[Carrara]External renderer for Carrara - Polyloop

molaram · 16th August 2007, 10:08

I would like to know if anybody else is thinking Carrara needs a pro level render engine "option". Besides all the great features, in the end what you get is what comes out from the render engine. For pro users there should be an option i think. I dont say it, Daz says that Carrara is a pro level app.

So which render engine would you like to see as a plugin to Carrara and why? im asking...

Piem · 16th August 2007, 10:14

Carrara is already a renderer...so...it's impossible.
it's as if you had asked wich modeling application you would like to embed in hexagon.
Now..the question should make more sense with hexagon.
By the way, my answer would be : The best one. (Maxwell..Stills only)

molaram · 16th August 2007, 10:22

Oh, of course it is and not a bad one, but you are wrong in one thing most 3d apps which have their own internal renderers like Carrara have render engine options as 3rd party plugins (Maya, Lightwave, xsi, C4D, etc...). I like and use Carrara as my main platform, no offense on this post. But every render engine has their pros and cons according to the subject you are working on. You would render a interior scene with maxwell but not a character animation because of speed issues for example. I didnt say lets change the render engine, i said there should be options, like in Truespace as they have VRay, Lightworks and internal renderer. Isn't Maya renderer capable so they put MentalRay or others for you? no ofcourse...

Pete Exxtreme · 16th August 2007, 10:37

I've forgot Mental Ray in your list IMHO

I would say vRay for me....

molaram · 16th August 2007, 12:42

mentalray is extremely complex so i didnt put it as it would not fit with carrara

smudgee · 16th August 2007, 13:42

maxwell, nice n easy.

jbshorty · 16th August 2007, 14:44

I would nominate Fry instead. Reports are that it's faster than Maxwell, has true geometry instancing, and it has a toon rendering engine. But really i think these non-biased engines are great for specific purposes (product stills, archviz, etc). You don't really see them used for many other types of work... Besides that we must consider one more thing. How many Carrara users will really pay US$1100 to own Fry or a similar engine?

shorty

molaram · 16th August 2007, 14:56

I think people dont use Carrara just for its price. I even know some studios use it for not very complex jobs. I checked now and VRay for Truespace is 299$ so there will be users who would pay that. Im totaly with you about unbiased renderers they have a very specific work area.

achrystie · 16th August 2007, 15:35

Personally, I'd just prefer having a lot of different "export" formats for full scenes including the animation and dynamics.

Examples being, in no particular order:
FBX
Collada
Point Oven (I'd really like to see this one).

Unless of course this "open" render plugin architecture also includes a nodal texturing system built into Carrara as well.
Personally the texture "tree" system is quite a limitation in my mind from both options and workflow. Also, the limited number of boxed render nodes, and certain missing or "semi" implemented rendering features are my biggest problem with Carrara....which I still consider a very good program overall, and a good "deal", I just can't figure out where it "fits in" for me, other than making landscapes to export.

Of course the "tree" system is easier for beginners to understand, and many of the things that are missing in the renderer options, most people wouldn't even know to ask for, and the more included render nodes caters to only a small fraction of us with a lot of PC's/MACS available, if need be....so I doubt we'll see these as it doesn't fit with the "core market" this program is now aimed at.

It's a good thought though, and certainly a direction that a lot of programs are going or have gone (Maya, MAX, and now XSI being the primary examples).

ABC

thierry · 17th August 2007, 01:38

As Piem, I think that the question about a plug similar as a renderer on Carrara is a total absurdity. Carrara is already a good Render not a renderer only.
If we think that change Paul for Jean (the real question here) is better because Paul is better only a few points that's meaning that at the end : "Only one must exist"
I prefer an intelligent view more interesting : keep Jean and find how he can became better himself. Why ? Because it's already good, Because unicity can't be a good solution. We have not the same needs in 3D and an exiting compete with differents possibilities must exist... that will better for us.

So I realy think that we could forgot this survey on this thread. We should rather ask, suggest complementary fonctions or imagine news fonctions.
After Carrara concretely will be better as you wish today.

All the plug-in that's exist actually are complementary and not redundant...
For me this thread is a nonsense.

Grendel · 17th August 2007, 02:00

I added Mental Ray to the list, it's not as complex as it seems after you use it a few times.

I would like to see an external render plug-in for Carrara but think it would be cost prohibitive to get one worth the cost vs package price.

Mental Ray would be my pick since I have used it with good results and it's good for animation. Maxwell I have played with but it's so slow I just can't stand it. I have not heard of any of the options other than mental ray used for animation, but that may be me not aware of it.

molaram · 17th August 2007, 09:39

Thierry, the point of this thread was not "hey come on do a plugin quick". If you read the opening message carefully i said that this is my opinion and wanted to learn if anybody else thinks like that. I respect your opinion of not needing an external renderer, but telling that this thead is nonsense doesnt sound friendly. Anyway, of course i want Carrara renderer become better and better like you, but different jobs need different qualifications thats all. Thanks for your point of view by the way

thierry · 17th August 2007, 10:47

but an external renderer doesn't also a sound friendly... carrara can be better as renderer that's a real interesting point of view but an another renderer in a good renderer that's not logical.

molaram · 17th August 2007, 11:04

Carrara is not a "renderer", its an all round package including a renderer. Maxwell is a renderer, Fry is a renderer,Brazil is a renderer. Carrara is more than a renderer, its a full package. Having an external renderer is just like having anything grows for fur rendering in C5. Its not a big deal, thats an option not a replacement.

Pete Exxtreme · 17th August 2007, 11:39

Many people here don't use carrara modeling part (but uses Hexagon or Amapi) and use it only for the rendering... i did that for years

molaram · 17th August 2007, 11:45

what about animators?

Grendel · 17th August 2007, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by molaram

what about animators?

Are you asking if people don't use the animation toolset like they don't use the modeler?

thierry · 17th August 2007, 15:21

A renderer is not a simple plug-in. Sorry but it's realy most interesting that carrara made upgraded in this way. D'you Know that Carrara choosed because is simple and effective the both ? An oher render, an other modeler, an other Uvs editor etc... anfd we have 3Ds or Maya Spirit with many plug-in for pros.
Carrara isn't that gaz factory (french idiome = usine à gaz)
Carrara is choosed because there are not these problems. Actualy, C5Pro is very good for Illustrations and unfinished for animations but it's complete and simple.
The C6 upgrade, if we read Ringo, is about the animation with quaternion, hair (or fur) and so on . The Daz contents evolution is not interesting for me but others guys like it. Finally, it's not necessary an other renderer but just wait that the C6 will be on sale and inside ours computers ?

molaram · 17th August 2007, 15:33

Ok, we have different thoughts but we all still love Carrara

and yes Grendel thats what i was asking..

Grendel · 17th August 2007, 17:17

Character Animation can be a pain to export between apps, especially in carrara's price range. If you step up to xsi or comparable they are starting to make it a simple task using point oven or crosswalk. Messiah has got a good handle on this as well with it's plug-ins, and workstation is about the same price as carrara.

View Poll Results: Which render engine would you like to see as a plugin to Carrara
3Delight	0	0%
Brazil	2	11.11%
Kerkythea	4	22.22%
Maxwell	4	22.22%
VRay	6	33.33%
Mental Ray	2	11.11%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

16th August 2007, 10:08	#1 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	[Carrara]External renderer for Carrara I would like to know if anybody else is thinking Carrara needs a pro level render engine "option". Besides all the great features, in the end what you get is what comes out from the render engine. For pro users there should be an option i think. I dont say it, Daz says that Carrara is a pro level app. So which render engine would you like to see as a plugin to Carrara and why? im asking...

16th August 2007, 10:37	#4 (permalink)
Pete Exxtreme Lick it up Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Thonon/France Posts: 4,618 My Photos: (2) Images: 21	I've forgot Mental Ray in your list IMHO I would say vRay for me.... __________________ Toute faute de frappe ou erreur de syntaxe sont dues a un clavier rebelle à toute forme d'autorité. LightWave 9 \| Hexagon 2 My gallery

16th August 2007, 15:35	#9 (permalink)
achrystie Spline Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 55 My Photos: (0)	I'd rather just have a lot of good export formats. Personally, I'd just prefer having a lot of different "export" formats for full scenes including the animation and dynamics. Examples being, in no particular order: FBX Collada Point Oven (I'd really like to see this one). Unless of course this "open" render plugin architecture also includes a nodal texturing system built into Carrara as well. Personally the texture "tree" system is quite a limitation in my mind from both options and workflow. Also, the limited number of boxed render nodes, and certain missing or "semi" implemented rendering features are my biggest problem with Carrara....which I still consider a very good program overall, and a good "deal", I just can't figure out where it "fits in" for me, other than making landscapes to export. Of course the "tree" system is easier for beginners to understand, and many of the things that are missing in the renderer options, most people wouldn't even know to ask for, and the more included render nodes caters to only a small fraction of us with a lot of PC's/MACS available, if need be....so I doubt we'll see these as it doesn't fit with the "core market" this program is now aimed at. It's a good thought though, and certainly a direction that a lot of programs are going or have gone (Maya, MAX, and now XSI being the primary examples). ABC

17th August 2007, 01:38	#10 (permalink)
thierry Moderator Megaralor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toulouse Posts: 2,253 My Photos: (13) Images: 20	As Piem, I think that the question about a plug similar as a renderer on Carrara is a total absurdity. Carrara is already a good Render not a renderer only. If we think that change Paul for Jean (the real question here) is better because Paul is better only a few points that's meaning that at the end : "Only one must exist" I prefer an intelligent view more interesting : keep Jean and find how he can became better himself. Why ? Because it's already good, Because unicity can't be a good solution. We have not the same needs in 3D and an exiting compete with differents possibilities must exist... that will better for us. So I realy think that we could forgot this survey on this thread. We should rather ask, suggest complementary fonctions or imagine news fonctions. After Carrara concretely will be better as you wish today. All the plug-in that's exist actually are complementary and not redundant... For me this thread is a nonsense. __________________ Dessinateur ! Rien d'autre. C'est bien assez compliqué comme cela... Draughtsman! Nothing other. It is well rather complicated like that... Mac G5 Bi-pro 1,8x2, 1,5 Go, Fx 5200, Amapi designer, Carrara pro, Photoshop CS et painter IX, Vidéo en amateur. Site ANIMAGO Site illustrateur

16th August 2007, 10:14	#2 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,580 My Photos: (15)	Carrara is already a renderer...so...it's impossible. it's as if you had asked wich modeling application you would like to embed in hexagon. Now..the question should make more sense with hexagon. By the way, my answer would be : The best one. (Maxwell..Stills only)

16th August 2007, 10:22	#3 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	Oh, of course it is and not a bad one, but you are wrong in one thing most 3d apps which have their own internal renderers like Carrara have render engine options as 3rd party plugins (Maya, Lightwave, xsi, C4D, etc...). I like and use Carrara as my main platform, no offense on this post. But every render engine has their pros and cons according to the subject you are working on. You would render a interior scene with maxwell but not a character animation because of speed issues for example. I didnt say lets change the render engine, i said there should be options, like in Truespace as they have VRay, Lightworks and internal renderer. Isn't Maya renderer capable so they put MentalRay or others for you? no ofcourse...

16th August 2007, 12:42	#5 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	mentalray is extremely complex so i didnt put it as it would not fit with carrara

16th August 2007, 13:42	#6 (permalink)
smudgee Cube Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 81 My Photos: (0) Images: 1	maxwell, nice n easy.

16th August 2007, 14:44	#7 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,298 My Photos: (1) Images: 1	I would nominate Fry instead. Reports are that it's faster than Maxwell, has true geometry instancing, and it has a toon rendering engine. But really i think these non-biased engines are great for specific purposes (product stills, archviz, etc). You don't really see them used for many other types of work... Besides that we must consider one more thing. How many Carrara users will really pay US$1100 to own Fry or a similar engine? shorty

16th August 2007, 14:56	#8 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	I think people dont use Carrara just for its price. I even know some studios use it for not very complex jobs. I checked now and VRay for Truespace is 299$ so there will be users who would pay that. Im totaly with you about unbiased renderers they have a very specific work area.

17th August 2007, 02:00	#11 (permalink)
Grendel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,213 My Photos: (25) Images: 23	I added Mental Ray to the list, it's not as complex as it seems after you use it a few times. I would like to see an external render plug-in for Carrara but think it would be cost prohibitive to get one worth the cost vs package price. Mental Ray would be my pick since I have used it with good results and it's good for animation. Maxwell I have played with but it's so slow I just can't stand it. I have not heard of any of the options other than mental ray used for animation, but that may be me not aware of it.

17th August 2007, 09:39	#12 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	Thierry, the point of this thread was not "hey come on do a plugin quick". If you read the opening message carefully i said that this is my opinion and wanted to learn if anybody else thinks like that. I respect your opinion of not needing an external renderer, but telling that this thead is nonsense doesnt sound friendly. Anyway, of course i want Carrara renderer become better and better like you, but different jobs need different qualifications thats all. Thanks for your point of view by the way

17th August 2007, 10:47	#13 (permalink)
thierry Moderator Megaralor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toulouse Posts: 2,253 My Photos: (13) Images: 20	but an external renderer doesn't also a sound friendly... carrara can be better as renderer that's a real interesting point of view but an another renderer in a good renderer that's not logical. __________________ Dessinateur ! Rien d'autre. C'est bien assez compliqué comme cela... Draughtsman! Nothing other. It is well rather complicated like that... Mac G5 Bi-pro 1,8x2, 1,5 Go, Fx 5200, Amapi designer, Carrara pro, Photoshop CS et painter IX, Vidéo en amateur. Site ANIMAGO Site illustrateur

17th August 2007, 11:04	#14 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	Carrara is not a "renderer", its an all round package including a renderer. Maxwell is a renderer, Fry is a renderer,Brazil is a renderer. Carrara is more than a renderer, its a full package. Having an external renderer is just like having anything grows for fur rendering in C5. Its not a big deal, thats an option not a replacement.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

17th August 2007, 11:39	#15 (permalink)
Pete Exxtreme Lick it up Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Thonon/France Posts: 4,618 My Photos: (2) Images: 21	Many people here don't use carrara modeling part (but uses Hexagon or Amapi) and use it only for the rendering... i did that for years __________________ Toute faute de frappe ou erreur de syntaxe sont dues a un clavier rebelle à toute forme d'autorité. LightWave 9 \| Hexagon 2 My gallery

17th August 2007, 11:45	#16 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	what about animators?

17th August 2007, 15:21	#18 (permalink)
thierry Moderator Megaralor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toulouse Posts: 2,253 My Photos: (13) Images: 20	A renderer is not a simple plug-in. Sorry but it's realy most interesting that carrara made upgraded in this way. D'you Know that Carrara choosed because is simple and effective the both ? An oher render, an other modeler, an other Uvs editor etc... anfd we have 3Ds or Maya Spirit with many plug-in for pros. Carrara isn't that gaz factory (french idiome = usine à gaz) Carrara is choosed because there are not these problems. Actualy, C5Pro is very good for Illustrations and unfinished for animations but it's complete and simple. The C6 upgrade, if we read Ringo, is about the animation with quaternion, hair (or fur) and so on . The Daz contents evolution is not interesting for me but others guys like it. Finally, it's not necessary an other renderer but just wait that the C6 will be on sale and inside ours computers ? __________________ Dessinateur ! Rien d'autre. C'est bien assez compliqué comme cela... Draughtsman! Nothing other. It is well rather complicated like that... Mac G5 Bi-pro 1,8x2, 1,5 Go, Fx 5200, Amapi designer, Carrara pro, Photoshop CS et painter IX, Vidéo en amateur. Site ANIMAGO Site illustrateur

17th August 2007, 15:33	#19 (permalink)
molaram Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 61 My Photos: (0) Images: 3	Ok, we have different thoughts but we all still love Carrara and yes Grendel thats what i was asking..

17th August 2007, 17:17	#20 (permalink)
Grendel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,213 My Photos: (25) Images: 23	Character Animation can be a pain to export between apps, especially in carrara's price range. If you step up to xsi or comparable they are starting to make it a simple task using point oven or crosswalk. Messiah has got a good handle on this as well with it's plug-ins, and workstation is about the same price as carrara.