy wabbit]

Oh MY GOD




No one is flaming you, just relax. Can I see some of your work done in either application?

[transient]

[Sketchy]

Interesting discussion. This is what makes 3d forums come alive besides the WIPs section. You could feel the passion. Noobs must be green with envy. I can't say anything about TS's latest release at the moment. I downloaded the trial version and it didn't work on my PC which I still haven't upgraded yet. That's ok. There's too much stuff in my hands to cover right now. Ronjurman had said what I wanted to say. I gave up comparing 3d apps. You will always find weaknesses as well as strenghts. We'll just have to welcome new tools. It doesn't matter which developer made them. In the end we, the users, will be the final winners. The bar just gets higher and higher. It may not drive the prices down, but it doesn't get any higher either. Many times we only use a small percentage of the app. Caligari obviously made a great effort to improve TS. They should be lauded for it. For now I'll be waiting for DAZ's answer to all the new features that are coming out whether in TS, Modo, etc. via C6. Keep up the discussion, though I'm not sure it would last without the fear of being censored. I find DAZ forums more tolerant these days. It's not a good feeling to be censored. Freedom of speech is a basic right. Forefathers of many nations shed blood because of it. To many, it's more important that food.

It's not bad to criticize 3d apps as long as you cite a specific feature.

[Naes3d]

Actually bezhad, I am not accusing anyone of flaming. I am saying that a verbatim quote doesn't necessarilly capture meaning. Just because two things have differences does not mean any similarities are nullified. If you want to see some stuff I did, there are a couple of threads here for you to look for.

[crazy wabbit]

I just like peaceful debate, and also it is good to see some work from eachother and talk about how we can improve them, thats all. I am not pointing fingures at anyone. Debate is good, did you know that from the clash of opinions comes out the truth.

[transient]

I agree.

I didin't really see much passion here as such although the thread was a bit lively and philosophical which is generally a good thing. I think if things had been getting out of hand a mod would get involved.

I took offence to Behzad but it was a misunderstanding on my part (sorry mate).

[crazy wabbit]

Originally Posted by transient

I took offence to Behzad but it was a misunderstanding on my part (sorry mate).

I never meant any insult.