Future of Eovia? - Polyloop

medeamajic · 28th January 2006, 02:45

I see the Poser Carrara bundle. I think it is great news. Carrara and Poser should be united as one program. I remember Metcreations and would like to see Eovia buy out Poser from Curious labs. I hear that Poser and Carrara can not be used at post production houses like ILM , PIXAR or Dream Works. People say they are both for hobby use only. Does Eovia have plans to push Carrara/Poser combo as a highend solution?. Is the only thing stopping Carrara from being used for film the fact that it can only us 25 nodes? Would a 500 node Grid put Carrara up to par with Lightwave, Maya and 3DS MAX? Just curious as to why Carrara is not considered up to par with Maya and Lightwave? Does it need to run on Linux to be used a ILM or Pixar?

Corndog · 28th January 2006, 03:37

Is there a break in price on Poser 6 for those that already own C5P?

28th January 2006, 04:48

While it is good to have poser support in Carrara 5 I been a long time user of Poser and I have beta test it, I don't think Poser is the ideal character animation solution for Carrara. Carrara should have much better native character animation tools and not depend on Poser to create character animations. Poser has not made any major advances in character animation from version 3. The Dynamic hair an clothing are very slow and buggy by today standards. I have seen better character animation tools in Project Messiah. Another problem with Poser is that all the characters are not SDS so your mesh is very heavy and it becomes rediculous to animate more than one character in a scene. It is wonderful for posing figures and do single frame renders they do look beautiful but animation wise its best to animate in Messiah.
So I would not wish for Eovia to waste money buying Poser from e-Frontiers. The money would be better spend if they develop better character animation tools within Carrara.

Later

Ringo

medeamajic · 28th January 2006, 05:46

The fact that Carrara can work with Daz/Poser figures makes it easier to use for the novice but experts will make their own models. I still think Poser is a little easier for figure animation with Daz figures than Carrara but I think Carrara will get better. I am just wondering if Eovia would like to see Carrara used for feature films. It would be great to see Poser used in a feature film. I think it must be the lack of render nodes and the lack of Linux/Unix support. I think it is great that Carrara is getting better landscaping/atmosphere tools and figure animation tools over time. By Version 7 it should rival Maya and Lightwave.

LoneGunman · 28th January 2006, 09:10

Just to back you up on SDS thing, Ringo, the main reason I got away from Bryce and Poser were nonexistant ability to subdivide on render time (talking about multiple subdivision of low poly cages here). I just got sick and tired of importing my models for hours and dealing with literally milions of polys in real time to set up a scene (Bryce) and then render itself takes forever (animation was never an option,

)...With all that said, no, Poser and Bryce are never going to be considered as serious animation tools, and yes, as far as I can see, Carrara have that chance, we will see

medeamajic · 28th January 2006, 19:35

Maybe Poser needs a complete code rewrite to become a highend product. I know Carrara is newer than Bryce or Poser. Bryce 5.5 seems to have code bloat from what I read at DAZ. They say Bryce 6.0 is in the works and the code is being rewritten. It seems like Carrara 5 can be networked for rendering much better than Bryce 5.5.

bwtr · 29th January 2006, 02:53

Bryce, Poser and the original form of Carrara were once of the same family. Carrara is the one which has really shot ahead. (Well thats my understanding)

AWBenson · 29th January 2006, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwtr

Bryce, Poser and the original form of Carrara were once of the same family. Carrara is the one which has really shot ahead. (Well thats my understanding)

Quite true. Although Carrara did suffer a major lag when it switched hands from metacreation to eovia (and at that time was a TGS company). Bryce stalled while in the hands of Corel, whom either didn't see the potential in the product or simply wasn't interested in it.

To my knowledge, Poser didn't suffer any particular rough periods of company handling. So one would assume they would be further along in the development curve. However, they are woe-fully lacking in this area. They are only now playing catch-up with some modern render features with the release of #6. It also doesn't have much for creating your own models in that program. Which is understandable because I think the original idea was to have a software that can use models but has no ability to make them. This would require you to purchase the models else-where for use in this program. Great way to make a continuing source of income, but bad for anyone expecting "new" tools or a one-in-all application. Achievements like Dyanmic Hair and Dyanmic Cloth continues with this line of thought. Use it, but don't create it here.

Sarissi · 29th January 2006, 06:29

According to the folks at Daz, Corel stopped Bryce development since it would require a very expensive code rewrite. Daz is in the process of rewriting parts of the code for Bryce 6. Other parts will be for Bryce 7, and so on, until the rewrite is completed. Daz has a budget, and must stay within it.

I would like to see native 64 bit versions of Carrara Pro (Mac and Windows), and just possibly a 64 bit linux version for Novell/SuSE Linux.

Marathon · 29th January 2006, 06:38

I wish Project Messiah and ZBrush type features would make their way into Carrara. I don't know a lot about either, being that they're not directly supported in Carrara, and I can't seem to find any import/export info on them...

But, anytime I look at work done in either of those packages I grow quite envious.

bwtr · 29th January 2006, 07:20

If you look at the two (huge) Hexagon training movies by Thomas on the subdivisionmodelling.com site I think you will be VERY envious of what some people can do in Hexagon.

Thomas · 29th January 2006, 10:06

bwtr: the problem is that people like me who are able to build a full realistic (non hyperrealistic, the difference is really important for me) character is a minor group, on the contrary of all 3D hobbyists who want to do the same. This is the true strength of Poser : being able to do that, with 2-3 clics.
And this is a difference between Carrara and Poser: Carrara is a creation solution, while Poser is a modification solution. That's why Eovia made a link between both soltions (Transposer), to help users who can't able to model a full character, to use a premade one from Poser.

Medeamajic: Carrara is a solution for professionals, semi professionals and hobbysist/entousiasms, but not the same ways as a Maya or 3DSMax. For professionals, I means, the professionals of graphism, users who are doing print, illustration creation, and need a 3D tool to their toolset. Users who will do 3D 2-3 days a week, not studios which will do 3D 7days a week, like Pixar, Dreamworks, or any video game studio, because the tool is unapropriate for them. You know, graphism industry is very laaaarge

Ringo: I completly agree with what you wrote

Now, the last question: what will e-frontier add to Poser 7 as new major features?

medeamajic · 29th January 2006, 10:31

Thomas,

I am glade Eovia has opted for better Poser support than the competition. I miss MetaCreations. I think Eovia may take some of the feature from Poser and add them to Carrara. I was thinking that over time Carrara might be competition for Maya and 3DS Max. Maybe I was wrong.

MRK-X2 · 29th January 2006, 13:15

Hello,

i think Carrara is a very good software, because the pricing and the features of Carrara are really good. Please look the other Programs like C4D or Max, there you will spend a lot of money to get that what Carrara give you for the "little" price.

Note: Network Rendering, SSS, GI, Coustics, Physics, Particles, Landscape and Treemodeler, volumetric clouds and so on...

Every software has some bugs and Carrara too. But i see the fair pricing of Carrara and then i can only say:

For hobbyists that is THE Software you have to buy. Only Studios like Pixar or someone else look after Maya or Softimage etc...

Whatever... Carrara is a great software for me, and this combined with Hexagon a very good allround solution

See you

MRK-X2

Marathon · 29th January 2006, 18:35

subdivisionmodelling.com doesn't appear to exist. :-(

29th January 2006, 18:45

http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/

It is with one "L". :-)

Marathon · 29th January 2006, 18:47

Oh, hehe. Thanks. =)

Thomas · 29th January 2006, 18:48

It remembers that I have a news to post about subdivisionmodeling ;)

pnoland · 29th January 2006, 19:57

News eh? Something that I don't know? :D

Marathon · 29th January 2006, 21:34

After having watched those vids of Hexagon in action, I have to say I'm fairly impressed.

I wish the Carrara vertex modelor had such features for manipulation, selection and such. I swear, I can barely extrude a plane in Carrara, without it giving me some "reason/excuse" dialog about why it can't, or it simply doing nothing.

28th January 2006, 02:45	#1 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Future of Eovia? I see the Poser Carrara bundle. I think it is great news. Carrara and Poser should be united as one program. I remember Metcreations and would like to see Eovia buy out Poser from Curious labs. I hear that Poser and Carrara can not be used at post production houses like ILM , PIXAR or Dream Works. People say they are both for hobby use only. Does Eovia have plans to push Carrara/Poser combo as a highend solution?. Is the only thing stopping Carrara from being used for film the fact that it can only us 25 nodes? Would a 500 node Grid put Carrara up to par with Lightwave, Maya and 3DS MAX? Just curious as to why Carrara is not considered up to par with Maya and Lightwave? Does it need to run on Linux to be used a ILM or Pixar?

28th January 2006, 03:37	#2 (permalink)
Corndog Edge modeling Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 384	Is there a break in price on Poser 6 for those that already own C5P? __________________ daz3d forums blow chunks

28th January 2006, 09:10	#5 (permalink)
LoneGunman SILO abuser Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Louisville, KY USA Posts: 556	Just to back you up on SDS thing, Ringo, the main reason I got away from Bryce and Poser were nonexistant ability to subdivide on render time (talking about multiple subdivision of low poly cages here). I just got sick and tired of importing my models for hours and dealing with literally milions of polys in real time to set up a scene (Bryce) and then render itself takes forever (animation was never an option, )...With all that said, no, Poser and Bryce are never going to be considered as serious animation tools, and yes, as far as I can see, Carrara have that chance, we will see __________________ My missions are not impossible, I just make them look that way

29th January 2006, 06:29	#9 (permalink)
Sarissi NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mansfield, Ohio, USA Posts: 112	According to the folks at Daz, Corel stopped Bryce development since it would require a very expensive code rewrite. Daz is in the process of rewriting parts of the code for Bryce 6. Other parts will be for Bryce 7, and so on, until the rewrite is completed. Daz has a budget, and must stay within it. I would like to see native 64 bit versions of Carrara Pro (Mac and Windows), and just possibly a 64 bit linux version for Novell/SuSE Linux. __________________ Carrara Newbie

29th January 2006, 10:06	#12 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	bwtr: the problem is that people like me who are able to build a full realistic (non hyperrealistic, the difference is really important for me) character is a minor group, on the contrary of all 3D hobbyists who want to do the same. This is the true strength of Poser : being able to do that, with 2-3 clics. And this is a difference between Carrara and Poser: Carrara is a creation solution, while Poser is a modification solution. That's why Eovia made a link between both soltions (Transposer), to help users who can't able to model a full character, to use a premade one from Poser. Medeamajic: Carrara is a solution for professionals, semi professionals and hobbysist/entousiasms, but not the same ways as a Maya or 3DSMax. For professionals, I means, the professionals of graphism, users who are doing print, illustration creation, and need a 3D tool to their toolset. Users who will do 3D 2-3 days a week, not studios which will do 3D 7days a week, like Pixar, Dreamworks, or any video game studio, because the tool is unapropriate for them. You know, graphism industry is very laaaarge Ringo: I completly agree with what you wrote Now, the last question: what will e-frontier add to Poser 7 as new major features? __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

28th January 2006, 04:48	#3 (permalink)
Ringo Monfort Guest Posts: n/a	While it is good to have poser support in Carrara 5 I been a long time user of Poser and I have beta test it, I don't think Poser is the ideal character animation solution for Carrara. Carrara should have much better native character animation tools and not depend on Poser to create character animations. Poser has not made any major advances in character animation from version 3. The Dynamic hair an clothing are very slow and buggy by today standards. I have seen better character animation tools in Project Messiah. Another problem with Poser is that all the characters are not SDS so your mesh is very heavy and it becomes rediculous to animate more than one character in a scene. It is wonderful for posing figures and do single frame renders they do look beautiful but animation wise its best to animate in Messiah. So I would not wish for Eovia to waste money buying Poser from e-Frontiers. The money would be better spend if they develop better character animation tools within Carrara. Later Ringo

28th January 2006, 05:46	#4 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	The fact that Carrara can work with Daz/Poser figures makes it easier to use for the novice but experts will make their own models. I still think Poser is a little easier for figure animation with Daz figures than Carrara but I think Carrara will get better. I am just wondering if Eovia would like to see Carrara used for feature films. It would be great to see Poser used in a feature film. I think it must be the lack of render nodes and the lack of Linux/Unix support. I think it is great that Carrara is getting better landscaping/atmosphere tools and figure animation tools over time. By Version 7 it should rival Maya and Lightwave.

28th January 2006, 19:35	#6 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Maybe Poser needs a complete code rewrite to become a highend product. I know Carrara is newer than Bryce or Poser. Bryce 5.5 seems to have code bloat from what I read at DAZ. They say Bryce 6.0 is in the works and the code is being rewritten. It seems like Carrara 5 can be networked for rendering much better than Bryce 5.5.

29th January 2006, 02:53	#7 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	Bryce, Poser and the original form of Carrara were once of the same family. Carrara is the one which has really shot ahead. (Well thats my understanding)

29th January 2006, 06:38	#10 (permalink)
Marathon Spline Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 52	I wish Project Messiah and ZBrush type features would make their way into Carrara. I don't know a lot about either, being that they're not directly supported in Carrara, and I can't seem to find any import/export info on them... But, anytime I look at work done in either of those packages I grow quite envious.

29th January 2006, 07:20	#11 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	If you look at the two (huge) Hexagon training movies by Thomas on the subdivisionmodelling.com site I think you will be VERY envious of what some people can do in Hexagon.

29th January 2006, 10:31	#13 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Thomas, I am glade Eovia has opted for better Poser support than the competition. I miss MetaCreations. I think Eovia may take some of the feature from Poser and add them to Carrara. I was thinking that over time Carrara might be competition for Maya and 3DS Max. Maybe I was wrong.

29th January 2006, 13:15	#14 (permalink)
MRK-X2 NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Germany, NRW Posts: 103	Hello, i think Carrara is a very good software, because the pricing and the features of Carrara are really good. Please look the other Programs like C4D or Max, there you will spend a lot of money to get that what Carrara give you for the "little" price. Note: Network Rendering, SSS, GI, Coustics, Physics, Particles, Landscape and Treemodeler, volumetric clouds and so on... Every software has some bugs and Carrara too. But i see the fair pricing of Carrara and then i can only say: For hobbyists that is THE Software you have to buy. Only Studios like Pixar or someone else look after Maya or Softimage etc... Whatever... Carrara is a great software for me, and this combined with Hexagon a very good allround solution See you MRK-X2 __________________ Used Software: Carrara Studio 5 Pro Hexagon Video Studio 9 Photoshop 6 X2-Creation - for Digital Design

29th January 2006, 18:35	#15 (permalink)
Marathon Spline Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 52	subdivisionmodelling.com doesn't appear to exist. :-(

29th January 2006, 18:45	#16 (permalink)
Ringo Monfort Guest Posts: n/a	http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/ It is with one "L". :-)

29th January 2006, 18:47	#17 (permalink)
Marathon Spline Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 52	Oh, hehe. Thanks. =)

29th January 2006, 18:48	#18 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,323	It remembers that I have a news to post about subdivisionmodeling ;) __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

29th January 2006, 19:57	#19 (permalink)
pnoland Spline Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Near Chicago Posts: 49	News eh? Something that I don't know? :D

29th January 2006, 21:34	#20 (permalink)
Marathon Spline Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 52	After having watched those vids of Hexagon in action, I have to say I'm fairly impressed. I wish the Carrara vertex modelor had such features for manipulation, selection and such. I swear, I can barely extrude a plane in Carrara, without it giving me some "reason/excuse" dialog about why it can't, or it simply doing nothing.

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