Modo Rendering Challenge. - Page 3 - Polyloop

Nichod · 9th August 2006, 18:24

The shadow banding is probally occuring because you are reaching unrealistic levels. Carrara is geared towards lighting realism. In reality a distant light at the distance you likely have it at would not create as soft shadows as you are attempting. And it creates a very unrealistic shadow as a result. Try using a different light source and more realistic settings to achieve the result you are aiming for.

Personally I rarely use distant lights except if I need a fill light for a whole scene.

LoneGunman · 9th August 2006, 21:52

One point light source (bulb). Banding itself differs. It is visible more on a flat surfaces which are closing smaller angles with light rays (top of the image) with range fall-off turned on and larger renders.

Sphere should have it minimized, cuz it's a curved surface, notice banding on the floor and shadow below the sphere.

Rendered example has just a tad increased contrast. Histogram also shows curve which is most unusual. That suggests discrete levels in my opinion

Discrete levels are usualy sign of not having enough samples.

Why I'm doing all of this ? I'm exploring posibility to suggest to Carrara developers to improve Carrara's raytracing abilities even more then where are they now. That is why I need confirmation from other users to see that I'm not making some obvious mistake somewhere. If I am, than my bad

Here is the link to article about Distributed Ray Tracing which explains how to eliminate this or minimize it (Bryce5 is using this tehnique and it can actually send up to 256 rays per one pixel, it would be nice to have this level of control):

DRT

Example file is below (Shadows.zip is Carrara file):

Nichod · 10th August 2006, 04:43

My comment was from a response I receive from the developers on just this sort of issue. Personally I agree that there are banding issues. I'll submit this in a bug report and see if I get a response.

vagula2002 · 10th August 2006, 22:05

Hi to all,

I'm joining the challenge and left blurry reflections on in my render.
It's stamping for 12 hours now and it did not even complete 2 tiles.

Now I'm willing to complete this render just to see how long it would take Carrara. I don't know if my patience will survive but I'll try.

I'll update the picture daily.

Here are some of my settings.

Material
Reflection on objects 5%
Fresnel Term: 100%
Blurry reflections: on, and 10% blur
Maximum ray depth: 1
Maximum Attenuation: 70%

Render
AntiAliasing: Good
Object Accuracy: 1 pixel
Shadow Accuracy: 1 pixel
Filter Sharpness: 75%
Maximum Ray Depth: 4

Sky Light: 50%
Indirect Light: 100% (Full Indirect lighting, no Ambient Occlusion Only)
Interpolation: off
Photon Count: 1000
Photon Map accuracy: 75%
Lighting Quality: Good
Accuracy: 2 pixels

Update,

Picture after 56 hours.

But I'm pulling the plug now! I let my system cool down for a moment and play some WOW.

I will do a render without blurry reflections and never use them again.

Pete Exxtreme · 10th August 2006, 22:55

nice 2 squares....

crazy wabbit · 10th August 2006, 23:00

wATS THAT, Niceee , I like

Reactor · 11th August 2006, 18:56

LOL vagula2002. I'll be watching with eager anticipation ;)

I had a look at the shadow banding and... hmmm. I'd like to hear what the Carrara crew have to say about it.

vagula2002 · 12th August 2006, 09:58

Update after 56 hours on page 3.

Pete Exxtreme · 12th August 2006, 11:02

yeah : i know what it is : a CPU burning contest !!!

vagula2002 · 12th August 2006, 11:58

Yes it is! Look at the stats!

vagula2002 · 12th August 2006, 20:25

Okay I did a render without blurry reflections.
It took my machine 2 hours and 25 minutes.

C U

Nichod · 12th August 2006, 23:34

Keep in mind that in this scene, EVERYTHING has blurry reflections. Thats what is killing it.

crazy wabbit · 13th August 2006, 05:18

[quote=vagula2002]Okay I did a render without blurry reflections.
It took my machine 2 hours and 25 minutes.

Is that carrara? WOW is it? nIceee

vagula2002 · 13th August 2006, 10:05

Yes it is Carrara Behzad. I used the same settings as the render I killed after 56 hours except no blurry reflections.

Not sure what you mean Nichod, but I blame Carrara for the problem and not the fact I want to use blurry reflections in the whole scene.

Patrick210 · 13th August 2006, 16:20

We all know Carrara has very, very, slow blurry reflections. What Brian is saying is that with all the objects in the scene it really slows down, as opposed to say, if just the spheres had it.

Nichod · 14th August 2006, 00:38

Quote:

We all know Carrara has very, very, slow blurry reflections.

Yep.

Quote:

What Brian is saying is that with all the objects in the scene it really slows down, as opposed to say, if just the spheres had it.

Yep!

Lets all cross our fingers for C6. Right now though its fairly easy to fake blurry reflections as well. Just place a little noise in the reflection channel.

vagula2002 · 16th August 2006, 22:32

I did a render with just the spheres having blurry reflections. The effect is very subtle but I'm not starting over.

44 hours and 47 seconds.

Inspireology · 18th August 2006, 14:04

I am really worried about Carrara 6, Daz made their announcements for Bryce 6, and it it is a prettly lame update to say the least, that is after so much time to work on it

Nichod · 18th August 2006, 14:43

Quote:

I am really worried about Carrara 6, Daz made their announcements for Bryce 6, and it it is a prettly lame update to say the least, that is after so much time to work on it

I wouldn't be. Carrara and Bryce are two different beasts. Carrara has clean and well documented code. (just look at the SDK) While Bryce has been a struggle to debug the code and get it to a point where features can be added easily. Plus Bryce is not programmed by Charles and Co. So you are looking at two different development teams. Don't judge too early

Also, being on the beta I can assure you, that you will be MORE than happy.

jbshorty · 18th August 2006, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichod

Also, being on the beta I can assure you, that you will be MORE than happy.

you beta testers have all the fun...

9th August 2006, 18:24	#41 (permalink)
Nichod Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 612	The shadow banding is probally occuring because you are reaching unrealistic levels. Carrara is geared towards lighting realism. In reality a distant light at the distance you likely have it at would not create as soft shadows as you are attempting. And it creates a very unrealistic shadow as a result. Try using a different light source and more realistic settings to achieve the result you are aiming for. Personally I rarely use distant lights except if I need a fill light for a whole scene. __________________ Email Me. Visit my blog! Get hundreds of shader presets! Get Art of Shaders! And a preview for Art of Skin is now available. AMD Turion(TM) 64 ML-40 (2.2GHz/1MB L2 Cache) 1280 MB DDR 333mHz RAM 128MB ATI RADEON(R) XPRESS 200M w/Hypermemory(TM) 60 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive DVD+/-RW/R & CD-RW Combo w/Double Layer Support 15.4" WXGA BrightView Widescreen (1280x800) I use.

10th August 2006, 04:43	#43 (permalink)
Nichod Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 612	My comment was from a response I receive from the developers on just this sort of issue. Personally I agree that there are banding issues. I'll submit this in a bug report and see if I get a response. __________________ Email Me. Visit my blog! Get hundreds of shader presets! Get Art of Shaders! And a preview for Art of Skin is now available. AMD Turion(TM) 64 ML-40 (2.2GHz/1MB L2 Cache) 1280 MB DDR 333mHz RAM 128MB ATI RADEON(R) XPRESS 200M w/Hypermemory(TM) 60 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive DVD+/-RW/R & CD-RW Combo w/Double Layer Support 15.4" WXGA BrightView Widescreen (1280x800) I use.

10th August 2006, 22:05	#44 (permalink)
vagula2002 Worst Case Scenario Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 123	Joining the challenge Hi to all, I'm joining the challenge and left blurry reflections on in my render. It's stamping for 12 hours now and it did not even complete 2 tiles. Now I'm willing to complete this render just to see how long it would take Carrara. I don't know if my patience will survive but I'll try. I'll update the picture daily. Here are some of my settings. Material Reflection on objects 5% Fresnel Term: 100% Blurry reflections: on, and 10% blur Maximum ray depth: 1 Maximum Attenuation: 70% Render AntiAliasing: Good Object Accuracy: 1 pixel Shadow Accuracy: 1 pixel Filter Sharpness: 75% Maximum Ray Depth: 4 Sky Light: 50% Indirect Light: 100% (Full Indirect lighting, no Ambient Occlusion Only) Interpolation: off Photon Count: 1000 Photon Map accuracy: 75% Lighting Quality: Good Accuracy: 2 pixels Update, Picture after 56 hours. But I'm pulling the plug now! I let my system cool down for a moment and play some WOW. I will do a render without blurry reflections and never use them again. Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.gorehoundinc.com/ EXPLICIT

10th August 2006, 22:55	#45 (permalink)
Pete Exxtreme Lick it up Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Thonon/France Posts: 4,635	nice 2 squares.... __________________ Toute faute de frappe ou erreur de syntaxe sont dues a un clavier rebelle à toute forme d'autorité. LightWave 9 \| Hexagon 2 My gallery

12th August 2006, 09:58	#48 (permalink)
vagula2002 Worst Case Scenario Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 123	Update after 56 hours on page 3. __________________ http://www.gorehoundinc.com/ EXPLICIT

10th August 2006, 23:00	#46 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	wATS THAT, Niceee , I like

11th August 2006, 18:56	#47 (permalink)
Reactor NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 117	LOL vagula2002. I'll be watching with eager anticipation ;) I had a look at the shadow banding and... hmmm. I'd like to hear what the Carrara crew have to say about it.

12th August 2006, 11:02	#49 (permalink)
Pete Exxtreme Lick it up Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Thonon/France Posts: 4,635	yeah : i know what it is : a CPU burning contest !!! __________________ Toute faute de frappe ou erreur de syntaxe sont dues a un clavier rebelle à toute forme d'autorité. LightWave 9 \| Hexagon 2 My gallery

12th August 2006, 11:58	#50 (permalink)
vagula2002 Worst Case Scenario Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 123	Yes it is! Look at the stats! Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.gorehoundinc.com/ EXPLICIT

12th August 2006, 20:25	#51 (permalink)
vagula2002 Worst Case Scenario Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 123	Okay I did a render without blurry reflections. It took my machine 2 hours and 25 minutes. C U Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.gorehoundinc.com/ EXPLICIT

12th August 2006, 23:34	#52 (permalink)
Nichod Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 612	Keep in mind that in this scene, EVERYTHING has blurry reflections. Thats what is killing it. __________________ Email Me. Visit my blog! Get hundreds of shader presets! Get Art of Shaders! And a preview for Art of Skin is now available. AMD Turion(TM) 64 ML-40 (2.2GHz/1MB L2 Cache) 1280 MB DDR 333mHz RAM 128MB ATI RADEON(R) XPRESS 200M w/Hypermemory(TM) 60 GB 4200 RPM Hard Drive DVD+/-RW/R & CD-RW Combo w/Double Layer Support 15.4" WXGA BrightView Widescreen (1280x800) I use.

13th August 2006, 05:18	#53 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	[quote=vagula2002]Okay I did a render without blurry reflections. It took my machine 2 hours and 25 minutes. Is that carrara? WOW is it? nIceee

13th August 2006, 10:05	#54 (permalink)
vagula2002 Worst Case Scenario Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 123	Yes it is Carrara Behzad. I used the same settings as the render I killed after 56 hours except no blurry reflections. Not sure what you mean Nichod, but I blame Carrara for the problem and not the fact I want to use blurry reflections in the whole scene. __________________ http://www.gorehoundinc.com/ EXPLICIT

13th August 2006, 16:20	#55 (permalink)
Patrick210 Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 549	We all know Carrara has very, very, slow blurry reflections. What Brian is saying is that with all the objects in the scene it really slows down, as opposed to say, if just the spheres had it.

16th August 2006, 22:32	#57 (permalink)
vagula2002 Worst Case Scenario Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 123	I did a render with just the spheres having blurry reflections. The effect is very subtle but I'm not starting over. 44 hours and 47 seconds. Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://www.gorehoundinc.com/ EXPLICIT

18th August 2006, 14:04	#58 (permalink)
Inspireology Spline Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 38	I am really worried about Carrara 6, Daz made their announcements for Bryce 6, and it it is a prettly lame update to say the least, that is after so much time to work on it

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