[Carrara]Isometric Camera doesn't work in C6

[bwtr]

I don't think C5 differs from C6. Here are two C6 test exercises showing the difference when a Sky had been included in the second effort. Note the differences from my last post which included a sceen! (Again I don't think C6 is different to C5?)

[medeamajic]

Originally Posted by bwtr

This is in Carrara 5 which is identical to Carrara6 for me! Would anyone ever render in Isometic camera?
It seems I have a charmed life by sticking with the conical!

I do not have Carrara on my system so I may be thinking of a different Camera. I know that Carrara can opt to render from the defualt views like front, back and top. This elimates vanishing points and renders with an almost 2-D like drafting view (no vanishing points). I think I will install Carrara to see if I am thinking of the right camera (isometric). If you look at the top or front view as opposed to the camera view you will notice they do not have vanishing points. I may be thinking of a differnt Camera other than isometric but after reading my post I am sure you can see why some folks would opt not to use the conical camera. I have for a render of logo in the past.

[rickei]

you are 100% correct on all points medeamajic.
the problem we (Carl & I) are having is that the production frame shown in the assembly room with the isometric view, is not consistent with the actual rendering.

Brian, as a professional photographer, I thought you would see the advantage of an isometric lens(non-perspective). I have had to spend hours adjusting the angle on a bellows lens, to get rid of vanishing points in (real life)architectural shots. this is essentially the same in a Carrara rendering. this is especially helpful in "graphic design" applications, such as logo's, web site buttons and graphics, etc.

Carl, you are on a Mac right? So maybe this is a Mac bug. I have not checked the tracker, but it needs to be reported.

[medeamajic]

Originally Posted by rickei

you are 100% correct on all points medeamajic.
the problem we (Carl & I) are having is that the production frame shown in the assembly room with the isometric view, is not consistent with the actual rendering.

Brian, as a professional photographer, I thought you would see the advantage of an isometric lens(non-perspective). I have had to spend hours adjusting the angle on a bellows lens, to get rid of vanishing points in (real life)architectural shots. this is essentially the same in a Carrara rendering. this is especially helpful in "graphic design" applications, such as logo's, web site buttons and graphics, etc.

Carl, you are on a Mac right? So maybe this is a Mac bug. I have not checked the tracker, but it needs to be reported.

Rickei,

You have a major attitude problem. Stop arguing with Brian and learn to respect your elders and listen to their wisdom. Just kidding .

I agree for logos the conical camera may not be the best bet. I designed a logo in Carrara using the standard conical camera but my client wanted a more 2-D perspective with no vanishing points. It took me a while to learn how to use the isometric camera. To zoom in and out I rember I used the controls in the cameras properties tray rather than use the zoom in an out magnifiying glass icon because it would distort my images. I hope this method will still work in Carrara 6. I have just order Carrara 6 Pro on CD so I can test this out soon. For logos isometric might work best (front view).

Brian,

With the conica camera the vanishing piont decreases using a telephoto lens vs the standar lens in the properties tray. Is this the way things work in the real world? Zoom in on an obect using conica camera in the properties tray vs zooming in with the isometric camera using the properties tray. It should look very different.

[CarlLydon]

Hey guys, thanks for the help in checking this out.

BWTR, the reason I use isometric perspective is because I make top-down type games that require no vanishing point or foreshortening. If there were no purpose to an isometric camera it wouldn't be offered as a tool, I guess.

I've thought of the same workaround that you proposed. In Carrara, as in real life, if you move very far away from an object and then magnify the view quite a bit, you can remove most foreshortening, but not all.

FPFRDN3 (man these are hard names), yes, I definitely have been shrinking the production frame to fit my desired view. I was able to do this in the past and should be able to do it now. the default view will pretty much never cover the area I need to render, and it often starts off much bigger than my working box.

[fpfrdn3]

Yep, thats the thing, I can't get the production frame to behave when using isometric in some scenes. Probably Im misssing a zoom function/setting/scaling etc, because I did get it to work fine in one of the logo presets(frame in view and rendered fine). I'll have to read the manual and see what Im doing wrong in other scenes, but I do understand what you are seeing.

[bwtr]

Rickei. The last time I used a bellows was about 1950! Horses for courses over the years I guess.

These camera exercise are quite interesting. Obviously some areas in which others work that I have not encountered in 3D. I do a lot of work in Photoshop/Illustrator---I would take basic workings from Carrara into those to work on. (I am spoilt in having access to the full CS3 Extended Suite!)

I hope I am proved correct in that there is no difference between C5 and C6 in Windows anyway.

Would like to see some actual images comparing the two lens render types if someone has the time.

[chrisd]

bwtr,

Unless you are doing engineering, architectural or product design work, chances are you will never need the isometric camera.

Removing perspective (or vanishing point) is important in communicating the relative dimensions and proportions of an object. Since the perspective will change based on the "virtual" lens focal length, it becomes more difficult to understand the design when mixing renderings produced with varying focal lengths.

So, eliminating perspective allows for some consistency in visual communication.

[bwtr]

Thanks. I think I have been shortcutting the problems by going from 3D to 2D programmes to do any of my work in that area. Having to resolve the problems in 3D seems ---well--complicated!
All those who have any of the more recent versions of Photoshop, especially, will know what I mean.

[medeamajic]

bwtr,

It is great that you have done a few test to compare Carrara 5 to Carrara 6 but some of us are wondering if you can grasp the concept of vanishing points? After reading your post it seems you have no clue. You mentioned you have Photoshop CS 3. Things are indeed getting very intersting. Did you know that CS 2 and 3 have a vanishing point filter? I have used it and I advise you to do the same. When you are driving down the highway next time please look out 1 mile a head of you. Does the road look like it comes together (vanishes (vanishing point))? Does the conical camera give the same effect? Does the isometric camera give this effect?

Your use of PhotoShop with Carrara is a none issue. With out having a firm grasp of the different cameras and lenses it would be wise not to post any more info. Instead of trying to educate us you should just sit back a listen or read what we are saying and allow us to educate you. To state that you have been blessed with your use of the conical camera is illogic wisdom and proves you do not know what the isometric camera is used for.

[CarlLydon]

Dang! I'm happy to get responses; that's how we learn and get ideas.

[smudgee]

i made 2 differnt files, and each one showed the isometrics camera production frame different...weird..one with just a cross in the centre, on with a frame... i guess the cross one could just be that the frame is outa view, but i dunno how it got like that.

On mine (c6.02), i cant zoom in at all using isometric. The cameras x,y,z values change, but it doesnt move an inch.

[medeamajic]

Originally Posted by smudgee

i made 2 differnt files, and each one showed the isometrics camera production frame different...weird..one with just a cross in the centre, on with a frame... i guess the cross one could just be that the frame is outa view, but i dunno how it got like that.

On mine (c6.02), i cant zoom in at all using isometric. The cameras x,y,z values change, but it doesnt move an inch.

You can not use the camera control icon functions with the isometric camera. An isometrci image should not rotate at all. You can not rotate the orthoganan front and side views either. You must use the zoom in and out features in the cameras properties tray (in put the digits). Place a wire frame cube in your scene. Select to change the conical camera to the front view. You should see the conical camera in the same position but the image should look different from the orthoganal front view. The box will start to vanish (Come together) with the conical camera but the orthoganl view will not. Try to use a side view or front view with the isometrci camera and see what happens. I think if you use the isometric camera with the orthoganal views it will work. If you have a room with a long hallway it will lool like it comes to gether with a conical camera but with the isomteric using a front view the walls will stay parellel (almost 2-D). That is the purpose of the isometric view. Select change camera 1 (conical) camera view to front. Then change the camera 1 from conical to isometric and see if it renders the production frame correct. I am still waiting for my Carrara 6 so I can not test this out.

Did you change the director's camera and camera 1 to isometric? The render does look like one of the images.

[smudgee]

@medeamajic, ok , now i see that there is a seperate ZOOM value box for isometric cams- that works /afffects render and viewport.

Medeamajic, when you say "I think if you use the isometric camera with the orthoganal views it will work." , do you mean selecting "top left bottom right etc" ?

As far as i can see , top left bottom etc views are all seperate cameras , ,ie when in them i can see the scenes cameras , its not changing the scene camera to a top /left etc view.

and you said "An isometrci image should not rotate at all."
..the isometric camera does allow rotation ....im confused......sure the other top left side etc dont like u said.

"Did you change the director's camera and camera 1 to isometric? The render does look like one of the images."
I just added an isometric cam . I notice now that the production frame can be enlarged by dragging , , .


dunno mate , bit tired, cant think "straight".

[bwtr]

mediamajic. I use all of that in P/Shop. Every one isrunning around in circles I think.

[medeamajic]

You are correct the production frame can be moved and resized by draggin it. I think carrara is rendering camera 1 and not your isometric camera. Try my suggestion of changing camera 1 to the front or side view. Then switch camera 1 to an isometric camera and see what happens. I never had a problem with Carrara 4 or 5.

I need my Carrara 6.

[medeamajic]

Originally Posted by bwtr

mediamajic. I use all of that in P/Shop. Every one isrunning around in circles I think.

I don't think so. I installed Carrara 5 even though I just order Carrara 6. I know it is the isometric camera that eliminates vanishing points because I tested it out. I will prove this with a few renders to night and post them tomorro from the library since I do not have internet connection at my house. I think Carrara 6 may infact work right but I can not say for sure. I know what I am doing but without Carrara 6 I can not say if it is user error or Carrara.

[bwtr]

Probably irrelavant but may be of interest to some.

[medeamajic]

bwtr,

Do you know what a vanishing point is? Does your vanishing point/perspective change in your photo studio if you use a telephoto lense vs a wide angle lense? Could you answer my questions rather than avoiding them? It would be nice to know if we are on the same page rather than having you render and render and render images. You are stating there is no need to use anything other than the conical cameras in your posts and othes are saying the isometric camera does not work in Carrara 6. There are two issues at hand in this thread. I have a feeling the isometric camera does work but I can not say for sure. You do not have to knock yourself out with poor examples. I will infact set up some images that will show you a very drastic difference between the conical camera and an isometric camera. You will be able to see a difference in the objects and the shadows.

[smudgee]

@medeamajic... yes this woukd be handy for logos and things.......thing is, when i switch to front view, its a seperate cam, i can see the isometric cam in the front view.(see pik)

A work around could be test render in the viewport, but thats not really big enuff to do high res dpi for print , and one would have to screen grab it all the time.


I occasionally get a a weird bug in c6 , where it wont come back after minimising the prog. Its just happend again now....perhaps its a dual monitor thing......