first test of Archipelis designer - Polyloop

jbshorty · 9th February 2007, 18:29

So, here is my first test of the Archipelis Designer 1.1 demo. I spent only 10 minutes using the program, with only 1 minute reading the help documentation. Very fun and promising app for roughing out a textured volume very quickly... Me likes very much

!!!

shorty

jbshorty · 9th February 2007, 20:14

Demo does not allow export or saving models, so i had to let go of my rhino. fly away rhino

... after playing around with this demo a bit more, it does in fact seem very useful to construct volumes. Would be great in future versions if more transform/deform options will be made available. but overall i think it's a nicely designed application...

jbshorty · 9th February 2007, 21:19

Here is another one. He is a "Buffalo Man" but the demo allows only to use the rhino texture image. So it looks kind of wonky. But it only took less than one minute to build this mesh

. I am really having fun with this program today...

jbshorty · 9th February 2007, 23:21

it's a duck...

wibble · 16th February 2007, 05:48

Looks fun!

I don't think it could be beat when it comes to giving the user the ability to create a model rapidly.

It could be great when combined with something like SharpConstruct or Mudbox.

The bad:

It reminds me of CB Model Pro in that it gives the user the ability to create models quickly. Yet you're left with this really dense mesh that can't be put to much use after.

Although unlike CB Model Pro's homebrewed pleasant interface, Archipelis' interface looks and feels like something from my Commodore 64 days. Not good!

Still, I'm definitely going to test it out some more.

jbshorty · 16th February 2007, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wibble

...It reminds me of CB Model Pro in that it gives the user the ability to create models quickly. Yet you're left with this really dense mesh that can't be put to much use after...

I totally forgot about CB Pro, hadn't tried that one yet... Of course these programs are all meta-modelers, famous for their crappy mesh quality. But often I just need a rough volume to use as support to build a new object in Silo Modo or Rhino. That's how i'm thinking it could be practical. And also could be used quick background objects when you don't care so much about the mesh quality...

wibble · 17th February 2007, 22:03

My first model with Archipelis!

Where else can you make a textured shark in under ten minutes?

jbshorty · 18th February 2007, 01:11

Nice! I guess you bought the liscense? How is the quality of the mesh export? Would you mind posting a screenshot of the wireframe?

Thanks!
shorty

wibble · 18th February 2007, 02:41

Object exported and viewed in SharpConstruct:

As you can see. The mesh around the pectoral fin is pretty nasty. When textured you don't notice the poor mesh quality as much. I wonder if the guys at Archipelis are being a little naughty and deliberately trying to hide the mesh quality by preventing people from seeing the object in other modes, when in the demo version?.

In the full version you can view an object as a wireframe model. Also, the mesh quality is only poor around the thin areas. So if your object is very bulbous (like a rhino) then you should have no problems at all.

Wireframe:

Before exporting, I set the detail one level higher than the default detail level.

jbshorty · 18th February 2007, 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wibble

...I wonder if the guys at Archipelis are being a little naughty and deliberately trying to hide the mesh quality by preventing people from seeing the object in other modes, when in the demo version?....

that's what i suspected myself...

jbshorty · 18th February 2007, 20:43

Hi Wibble. I saw your related archipelis "blob" request in the Moi forum, but didn't want to mention Rhino there (although Michael is usually cool about it). You don't happen to us Rhino, do you? Because I have written macro commands that do exactly what you are asking for. I even call it "blob" and the icon is a little one-eyed blob

. I have 3 versions:

**by interpolated curve (curve through points)
**by freehand sketching a curve
**using existing curve

It makes 2 blob halves, then mirrors them, then joins into a solid. It also sets up the filleting of the joined edge and sets up the scaling for thickness. It is really neat to play with. And yes, it saves A LOT of time building volumes. Of course, it is Nurbs surfacing so you can't make really exaggerated forms. But it works great for shapes like kidney beans, eggplants, etc. If you have Rhino, I would be happy to post the macros for you to try them...

shorty

wibble · 18th February 2007, 23:02

Ha! Small (3D?) world eh?

That's really nice of you to offer to give your macros to me. But me and Rhino had a slight disagreement over fillets one day and we've not bothered with eachother since.

Michael's tip will probably help alot and I'll see how I go with that. I so love that interface in MoI.

But thanks, Shorty!

jbshorty · 19th February 2007, 18:56

Yeah, it's even smaller than you think. I'm glad i'm small too. more leg room when i travel... I actually wrote my blob macros a few months ago. But it used a "patch" system. And now i feel so stupid that i didn't think to write them using sweeps (although that's how i was making blobs manually in the past). So now i've rewritten them and they are SWEET!!! Sketch a curve, mark the ends of blob and define the profile, adjust sweep parameters if necessary, and the blob is done. All in about 6 clicks...

Here's the rhino made with my "blob" macros in Rhino 4. All filleted and ready to go (wherever it is that rhino's go)...

shorty

jbshorty · 19th February 2007, 18:59

...and a wireframe of the Nurbs rhino...

shorty

wibble · 19th February 2007, 19:57

Great rhino, Shorty! I see some nice filleting there too. Maybe Rhino3D is a little biased and puts more effort into creating fillets for its own kind?

I think there's definitely a need for a nurbs modeler that works around the idea of blobs. Especially for the folk who are new to 3D modelling. It's not really obvious how to build using the current nurbs modelers. I think the blob approach makes it all much more obvious.

It's only because of Archipelis that I realized how I should approach the problem of modelling organic forms using nurbs.

jbshorty · 19th February 2007, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by wibble

...Maybe Rhino3D is a little biased and puts more effort into creating fillets for its own kind?

...

Of course! It's the instinct of self-preservation (combined with R4's variable fillets and auto-chaining)

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wibble

...I think there's definitely a need for a nurbs modeler that works around the idea of blobs. ...

...I always thought so too. But the two technologies aren't natural mates. I did recently see a video of Truespace doing something like a Nurbs meta-blob! You should check it out, if you're really into that concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wibble

...It's only because of Archipelis that I realized how I should approach the problem of modelling organic forms using nurbs.

..Maybe send them a "thank you" note? Would they appreciate that, i wonder?

jbshorty · 19th February 2007, 21:28

a textured screenshot of nurbs rhino, using archipelis texture...

Affuso · 20th February 2007, 17:55

MMMMMMM why just one damn image? The tool looks funny (for static background meshes) , it bother me only that I have to make a paypal account.

Affuso · 20th February 2007, 19:17

I need a courtesy before to decide the purchase.
may some one send my a mesh made with A. ?
I had to see if I can use it in the game engine and/or with Sharpconstruct.

jbshorty · 20th February 2007, 21:00

sorry buddy. i can't send you a mesh because i don't have liscense for this program. But my feeling is that meta-modelers are BAD for game designers. In order to get a reasonably decent looking surface, you must use very high-poly mesh. the best method for game design is really to work with polygons directly. So you can control the usage of polygons where needed, and not waste them where not needed... I don't think Archipelis is good for your needs... Better to use polymodeler like Hexagon, Silo, Wings...

shorty

9th February 2007, 18:29	#1 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	first test of Archipelis designer So, here is my first test of the Archipelis Designer 1.1 demo. I spent only 10 minutes using the program, with only 1 minute reading the help documentation. Very fun and promising app for roughing out a textured volume very quickly... Me likes very much !!! shorty Attached Thumbnails

9th February 2007, 20:14	#2 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	Demo does not allow export or saving models, so i had to let go of my rhino. fly away rhino ... after playing around with this demo a bit more, it does in fact seem very useful to construct volumes. Would be great in future versions if more transform/deform options will be made available. but overall i think it's a nicely designed application... Attached Thumbnails

9th February 2007, 21:19	#3 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	Here is another one. He is a "Buffalo Man" but the demo allows only to use the rhino texture image. So it looks kind of wonky. But it only took less than one minute to build this mesh . I am really having fun with this program today... Attached Thumbnails

9th February 2007, 23:21	#4 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	it's a duck... Attached Thumbnails

19th February 2007, 18:56	#13 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	Yeah, it's even smaller than you think. I'm glad i'm small too. more leg room when i travel... I actually wrote my blob macros a few months ago. But it used a "patch" system. And now i feel so stupid that i didn't think to write them using sweeps (although that's how i was making blobs manually in the past). So now i've rewritten them and they are SWEET!!! Sketch a curve, mark the ends of blob and define the profile, adjust sweep parameters if necessary, and the blob is done. All in about 6 clicks... Here's the rhino made with my "blob" macros in Rhino 4. All filleted and ready to go (wherever it is that rhino's go)... shorty Attached Thumbnails

16th February 2007, 05:48	#5 (permalink)
wibble Spline Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 35 My Photos: (1)	Looks fun! I don't think it could be beat when it comes to giving the user the ability to create a model rapidly. It could be great when combined with something like SharpConstruct or Mudbox. The bad: It reminds me of CB Model Pro in that it gives the user the ability to create models quickly. Yet you're left with this really dense mesh that can't be put to much use after. Although unlike CB Model Pro's homebrewed pleasant interface, Archipelis' interface looks and feels like something from my Commodore 64 days. Not good! Still, I'm definitely going to test it out some more.

17th February 2007, 22:03	#7 (permalink)
wibble Spline Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 35 My Photos: (1)	My first model with Archipelis! Where else can you make a textured shark in under ten minutes?

18th February 2007, 01:11	#8 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	Nice! I guess you bought the liscense? How is the quality of the mesh export? Would you mind posting a screenshot of the wireframe? Thanks! shorty

18th February 2007, 02:41	#9 (permalink)
wibble Spline Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 35 My Photos: (1)	Object exported and viewed in SharpConstruct: As you can see. The mesh around the pectoral fin is pretty nasty. When textured you don't notice the poor mesh quality as much. I wonder if the guys at Archipelis are being a little naughty and deliberately trying to hide the mesh quality by preventing people from seeing the object in other modes, when in the demo version?. In the full version you can view an object as a wireframe model. Also, the mesh quality is only poor around the thin areas. So if your object is very bulbous (like a rhino) then you should have no problems at all. Wireframe: Before exporting, I set the detail one level higher than the default detail level.

18th February 2007, 20:43	#11 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	Hi Wibble. I saw your related archipelis "blob" request in the Moi forum, but didn't want to mention Rhino there (although Michael is usually cool about it). You don't happen to us Rhino, do you? Because I have written macro commands that do exactly what you are asking for. I even call it "blob" and the icon is a little one-eyed blob . I have 3 versions: by interpolated curve (curve through points) by freehand sketching a curve **using existing curve It makes 2 blob halves, then mirrors them, then joins into a solid. It also sets up the filleting of the joined edge and sets up the scaling for thickness. It is really neat to play with. And yes, it saves A LOT of time building volumes. Of course, it is Nurbs surfacing so you can't make really exaggerated forms. But it works great for shapes like kidney beans, eggplants, etc. If you have Rhino, I would be happy to post the macros for you to try them... shorty

18th February 2007, 23:02	#12 (permalink)
wibble Spline Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 35 My Photos: (1)	Ha! Small (3D?) world eh? That's really nice of you to offer to give your macros to me. But me and Rhino had a slight disagreement over fillets one day and we've not bothered with eachother since. Michael's tip will probably help alot and I'll see how I go with that. I so love that interface in MoI. But thanks, Shorty!

19th February 2007, 18:59	#14 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	...and a wireframe of the Nurbs rhino... shorty Attached Thumbnails

19th February 2007, 19:57	#15 (permalink)
wibble Spline Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 35 My Photos: (1)	Great rhino, Shorty! I see some nice filleting there too. Maybe Rhino3D is a little biased and puts more effort into creating fillets for its own kind? I think there's definitely a need for a nurbs modeler that works around the idea of blobs. Especially for the folk who are new to 3D modelling. It's not really obvious how to build using the current nurbs modelers. I think the blob approach makes it all much more obvious. It's only because of Archipelis that I realized how I should approach the problem of modelling organic forms using nurbs.

19th February 2007, 21:28	#17 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	a textured screenshot of nurbs rhino, using archipelis texture... Attached Thumbnails

20th February 2007, 17:55	#18 (permalink)
Affuso Extrusion Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 169 My Photos: (0)	MMMMMMM why just one damn image? The tool looks funny (for static background meshes) , it bother me only that I have to make a paypal account.

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20th February 2007, 19:17	#19 (permalink)
Affuso Extrusion Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 169 My Photos: (0)	I need a courtesy before to decide the purchase. may some one send my a mesh made with A. ? I had to see if I can use it in the game engine and/or with Sharpconstruct.

20th February 2007, 21:00	#20 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	sorry buddy. i can't send you a mesh because i don't have liscense for this program. But my feeling is that meta-modelers are BAD for game designers. In order to get a reasonably decent looking surface, you must use very high-poly mesh. the best method for game design is really to work with polygons directly. So you can control the usage of polygons where needed, and not waste them where not needed... I don't think Archipelis is good for your needs... Better to use polymodeler like Hexagon, Silo, Wings... shorty