5.0.4 new bug: Morphs dropping out (failing) on poser native import - Polyloop

arcady · 10th February 2006, 07:13

Compare the two images.

On the left in the first image is Poser, and on the right Carrara.

The file is a .pzz, and all of the morph dials are dropping out to zero when imported.

This problem is -NEW- to 5.0.4.

I know that because of the second image. This time on the left is a new import into Carrara. On the right is the same content, back in late January, when I imported it and rendered it in Carrara. The final version of that January render is here.

Both now, and back then, Poser Magnets are being lost on import. But now, morph dial settings are -also- being lost.

bwtr · 10th February 2006, 09:28

You look as though you are not even looking at Test Renderer results in the Assembly Room. How are your results when all is set, appropriately for Poser stuff, and you do a render in the Render Room?

arcady · 10th February 2006, 09:38

This is not a rendering issue. The shape of the mesh is lost. Morphs are not a rendering issue. Nor are magnets. They move vertexes.

Carrara is importing with the vertexes in the positions set by the .obj file, offset by bones - and not the way they are relocated in Poser and saved into the .pzz

Prior to 5.0.4 it imported morphs properly, but still failed on magnets.

So all that said, of course, when I render, I get a render based the mesh in Carrara and not the mesh in Poser - and this render is missing the effects of morph dial settings and magnets.

Morphing is vertex moving, not render setting, shader trickery, etc. The images I have posted for what is present in Carrara should not even be possible to get - tehcnically, they do no exist in the .pzz file. They exist only in the .obj files before those files were brought into poser and reshaped.

To avoid issue, attached is the figure rendered in Poser, then in Carrara, and the settings I use for import.

Thomas · 10th February 2006, 14:09

You have the same with the native import and Transposer 2 ?

arcady · 11th February 2006, 01:18

I only have native. Don't have the transposer plugin.

PierreE · 11th February 2006, 02:02

Hello,

Poser magnets are not supported by the native importer.

Concerning the morph issues, is it working if you create a simple scene in Poser ? I have tryied to reproduce the problem in Carrara 5.0.4, but it seems to work. I have used Poser figures (James...) as well as some others (Aiko for instance). I have been able to import the morph targets with the correct values.

If you have a file to reproduce the problem, don't hesitate to contact me directly.

Pierre
pierre@eovia.com

arcady · 11th February 2006, 02:56

The above scenes are fairly simple.

Aiko 3 and Vicky 3, with face morph dials and body morph dials at non zero positions. Both figures are also clothed and with props.

Are you testing on a copy of Carrara regular, without transposer installed?

PierreE · 11th February 2006, 03:18

Try to see if this is working or not: make a scene with only James in Poser in default pose, just tweak some morph dials save it and import it into Carrara.

arcady · 11th February 2006, 03:26

I don't have the James figure. I think he comes with Poser 6, and I am on Poser 5.

Remember the Aiko one I sent that was based on free content:

Quote:

Daz3d Aiko 3...

Take the Sorceress and the Renaissance dresses from here:
http://www.eldritch.se/poser/Renaissances_BallRoom/
http://www.eldritch.se/poser/Sorceress_Castle/

Put together a combo like my screenshot, and then import into carrara.

Renaissance Hair and SleevesShort
Sorceress Tabard, Leggings, and HighColar

Take that figure, and give her elf ears and an open mouth.

She loses them on Carrara import.

I have noticed that it is no longer asking me what directory different items that are in different runtimes are in, and I have 4 poser runtime folders - less than most people.

PierreE · 11th February 2006, 03:34

Could you send me the pzz file you have problem with ? I can try to make a similar setup to your example, but everything that I am trying is working. Their might be something special in your file...

If you have Poser 5, try to make the scene I described before but with "Don Casual". I would like to know if the morph targets are never working for you or just on special scenes.

One other thing, are you on Mac or Windows ?

Thanks.

bwtr · 11th February 2006, 03:40

Arcady I am curious. Why would anyone have more than the one Runtime folder? At the very worst, I would think you would have some in Runtime and others in Downloads/Runtime?
As a second query, does Aiko come in two versions, the full and the low.? Could this be some of the problem?

arcady · 11th February 2006, 03:46

Lacking James, I took Poser 5's Nude Don, applied a few build in morphs and posed, then imported.

Results below. He lost his morphs.

100% of his content is in the default Poser 5 runtime folder.

********************
This is -NOT- an Aiko problem. It is just that one of the tests I did was with Aiko and I mentioned her over and over because she and all the items I used for her were available for free. I've now seen the problem with Aiko, V3, and Don. I use the default versions of these figures.

********************
Prior to the 5.0.3 update, I did not have this problem, as these images prove:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28363856/ - morphed v3 (free figure)
http://www.deviantart.com/view/28168987/ - morphed v3 (free figure)
http://www.deviantart.com/view/28169120/ - morphed furrete (free figure)

I do not know if it started in 5.0.3 or 5.0.4 because the problem of parented objects being deformed was so severe that I simply stepped away from using Carrara for Poser importing during that time.

********************
********************

I keep runtimes for new items, Items I am making / testing, items I had from Poser 4 and before, and the default Poser 5 runtime untouched.

On the poser forums, you will find people who seperate out runtimed by figure, poser version, where it is backed up in their backups, and so on.

Before Poser 5, people were making custom apps to let them switch runtimes because the amount of content was simply too vast to manage any other way...

arcady · 11th February 2006, 04:50

Just in case I had a bad install, I uninstalled Carrara and then reinstalled from my CD.

In 5.0.1 Don's morphs imported fine.

I then updated to 5.0.4 using a copy of the update I downloaded only a few minutes beforehand.

This time Don lost his morphs on import.

Was hoping I had a bad install... But it doesn't look like it now.

bwtr · 11th February 2006, 04:56

Well done--if you ensure info given to Charles.

bwtr · 11th February 2006, 09:24

I had the same problem (via Poser5) when importing to C5 by Native. Ok (see attached) via Transposer2.

12th February 2006, 05:54

For the ones that do not know Pierre. He is the one that did the Poser stuff in C5 and transposer so he is his the one to talk to.
There are a few issues that arise when using Poser imports cause Content varies so much and e-Frontiers so call SDK is horrible so Eovia has to deal the changes that e-frontiers did in P6 while trying to remain compatible with P5 and P4 and those 2 have big differences in the way they handle things.
Another one is the so call "injection morphs'' Poser 6 officially doesn't support them and the injection morphs were derived from what was a BUG in Poser 4. So there is not 'injection morphs" code in the Poser SDK cause the BUG has been fix.
Another horrible thing with Poser data is the huge resources hog that its and the need to have multiple runtime files....man what a mess that is.
Seriously I hope Eovia really gets into real character animation tools for Carrara 6 and we don't have to depend on Poser data to created character animations. i am sure they can make it better than poser.
I just have one of those love/hate poser relationships.

arcady · 12th February 2006, 23:41

Pierre has taken my files and appears to be investigating.

It is not for us to make excuses to or cast blame for bugs. Please do not see me as trying to cast blame.

Both injection and regular morphs were supported in 5.0.1, and possibly 5.0.3 as well. The Don sample I gave above is not injection, and it also fails. The Aiko and V3 are both injection and non-inj and both fail. They all did not fail before the current patch.

This is critical to nearly all uses of Poser in the current day Poser community and has been since about Poser 3 if not prior. Morphs have always been a heavily used aspect of Poser. Injection morphs are supported in Poser 6. Poser 6 users still use Victoria 3, Michael 3, and other Daz figures - as a look at any Poser gallery will show.
See also:
http://www.e-frontier.com/article/ar...ew/1425/1/597/
(The above article discusses two ways to save your injection morphs. One a new method that made people think inj morphs had been turned off (keeping the inj in an external file), the other a setting newly added to Poser 6 that preserves the old 'bug' as a modern 'feature' (placing the inj into the pz3)

As an aside; Contentparadise, e-frontier's own Poser content store, sells injection morphs for Poser 6 only e-frontier made models.

[EDIT: I cut the extraneous material ;)]

Thomas · 12th February 2006, 23:51

Arcady: please, can you be alittle bit less "agressive"? Thank you.

arcady · 13th February 2006, 00:04

I have been frustrated over claims and ways of approach, and it got me 'triggery' for which I apologize.

I may not be expert with Carrara, and some of my issues may stem from that. That should not be license to dismiss my other comments out of hand

But I do know what Poser is supposed to do. If there is a bug, there is a bug. There is no blame or fault in that. It happens and people then go work on it and everything is fine and polite.

I will try not to be aggressive, but I would ask that others behave likewise.

Thomas · 13th February 2006, 00:10

Arcady: Your edit makes your message more agressive than it was. And just to remember you that this forum is not an Eovia official forum ;)

10th February 2006, 07:13	#1 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	5.0.4 new bug: Morphs dropping out (failing) on poser native import Compare the two images. On the left in the first image is Poser, and on the right Carrara. The file is a .pzz, and all of the morph dials are dropping out to zero when imported. This problem is -NEW- to 5.0.4. I know that because of the second image. This time on the left is a new import into Carrara. On the right is the same content, back in late January, when I imported it and rendered it in Carrara. The final version of that January render is here. Both now, and back then, Poser Magnets are being lost on import. But now, morph dial settings are -also- being lost. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

10th February 2006, 09:38	#3 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	This is not a rendering issue. The shape of the mesh is lost. Morphs are not a rendering issue. Nor are magnets. They move vertexes. Carrara is importing with the vertexes in the positions set by the .obj file, offset by bones - and not the way they are relocated in Poser and saved into the .pzz Prior to 5.0.4 it imported morphs properly, but still failed on magnets. So all that said, of course, when I render, I get a render based the mesh in Carrara and not the mesh in Poser - and this render is missing the effects of morph dial settings and magnets. Morphing is vertex moving, not render setting, shader trickery, etc. The images I have posted for what is present in Carrara should not even be possible to get - tehcnically, they do no exist in the .pzz file. They exist only in the .obj files before those files were brought into poser and reshaped. To avoid issue, attached is the figure rendered in Poser, then in Carrara, and the settings I use for import. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

10th February 2006, 14:09	#4 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	You have the same with the native import and Transposer 2 ? __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

11th February 2006, 01:18	#5 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	I only have native. Don't have the transposer plugin. __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

11th February 2006, 02:56	#7 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	The above scenes are fairly simple. Aiko 3 and Vicky 3, with face morph dials and body morph dials at non zero positions. Both figures are also clothed and with props. Are you testing on a copy of Carrara regular, without transposer installed? __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

10th February 2006, 09:28	#2 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	You look as though you are not even looking at Test Renderer results in the Assembly Room. How are your results when all is set, appropriately for Poser stuff, and you do a render in the Render Room?

11th February 2006, 02:02	#6 (permalink)
PierreE Eovia Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11	Hello, Poser magnets are not supported by the native importer. Concerning the morph issues, is it working if you create a simple scene in Poser ? I have tryied to reproduce the problem in Carrara 5.0.4, but it seems to work. I have used Poser figures (James...) as well as some others (Aiko for instance). I have been able to import the morph targets with the correct values. If you have a file to reproduce the problem, don't hesitate to contact me directly. Pierre pierre@eovia.com

11th February 2006, 03:18	#8 (permalink)
PierreE Eovia Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11	Try to see if this is working or not: make a scene with only James in Poser in default pose, just tweak some morph dials save it and import it into Carrara.

11th February 2006, 03:34	#10 (permalink)
PierreE Eovia Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 11	Could you send me the pzz file you have problem with ? I can try to make a similar setup to your example, but everything that I am trying is working. Their might be something special in your file... If you have Poser 5, try to make the scene I described before but with "Don Casual". I would like to know if the morph targets are never working for you or just on special scenes. One other thing, are you on Mac or Windows ? Thanks.

11th February 2006, 03:40	#11 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	Arcady I am curious. Why would anyone have more than the one Runtime folder? At the very worst, I would think you would have some in Runtime and others in Downloads/Runtime? As a second query, does Aiko come in two versions, the full and the low.? Could this be some of the problem?

11th February 2006, 03:46	#12 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	Lacking James, I took Poser 5's Nude Don, applied a few build in morphs and posed, then imported. Results below. He lost his morphs. 100% of his content is in the default Poser 5 runtime folder. ****************** This is -NOT- an Aiko problem. It is just that one of the tests I did was with Aiko and I mentioned her over and over because she and all the items I used for her were available for free. I've now seen the problem with Aiko, V3, and Don. I use the default versions of these figures. **************** Prior to the 5.0.3 update, I did not have this problem, as these images prove: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28363856/ - morphed v3 (free figure) http://www.deviantart.com/view/28168987/ - morphed v3 (free figure) http://www.deviantart.com/view/28169120/ - morphed furrete (free figure) I do not know if it started in 5.0.3 or 5.0.4 because the problem of parented objects being deformed was so severe that I simply stepped away from using Carrara for Poser importing during that time. **************** ****************** I keep runtimes for new items, Items I am making / testing, items I had from Poser 4 and before, and the default Poser 5 runtime untouched. On the poser forums, you will find people who seperate out runtimed by figure, poser version, where it is backed up in their backups, and so on. Before Poser 5, people were making custom apps to let them switch runtimes because the amount of content was simply too vast to manage any other way... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

11th February 2006, 04:50	#13 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	Just in case I had a bad install, I uninstalled Carrara and then reinstalled from my CD. In 5.0.1 Don's morphs imported fine. I then updated to 5.0.4 using a copy of the update I downloaded only a few minutes beforehand. This time Don lost his morphs on import. Was hoping I had a bad install... But it doesn't look like it now. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

11th February 2006, 04:56	#14 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	Well done--if you ensure info given to Charles.

11th February 2006, 09:24	#15 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	I had the same problem (via Poser5) when importing to C5 by Native. Ok (see attached) via Transposer2. Attached Thumbnails

12th February 2006, 05:54	#16 (permalink)
Ringo Monfort Guest Posts: n/a	For the ones that do not know Pierre. He is the one that did the Poser stuff in C5 and transposer so he is his the one to talk to. There are a few issues that arise when using Poser imports cause Content varies so much and e-Frontiers so call SDK is horrible so Eovia has to deal the changes that e-frontiers did in P6 while trying to remain compatible with P5 and P4 and those 2 have big differences in the way they handle things. Another one is the so call "injection morphs'' Poser 6 officially doesn't support them and the injection morphs were derived from what was a BUG in Poser 4. So there is not 'injection morphs" code in the Poser SDK cause the BUG has been fix. Another horrible thing with Poser data is the huge resources hog that its and the need to have multiple runtime files....man what a mess that is. Seriously I hope Eovia really gets into real character animation tools for Carrara 6 and we don't have to depend on Poser data to created character animations. i am sure they can make it better than poser. I just have one of those love/hate poser relationships.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes

12th February 2006, 23:41	#17 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	Pierre has taken my files and appears to be investigating. It is not for us to make excuses to or cast blame for bugs. Please do not see me as trying to cast blame. Both injection and regular morphs were supported in 5.0.1, and possibly 5.0.3 as well. The Don sample I gave above is not injection, and it also fails. The Aiko and V3 are both injection and non-inj and both fail. They all did not fail before the current patch. This is critical to nearly all uses of Poser in the current day Poser community and has been since about Poser 3 if not prior. Morphs have always been a heavily used aspect of Poser. Injection morphs are supported in Poser 6. Poser 6 users still use Victoria 3, Michael 3, and other Daz figures - as a look at any Poser gallery will show. See also: http://www.e-frontier.com/article/ar...ew/1425/1/597/ (The above article discusses two ways to save your injection morphs. One a new method that made people think inj morphs had been turned off (keeping the inj in an external file), the other a setting newly added to Poser 6 that preserves the old 'bug' as a modern 'feature' (placing the inj into the pz3) As an aside; Contentparadise, e-frontier's own Poser content store, sells injection morphs for Poser 6 only e-frontier made models. [EDIT: I cut the extraneous material ;)] __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

12th February 2006, 23:51	#18 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	Arcady: please, can you be alittle bit less "agressive"? Thank you. __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

13th February 2006, 00:04	#19 (permalink)
arcady Cube Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco native Posts: 74	I have been frustrated over claims and ways of approach, and it got me 'triggery' for which I apologize. I may not be expert with Carrara, and some of my issues may stem from that. That should not be license to dismiss my other comments out of hand But I do know what Poser is supposed to do. If there is a bug, there is a bug. There is no blame or fault in that. It happens and people then go work on it and everything is fine and polite. I will try not to be aggressive, but I would ask that others behave likewise. __________________ Legally Artistic Blog \| Art / Writing

13th February 2006, 00:10	#20 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	Arcady: Your edit makes your message more agressive than it was. And just to remember you that this forum is not an Eovia official forum ;) __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]