It's a primary feature of C6. What ya think? - Page 2 - Polyloop

Tunesy · 26th January 2007, 22:40

Yea, I realize all that, Couerl. When it comes to humans I only use canned stuff for the same reasons you stated. Heck, I even think daz did a great job with V4. I bought it and am very happy with it. Perhaps I can word my concerns a little more precisely. I worry about the results if a programmer spends 20 hours in a week for traditiional Carrara development and 20 hours for 'daz centric features' instead of 40 hours strictly on traditional Carrara stuff. I don't need any 'daz centric features' and I'd bet a lot of other users feel the same way. Daz' software development history, well, it can't be sugar coated. However, it is good to know that they still have the original dev team. Maybe daz will turn the corner with software this time? That would be great. I'm not going to bet on that horse, but I'll be happy if it crosses the finish line.

Patrick210 · 27th January 2007, 00:53

I don't think it's a big surprise that DAZ would upgrade their content support in Carrara. Carrara is obviously a better place for people to render their content than Poser or DAZStudio. If improved content support gets more people to use Carrara, then it also then helps to perpetuate further development of all other aspects of Carrara. More users, more money, more development. I also know that in the past, every new version of Carrara has added a number of new "primary" features, so I wouldn't assume that better content support is all they'll have to offer in the next upgrade. (IMHO) DAZ wouldn't have retained the entire Carrara programming team if they didn't intend to continue to develop all aspects of Carrara.

Patrick

micaelito · 27th January 2007, 01:09

Time will tell

medeamajic · 27th January 2007, 01:31

Patrick,

I agree. Better content support is OK with me. Carrara will get more market share this way. Having said that using Carrara as bait for memberships is not cool. Selling Carrara 6 Pro to everyone for $99.99 and not just Daz members as an early sales promo would be OK with me. Even more people would buy it. Daz just wants to make it look like their premade content is the best because they can bait more members now with Carrara. The sale of content is OK but the baiting is wrong. That is why I say Daz sucks.

jbshorty · 27th January 2007, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick210

...DAZ wouldn't have retained the entire Carrara programming team if they didn't intend to continue to develop all aspects of Carrara...

Patrick

Unless they plan to keep 'em just long enough to train their replacements

. Just kidding... or am I ?

hmmm....

Couerl · 27th January 2007, 01:53

I understand, if anything though I think the opposite is true. Daz has more money than Eovia had, alot more (because of content and memberships and Vicki's etc...) and they've already added additional devs to Carrara that Eovia probably could not have afforded. I think not only will the feature set be a lot nicer in C6, but the cost will go down as well. 99% of the stuff I make in Hex and Carrara doesn't include any purchased content, but I do have some freebies like Aiko and I bought Hiro on sale

and I would use them for a paid project or whatever without hesitation. All you have to do is publish a tut or something and that would just about pay for Vicki-4 and this community always needs more tuts anyway... It's not a bad idea for people who want to learn more or want nothing to do with the membership plan

... Say what you want about Daz and their development history or E-Frontier or Adobe or Autodesk or Corel... I make fun of them all the time too.

But don't include the Devs, show them some respect and support because they work their butts off and have to eat just like you and me.

Point is anyway that Carrara is still being developed by Charles and Arnaud and Pierre and a few others and they are some very sharp guys. They deserve more credit than I think they get sometimes and as for Daz's development history, they never had seasoned talent like this before. I expect E-Frontier will be very happy that they picked up the French Eovia team in the end as well. Both companies can only benefit as a result and between them there will be a lot of new features to come.

Couerl · 27th January 2007, 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by medeamajic

using Carrara as bait for memberships is not cool. Selling Carrara 6 Pro to everyone for $99.99 and not just Daz members as an early sales promo would be OK with me. Even more people would buy it. Daz just wants to make it look like their premade content is the best because they can bait more members now with Carrara. The sale of content is OK but the baiting is wrong. That is why I say Daz sucks.

Med, it's not as if Daz is the only company in the world to make use of memberships. Magazines, Golf Courses, Certifications, Sams club, credit card annual fees etc.. (speaking of which, I need to go get a new one) If you pay 35 bucks to be a member for 1 month and get C6 at $99.00 (or whatever its going to be) it's still the same or cheaper than getting the traditional upgrade price of $169.00 every year. You can pay a little at a time for benefits or one lump sum up front and jump.

If no one used "bait" then no one would fish.

ronjurman · 27th January 2007, 03:17

The type of fish you catch depends upon the bait you use.

medeamajic · 27th January 2007, 04:27

Memberships are OK. Pushing it off on people like Daz does is almost blackmail in my opinion.

Couerl · 27th January 2007, 04:53

Hi Ronjurman,

It's a fair question, I think myself its a split demographic at the moment and will be that way for awhile. 3D is hard and you can't take someone who's been using Daz-Studio or Poser for a year and turn them into a 3D-Guru over night. There are traditional "Eovian" all-around 3D artists who make most of their own content and the more "Daz-Centric" or "Poser-Centric" content only users and a lot of new users and users who have actually "downgraded" from more expensive platforms for the ease of use and value of Carrara. I also think that as the user base merges more we'll see good things come out of all of them and I think we already have in fact. It's easy to sit back and bash a content assembler or someone who can't model their own stuff, but some of the work I've seen by them is very nice and particularly so with texturing and lighting and such. Anyway, as that group learns Carrara and discovers its abilities I think we'll see them evolve as artists and want more than what Poser or Daz-Studio can deliver and the software will find a bigger niche somewhere between point and click and 3D-purist. That's when Carrara will really begin to shine I think and that is when it will see a user base maybe three or four times larger than what it is now.
I'm happy I started using it when I did, (C2 era) and I got it cheap and have stayed with the upgrade path.
Anyway, there's a lot of opportunity for Carrara to grow in this bigger arena and it doesn't matter much to me the bait they use, it's how they cook it. We're already seeing the larger Daz user base merge with the Eovia one and they're asking the same old questions we asked at one time and that's cool. As enthusiasm there builds so will the program, it's inevitable in my mind because Carrara has a magic all its own and no one demographic will ever be able to change that.
I'm not worried about Carrara going decadent or becoming a content "only" handler, it won't. Conversely, it will never be Max or XSI or Maya either. I do know as long as that development team is in place that Carrara will continue to grow and get better and I think in the long run Daz will have made a great buy even if they don't quite understand what it is that they bought yet.

On an aside, I was surfing around the net and looked up an old windows 95 video game I used to love called Descent-2 (Came out after Doom-1) and found the original 3D model for the PyroGX-11, which is the spaceship you flew in it and low and behold it was made in Ray Dream Studio-3, Carrara's grandfather and wouldn't you know it, C5 opened it up as a spline model without blinking twice. Long live Carrara...

Couerl · 27th January 2007, 04:56

I know Med and that's one reason I'm not a member. Hehe, but they're not Nazi's about it either, you can pay for a month and get right back out. I did that with Hex-2 and I was happy, I grabbed a few other quick things while I was there and back I went to regular old member status. Nothing wrong with that either.

27th January 2007, 05:58

I totally agree with the statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick210

I don't think it's a big surprise that DAZ would upgrade their content support in Carrara. Carrara is obviously a better place for people to render their content than Poser or DAZStudio. If improved content support gets more people to use Carrara, then it also then helps to perpetuate further development of all other aspects of Carrara. More users, more money, more development. I also know that in the past, every new version of Carrara has added a number of new "primary" features, so I wouldn't assume that better content support is all they'll have to offer in the next upgrade. (IMHO) DAZ wouldn't have retained the entire Carrara programming team if they didn't intend to continue to develop all aspects of Carrara.

Patrick

27th January 2007, 05:59

Very true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

I understand, if anything though I think the opposite is true. Daz has more money than Eovia had, alot more (because of content and memberships and Vicki's etc...) and they've already added additional devs to Carrara that Eovia probably could not have afforded. I think not only will the feature set be a lot nicer in C6, but the cost will go down as well. 99% of the stuff I make in Hex and Carrara doesn't include any purchased content, but I do have some freebies like Aiko and I bought Hiro on sale

and I would use them for a paid project or whatever without hesitation. All you have to do is publish a tut or something and that would just about pay for Vicki-4 and this community always needs more tuts anyway... It's not a bad idea for people who want to learn more or want nothing to do with the membership plan

... Say what you want about Daz and their development history or E-Frontier or Adobe or Autodesk or Corel... I make fun of them all the time too.

But don't include the Devs, show them some respect and support because they work their butts off and have to eat just like you and me.

Point is anyway that Carrara is still being developed by Charles and Arnaud and Pierre and a few others and they are some very sharp guys. They deserve more credit than I think they get sometimes and as for Daz's development history, they never had seasoned talent like this before. I expect E-Frontier will be very happy that they picked up the French Eovia team in the end as well. Both companies can only benefit as a result and between them there will be a lot of new features to come.

27th January 2007, 06:01

You are correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichod

All they are saying is that Carrara will support Daz content more easily. I'd expect that, and I'm sure even if Daz didn't purchase Carrara, that Eovia would have still improved Poser import in C6. Its a big market and more people will purchase Carrara if it works with the tools they use. More people means more money, more money means more development. Just don't assume, because none of us knows what they are talking about.

Tunesy · 27th January 2007, 07:15

That all sounds terrific, however, as the old expression goes: "I hear pretty good but I see real good." The ball is in daz' court. We're all looking forward to seeing what they deliver.

rickei · 29th January 2007, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

I know Med and that's one reason I'm not a member. Hehe, but they're not Nazi's about it either, .

Courel,

You just fulfilled "Godwins Law"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

Couerl · 29th January 2007, 22:44

Oh blast, I'm steeped in mediocrity... The shame. ;)

Altered_Ego · 1st February 2007, 09:26

I'm relatively new here... having come from the DAZ end of things when DAZ sold Hexagon for $1.99 to Platinum Club members. I recently took advantage of DAZ's great price on Carrara as well.

I see DAZ's offers in a more positive light.

DAZ created DAZ|Studio, which allows many people to "create art," for free. For many people, DAZ|Studio is all they'll need or want.

DAZ bought Bryce... Bryce had been handed around and neglected for a few years. DAZ took Bryce, updated it, and offered us a great sale price. Then DAZ rewrote much of Bryce's code, and produced a Universal Binary version for the New Intel Macs as well.

DAZ bought Hexagon, made some updates, and is working on the next version.

DAZ bought Carrara and is also making updates. DAZ did us a favor by offering a great sale price.

DAZ makes it easy for many of us to get great savings on software and content. Just join the PC Club, and save!

DAZ is not pushing or intimidating us. DAZ could just as easily decided not to produce a program to give away for free. DAZ could just as easily have decided not to offer a thousand content items at $1.99 apiece.

I know many of you are "Pros," and I really want to learn from you. I respect you.

But I do think that some of your statements are not very accurate. I do think some of you would benefit from reading the DAZ forums, and participating in the chat events where DAZ informs us of their plans, etc.

Thomas · 1st February 2007, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tunesy

Today daz posted this: "...one of the primary features for Carrara 6 is now that of DAZ content support..." I'll choose my words politely because this is Thomas' forum

No censor here, say what you want until it's not defamation... (And I also don't want my forum to be "forum against DAZ company"...)

medeamajic · 1st February 2007, 10:36

Altered Ego,

With all do respect to link Hexagon and Carrara to the Daz membership is black mail. I never joined the Platinum club before Daz bought Carrara, Why should I have to now? Daz should give everyone a good price not just Daz members. You use content so your view will be different than mine. Most of us Eovians were not already Daz members so it rubs us the wrong way. I used to use Bryce until Daz bought the program. The Bryce upgrades under Daz are a joke.

Daz did you a favor but not all of us. That is something you have to accept. Do you think selling content for under $1.99 helps me in the least? New shoes for Vicki is a non issue for me and always will be.

27th January 2007, 01:09	#23 (permalink)
micaelito Expert en couscous Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rigné (79) Posts: 924	Time will tell __________________ " Qui promène son chien est au bout de la laisse." Prof. André Sanfrapper - 1817

1st February 2007, 09:26	#38 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	I'm relatively new here... having come from the DAZ end of things when DAZ sold Hexagon for $1.99 to Platinum Club members. I recently took advantage of DAZ's great price on Carrara as well. I see DAZ's offers in a more positive light. DAZ created DAZ\|Studio, which allows many people to "create art," for free. For many people, DAZ\|Studio is all they'll need or want. DAZ bought Bryce... Bryce had been handed around and neglected for a few years. DAZ took Bryce, updated it, and offered us a great sale price. Then DAZ rewrote much of Bryce's code, and produced a Universal Binary version for the New Intel Macs as well. DAZ bought Hexagon, made some updates, and is working on the next version. DAZ bought Carrara and is also making updates. DAZ did us a favor by offering a great sale price. DAZ makes it easy for many of us to get great savings on software and content. Just join the PC Club, and save! DAZ is not pushing or intimidating us. DAZ could just as easily decided not to produce a program to give away for free. DAZ could just as easily have decided not to offer a thousand content items at $1.99 apiece. I know many of you are "Pros," and I really want to learn from you. I respect you. But I do think that some of your statements are not very accurate. I do think some of you would benefit from reading the DAZ forums, and participating in the chat events where DAZ informs us of their plans, etc. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

26th January 2007, 22:40	#21 (permalink)
Tunesy Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 75	Yea, I realize all that, Couerl. When it comes to humans I only use canned stuff for the same reasons you stated. Heck, I even think daz did a great job with V4. I bought it and am very happy with it. Perhaps I can word my concerns a little more precisely. I worry about the results if a programmer spends 20 hours in a week for traditiional Carrara development and 20 hours for 'daz centric features' instead of 40 hours strictly on traditional Carrara stuff. I don't need any 'daz centric features' and I'd bet a lot of other users feel the same way. Daz' software development history, well, it can't be sugar coated. However, it is good to know that they still have the original dev team. Maybe daz will turn the corner with software this time? That would be great. I'm not going to bet on that horse, but I'll be happy if it crosses the finish line.

27th January 2007, 00:53	#22 (permalink)
Patrick210 Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 549	I don't think it's a big surprise that DAZ would upgrade their content support in Carrara. Carrara is obviously a better place for people to render their content than Poser or DAZStudio. If improved content support gets more people to use Carrara, then it also then helps to perpetuate further development of all other aspects of Carrara. More users, more money, more development. I also know that in the past, every new version of Carrara has added a number of new "primary" features, so I wouldn't assume that better content support is all they'll have to offer in the next upgrade. (IMHO) DAZ wouldn't have retained the entire Carrara programming team if they didn't intend to continue to develop all aspects of Carrara. Patrick

27th January 2007, 01:31	#24 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Patrick, I agree. Better content support is OK with me. Carrara will get more market share this way. Having said that using Carrara as bait for memberships is not cool. Selling Carrara 6 Pro to everyone for $99.99 and not just Daz members as an early sales promo would be OK with me. Even more people would buy it. Daz just wants to make it look like their premade content is the best because they can bait more members now with Carrara. The sale of content is OK but the baiting is wrong. That is why I say Daz sucks.

27th January 2007, 01:53	#26 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	I understand, if anything though I think the opposite is true. Daz has more money than Eovia had, alot more (because of content and memberships and Vicki's etc...) and they've already added additional devs to Carrara that Eovia probably could not have afforded. I think not only will the feature set be a lot nicer in C6, but the cost will go down as well. 99% of the stuff I make in Hex and Carrara doesn't include any purchased content, but I do have some freebies like Aiko and I bought Hiro on sale and I would use them for a paid project or whatever without hesitation. All you have to do is publish a tut or something and that would just about pay for Vicki-4 and this community always needs more tuts anyway... It's not a bad idea for people who want to learn more or want nothing to do with the membership plan ... Say what you want about Daz and their development history or E-Frontier or Adobe or Autodesk or Corel... I make fun of them all the time too. But don't include the Devs, show them some respect and support because they work their butts off and have to eat just like you and me. Point is anyway that Carrara is still being developed by Charles and Arnaud and Pierre and a few others and they are some very sharp guys. They deserve more credit than I think they get sometimes and as for Daz's development history, they never had seasoned talent like this before. I expect E-Frontier will be very happy that they picked up the French Eovia team in the end as well. Both companies can only benefit as a result and between them there will be a lot of new features to come.

27th January 2007, 03:17	#28 (permalink)
ronjurman Box modeling Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 201	The type of fish you catch depends upon the bait you use.

27th January 2007, 04:27	#29 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Memberships are OK. Pushing it off on people like Daz does is almost blackmail in my opinion.

27th January 2007, 04:53	#30 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Hi Ronjurman, It's a fair question, I think myself its a split demographic at the moment and will be that way for awhile. 3D is hard and you can't take someone who's been using Daz-Studio or Poser for a year and turn them into a 3D-Guru over night. There are traditional "Eovian" all-around 3D artists who make most of their own content and the more "Daz-Centric" or "Poser-Centric" content only users and a lot of new users and users who have actually "downgraded" from more expensive platforms for the ease of use and value of Carrara. I also think that as the user base merges more we'll see good things come out of all of them and I think we already have in fact. It's easy to sit back and bash a content assembler or someone who can't model their own stuff, but some of the work I've seen by them is very nice and particularly so with texturing and lighting and such. Anyway, as that group learns Carrara and discovers its abilities I think we'll see them evolve as artists and want more than what Poser or Daz-Studio can deliver and the software will find a bigger niche somewhere between point and click and 3D-purist. That's when Carrara will really begin to shine I think and that is when it will see a user base maybe three or four times larger than what it is now. I'm happy I started using it when I did, (C2 era) and I got it cheap and have stayed with the upgrade path. Anyway, there's a lot of opportunity for Carrara to grow in this bigger arena and it doesn't matter much to me the bait they use, it's how they cook it. We're already seeing the larger Daz user base merge with the Eovia one and they're asking the same old questions we asked at one time and that's cool. As enthusiasm there builds so will the program, it's inevitable in my mind because Carrara has a magic all its own and no one demographic will ever be able to change that. I'm not worried about Carrara going decadent or becoming a content "only" handler, it won't. Conversely, it will never be Max or XSI or Maya either. I do know as long as that development team is in place that Carrara will continue to grow and get better and I think in the long run Daz will have made a great buy even if they don't quite understand what it is that they bought yet. On an aside, I was surfing around the net and looked up an old windows 95 video game I used to love called Descent-2 (Came out after Doom-1) and found the original 3D model for the PyroGX-11, which is the spaceship you flew in it and low and behold it was made in Ray Dream Studio-3, Carrara's grandfather and wouldn't you know it, C5 opened it up as a spline model without blinking twice. Long live Carrara...

27th January 2007, 04:56	#31 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	I know Med and that's one reason I'm not a member. Hehe, but they're not Nazi's about it either, you can pay for a month and get right back out. I did that with Hex-2 and I was happy, I grabbed a few other quick things while I was there and back I went to regular old member status. Nothing wrong with that either.

27th January 2007, 07:15	#35 (permalink)
Tunesy Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 75	That all sounds terrific, however, as the old expression goes: "I hear pretty good but I see real good." The ball is in daz' court. We're all looking forward to seeing what they deliver.

29th January 2007, 22:44	#37 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Oh blast, I'm steeped in mediocrity... The shame. ;)

1st February 2007, 10:36	#40 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Altered Ego, With all do respect to link Hexagon and Carrara to the Daz membership is black mail. I never joined the Platinum club before Daz bought Carrara, Why should I have to now? Daz should give everyone a good price not just Daz members. You use content so your view will be different than mine. Most of us Eovians were not already Daz members so it rubs us the wrong way. I used to use Bryce until Daz bought the program. The Bryce upgrades under Daz are a joke. Daz did you a favor but not all of us. That is something you have to accept. Do you think selling content for under $1.99 helps me in the least? New shoes for Vicki is a non issue for me and always will be.