Would I get petter previews with Open GL 2.0 - Polyloop

medeamajic · 19th January 2006, 11:57

I just installed Carrara 5 Pro. I was expecting a better image in my preveiws with Carrara 5 along with a little more speed. I only have a GeFroce FX 5200 video card. Would a GeForce FX 7800 with Open GL 2.0 make a big difference or not? Is there a big difference from Open GL 1.0, 1.2, 1.5 and 2.0? I will get a better video card if it will help. I think my 5200 is only at 1.2.

Any info would help.

bwtr · 19th January 2006, 12:50

Suggestions from a non expert. At least for general work why not stick with Carrara renderer rather than open gl. Is it really slower for test rendering? Set your test rendering requirements in the interactive render settings. (The arrow in the circle) And ensure your render settings are at default--even smaller image size speeds things up. If Skylight is ticked yor test renders slow down.

Thomas · 19th January 2006, 12:53

Did you change the texture quality from 128 to 512?
The problem with OpenGL 2 technology is that a lot of users don't have an openGL 2.0 video card... (a lot on Mac)

medeamajic · 19th January 2006, 23:56

bwtr,

I am asking about the preveiws not rendering.

Thomas,

I have switched everything for previews including reflection and boosting quality to the best. The Previews do look a little better if I set everything to the highest settings but I am wondering if a GeForce 7800 would actually look like glass and chrome. True Space 7 seems to get a real good preview but I think it uses DX9 instead of Open GL. Is Direct X better than Open GL?

Thomas · 20th January 2006, 01:03

In fact, both are the same for specification (well, not really, but most features are the same between DX9 and openGL2)
True space, the preview of the next version show a nice realtime display, which use a lot the same technologies as seen in video games. But as I explain above, a lot of users don't have such video cards to handle this kind of realtime rendering...

bwtr · 20th January 2006, 01:10

Mediamajic I was talking about the preview also. Your rendering settings effect the preview times.

medeamajic · 20th January 2006, 04:31

bwrt,

That is what I thought until I read your last sentence about the skylight. I know I can select that in the render room but I don't see it in the preview option. Open GL is faster than the Eovia Preview so I think I will use it over the Eovia rendering for previews. I would love to install my Carrara on a Dell with the 7800 video card to test it out. I think I would get better performance and better textures.

bwtr · 20th January 2006, 05:05

Just to clarify, you render settings --in the Render Room--have an effect on preview render times. Including image size slows things down. The "quality" of the preview rendering is set in the Interactive Render Settings (The arrow in the circle).

medeamajic · 20th January 2006, 05:27

In my system the render room setting did not seem to affect the performance of the previews but I can test it out again. I do think a video card that can make use of Open GL 2.0 would look better other wise there would be no need for the Geforce FX 7800 and Open GL 2.0. I think I will try to install Carrara on a highend system and let you folks now if it rocks.

medeamajic · 20th January 2006, 07:19

In my Open GL preview there is some reflection in the cylinder and sphere but not in the square stretched out like a mirror. The cylinder and square have the same shader. As you can see it should reflect. I thought Carrara 5 was designed with better Open GL previews. I am stumped. Should the cone look like glass and the mirror reflect the images? I am just starting to test Carrara 5 since I received it last week.

bwtr · 20th January 2006, 07:49

I did not think Open GL had anything to do with image quality-only workabilty of the system! (I may be wrong) Secondly, I did not think test renders were ever up to the quality of renders--just indicative. Again I may be wrong. I presume the test render is the first one, and the second the working screen. How did you set things to get this second image which I find hard to imagine me getting.? Have you fully read the help files? Hope someone better can respond for you.

Looking more at your image I have no idea of item locations or thier angles to objects, each other, and lighting to be able to comment. You can see I am suggesting you look at these relationships.

pascal · 20th January 2006, 10:39

Hi,
Let me try to explain what OpenGL 2.0 is from a the developer stand point.

First, the level of OpenGL does not change the rendering quality of a particular program unless this program implements different rendering techniques for each level.
Carrara 5 implements only one level of OpenGL support: 1.4.
As of today, this is the most portable, stable and widely used level.
So, in your case, moving to a GeForce 7xxx does not change the way Carrara will draw object. It will just be faster and probably allow you to load more textures.

Features defined in OpenGL 1.5 and 2.0 are not yet used in Carrara 5.

The most important enhancement of 2.0 are the GLSL extensions which will allow us to write small programs that can be loaded on the graphic board to implement custom rendering such as phong shading, bump mapping, ...
The OpenGL 2.0 specifications have been published last summer. Although the major hardware vendors claim to support it, very few graphic boards having the required hardware are on the market today. (Your board does support it pretty well).
Obviously, we could write a renderer that uses these features and claim that we support OpenGL 2.0 but very few users would be able to use it on their board. (We have already done some tests in lab)
So we prefer to spend time on features that can be used by all users.

But don't worry, you have bought an excellent graphic board. And even if Carrara today does not use some of its advanced features, the rendering speed is a very strong argument.

Pascal Doux

medeamajic · 20th January 2006, 12:29

bwtr,

The images are just screen shots. One image is a preview window the other is the preveiw window with an area render. I am only interested in the previews and not the full renders. I did an area render to show that that the objects should show up in the mirror if the previews were Photo Realistic. Carrara mentions it can take advantage or Open GL acceleration. I do not expect my previews and orthoganal views to look fully render but if you look at my images some ojects start to show reflections, not 100% quality but a slight reflection. What you could do is take a look at True Space 7. It uses Direct X9 to get photo realistic previews. I like Carrara but the closer my previews can get to a fully rendered images the better.

pascal,

Thank you for the info. You saved me a lot of money and time. True Space 7 has a brand new RT preview system. They opted to use Direct X 9 as the engine for it. Could Carrara take advantage of Direct X 9? I have not used True Space 7 I only watched a short video demo. They are modeling and rotating and the preview images while modeling look very real. I think my previews are as good as Carrara gets. Don't get me wrong it does not look bad. I was just real impressed with the True Space demo. A few other people have mentioned how good TS 7 looks in preview mode and the GUI of TS 7 looks much better than version 6. It models a lot like Hexagon. I never could make use of the Magic Ring in True Space 6 so I sold mine on ebay. I kind of wish I had kept it now that TS 7 is out.

Naes3d · 23rd January 2006, 03:35

I think that it is a good idea to concentrate on features everyone will use. Better to increase productivity than to have a pretty cube you need the manual to know what to do with.

19th January 2006, 11:57	#1 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Would I get petter previews with Open GL 2.0 I just installed Carrara 5 Pro. I was expecting a better image in my preveiws with Carrara 5 along with a little more speed. I only have a GeFroce FX 5200 video card. Would a GeForce FX 7800 with Open GL 2.0 make a big difference or not? Is there a big difference from Open GL 1.0, 1.2, 1.5 and 2.0? I will get a better video card if it will help. I think my 5200 is only at 1.2. Any info would help.

19th January 2006, 12:53	#3 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,295	Did you change the texture quality from 128 to 512? The problem with OpenGL 2 technology is that a lot of users don't have an openGL 2.0 video card... (a lot on Mac) __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

20th January 2006, 01:03	#5 (permalink)
Thomas Always learning new stuff Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Merignac, France Posts: 11,295	In fact, both are the same for specification (well, not really, but most features are the same between DX9 and openGL2) True space, the preview of the next version show a nice realtime display, which use a lot the same technologies as seen in video games. But as I explain above, a lot of users don't have such video cards to handle this kind of realtime rendering... __________________ Polyloop owner & Administrator - no support by PM or email. Polyloop [EN/FR] - Meuuh [FR +16 ans] - Totyo [FR] - Pixologic [JOB] - Le ZBlog [JOB] - La3dpourlesnuls [FR]

20th January 2006, 07:19	#10 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	In my Open GL preview there is some reflection in the cylinder and sphere but not in the square stretched out like a mirror. The cylinder and square have the same shader. As you can see it should reflect. I thought Carrara 5 was designed with better Open GL previews. I am stumped. Should the cone look like glass and the mirror reflect the images? I am just starting to test Carrara 5 since I received it last week. Attached Thumbnails

20th January 2006, 10:39	#12 (permalink)
pascal Vertex Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 7	OpenGL 2.0 and Carrara 5 Hi, Let me try to explain what OpenGL 2.0 is from a the developer stand point. First, the level of OpenGL does not change the rendering quality of a particular program unless this program implements different rendering techniques for each level. Carrara 5 implements only one level of OpenGL support: 1.4. As of today, this is the most portable, stable and widely used level. So, in your case, moving to a GeForce 7xxx does not change the way Carrara will draw object. It will just be faster and probably allow you to load more textures. Features defined in OpenGL 1.5 and 2.0 are not yet used in Carrara 5. The most important enhancement of 2.0 are the GLSL extensions which will allow us to write small programs that can be loaded on the graphic board to implement custom rendering such as phong shading, bump mapping, ... The OpenGL 2.0 specifications have been published last summer. Although the major hardware vendors claim to support it, very few graphic boards having the required hardware are on the market today. (Your board does support it pretty well). Obviously, we could write a renderer that uses these features and claim that we support OpenGL 2.0 but very few users would be able to use it on their board. (We have already done some tests in lab) So we prefer to spend time on features that can be used by all users. But don't worry, you have bought an excellent graphic board. And even if Carrara today does not use some of its advanced features, the rendering speed is a very strong argument. Pascal Doux

19th January 2006, 12:50	#2 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Suggestions from a non expert. At least for general work why not stick with Carrara renderer rather than open gl. Is it really slower for test rendering? Set your test rendering requirements in the interactive render settings. (The arrow in the circle) And ensure your render settings are at default--even smaller image size speeds things up. If Skylight is ticked yor test renders slow down.

19th January 2006, 23:56	#4 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	bwtr, I am asking about the preveiws not rendering. Thomas, I have switched everything for previews including reflection and boosting quality to the best. The Previews do look a little better if I set everything to the highest settings but I am wondering if a GeForce 7800 would actually look like glass and chrome. True Space 7 seems to get a real good preview but I think it uses DX9 instead of Open GL. Is Direct X better than Open GL?

20th January 2006, 01:10	#6 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Mediamajic I was talking about the preview also. Your rendering settings effect the preview times.

20th January 2006, 04:31	#7 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	bwrt, That is what I thought until I read your last sentence about the skylight. I know I can select that in the render room but I don't see it in the preview option. Open GL is faster than the Eovia Preview so I think I will use it over the Eovia rendering for previews. I would love to install my Carrara on a Dell with the 7800 video card to test it out. I think I would get better performance and better textures.

20th January 2006, 05:05	#8 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Just to clarify, you render settings --in the Render Room--have an effect on preview render times. Including image size slows things down. The "quality" of the preview rendering is set in the Interactive Render Settings (The arrow in the circle).

20th January 2006, 05:27	#9 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	In my system the render room setting did not seem to affect the performance of the previews but I can test it out again. I do think a video card that can make use of Open GL 2.0 would look better other wise there would be no need for the Geforce FX 7800 and Open GL 2.0. I think I will try to install Carrara on a highend system and let you folks now if it rocks.

20th January 2006, 07:49	#11 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	I did not think Open GL had anything to do with image quality-only workabilty of the system! (I may be wrong) Secondly, I did not think test renders were ever up to the quality of renders--just indicative. Again I may be wrong. I presume the test render is the first one, and the second the working screen. How did you set things to get this second image which I find hard to imagine me getting.? Have you fully read the help files? Hope someone better can respond for you. Looking more at your image I have no idea of item locations or thier angles to objects, each other, and lighting to be able to comment. You can see I am suggesting you look at these relationships.

20th January 2006, 12:29	#13 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	bwtr, The images are just screen shots. One image is a preview window the other is the preveiw window with an area render. I am only interested in the previews and not the full renders. I did an area render to show that that the objects should show up in the mirror if the previews were Photo Realistic. Carrara mentions it can take advantage or Open GL acceleration. I do not expect my previews and orthoganal views to look fully render but if you look at my images some ojects start to show reflections, not 100% quality but a slight reflection. What you could do is take a look at True Space 7. It uses Direct X9 to get photo realistic previews. I like Carrara but the closer my previews can get to a fully rendered images the better. pascal, Thank you for the info. You saved me a lot of money and time. True Space 7 has a brand new RT preview system. They opted to use Direct X 9 as the engine for it. Could Carrara take advantage of Direct X 9? I have not used True Space 7 I only watched a short video demo. They are modeling and rotating and the preview images while modeling look very real. I think my previews are as good as Carrara gets. Don't get me wrong it does not look bad. I was just real impressed with the True Space demo. A few other people have mentioned how good TS 7 looks in preview mode and the GUI of TS 7 looks much better than version 6. It models a lot like Hexagon. I never could make use of the Magic Ring in True Space 6 so I sold mine on ebay. I kind of wish I had kept it now that TS 7 is out.

23rd January 2006, 03:35	#14 (permalink)
Naes3d Box modeling Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 231	I think that it is a good idea to concentrate on features everyone will use. Better to increase productivity than to have a pretty cube you need the manual to know what to do with.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode