Carrara Help file Alternative - Polyloop

bwtr · 21st January 2007, 03:50

With the difficulties some have in accessing the Help in Carrara it may be worthwhile reminding anyone interested that the excellent Carrara 5 printed Manual is still available at us$29 from DAZ.

The best way to save your own and others time.

medeamajic · 21st January 2007, 05:17

Or, if you do not want to help others learn Carrara you could cook eggs and bacon rather then spend time on these forums. The forums are supposed to be used to help one another out. If everyone new how to use Hexagon and Carrara 100% why would anyone come to the forums. I admit some folks might still come to show of their work which is OK as well.

bwtr · 21st January 2007, 06:14

Of course, then again, some people might consider forums are for clarification or additional assistance to add to knowlege gained from the accepted initial proper instructional sources that the product manufactures have gone to great trouble to produce.

If all else fails--read the instruction manual. FIRST!

medeamajic · 21st January 2007, 08:01

I think everyone does go to the manual first but I am not 100% sure. It is also better in most cases to post here because other forum members can give a little extra advise that is not in the manual. In other words the manual may show you how it is done but you can get other helpful suggestions in the forums.

bwtr · 21st January 2007, 08:16

Almost a small lifetime ago I was a major product manager for a large national organisation.

There was this young chap who got along famously with everyone. He studied furiously at night school and management was so impresed with his mounting CV quality that they paid for him to go to the very costly top management schools.

As always, he passed with flying colours.

As you can guess, before long he was given a senior management position within the company.

Within months, he was no longer employed. Management, at last, realised that, despite all his personality and qualifications, he was unable to self make decissions.

Now, the mesage behind this true story is-------

Couerl · 21st January 2007, 08:59

Are you guys still bickering?

Spend half as much time and energy practicing as you do picking eachother apart and you'd both be working for Disney in a year. ;)

The manual is great for showing you what a tool is and what it does, but it will never teach you to be a better artist or hobbyist or even to learn a new technique. That's where this forum is valuable. Its also a good place to see what other people think about different progams or to learn a new way of doing things and just enjoy other peoples art, knowledge, opinions and that sort of thing. I think its ok to let off steam or vent about things and even poke fun at eachother, but I ask to maintain a good atmosphere so we can all enjoy hanging out. Its been that way for a long time already so why not keep it that way okay? And by that I mean lets spend a little less time picking companies, software or even eachother apart and a little more time doing some work and getting some feedback and asking or answering questions that help the cause of 3D (whatever flavor) in a genuine manner.
Thomas said he was putting together a wikki or maybe a database or something similar, maybe you guys can help me put together a glossary of terms and general 2D and 3D definitions. "what is a coplanar facet"? for instance and what does that actually mean.
If you want to help out the forum you can start digging up definitions and saving them to text so I can prepare a database or wikki type of thing. I think this would help a lot of people too more than just saying look in the manual.

Couerl · 21st January 2007, 09:05

Oh and P.S., a good place to start actually is the Carrara glossary, but you'll notice it's missing a lot of things, especially related to newer tools and fatures, so anything in that category would be extremely helpful.

Let me know if you want to help out, I think it would be a good learning experience for all.

bwtr · 21st January 2007, 09:08

Agree!

One of the continuing problems in 3d communication is nomenclature and the lack of a good wicki dictionary.

It still seems that every app has a differnt name for a similar thing --it does not seem to trouble those who have been at it for a long time---even in Carrara and Hexagon there are problems with something having one name on the UI another in the Help and another or inapropriate heading in the index.

Now thats a good, full time job, for someone .

In Hex a point and Carrara a vertex! And my dictionary says its a vertex!

jones2000u · 22nd January 2007, 03:04

erm... hate to butt into a private fight, guys, but the Carrara help is a pdf, which you can open independentely through acrobat any time you like

eek aaagh don't hit me

bwtr · 22nd January 2007, 05:14

aaagh!--I love it. Will a day go without using?

Altered_Ego · 29th January 2007, 19:47

The Carrara manual is similar to the Poser manuals I've seen.

The manual does a good job of telling you all the tools. It does NOT tell you what to do with those tools.

I spent an hour or so looking at the Carrara manual before that finally hit me.

I can't just take the knowledge and put it into action. I need tutorials to take me through stuff, step by step, till I get the hang of it.

Everyone is different. Some folks can "Just Play" with a program, and become experts.

I "Played" with Poser for a few months before going to the Poser forums. I was totally shocked to see how little I really knew. Again, the manual did nothing to improve that situation.. and the tutorials were missing files, etc.

Some people can look at the manual's descriptions of tools, and automatically know what to do with that knowledge. Others can't.

In my Not So Humble Opinion, part of Forum Life is knowing that everyone has a different way of learning, and accepting that fact.

The biggest mistake I've seen over the years is when people just keep saying "Read the Manual." They just don't seem to really get the fact that many of us have read the manual... but it just doesn't help.

I think also that some folks really just come to the forums in order to show off their expertise, and to belittle those of us who just don't learn so fast.

I haven't been to this forum for awhile. My recollection says this forum is friendlier than some others I've seen.

I'm going to be looking at tutorials. I'll probably buy the Carrara book from Amazon.com, when I have the money.

In the meantime, I hope to get answers to my many questions.

Couerl · 29th January 2007, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altered_Ego

In my Not So Humble Opinion, part of Forum Life is knowing that everyone has a different way of learning, and accepting that fact.

The biggest mistake I've seen over the years is when people just keep saying "Read the Manual." They just don't seem to really get the fact that many of us have read the manual... but it just doesn't help.

I think also that some folks really just come to the forums in order to show off their expertise, and to belittle those of us who just don't learn so fast.

I haven't been to this forum for awhile. My recollection says this forum is friendlier than some others I've seen.

Yep, we all learn in different ways, I learned more from watching Steph3D Hexagon videos on the "hexagon in action" page at Eovia than the manual could ever teach me. I've read hundreds of manuals on all sorts of topics and they all have one thing in common, they never have the answer to the one question you are asking and for all practical purposes, I hate them and forget them the minute I put them down. ;)

Of-course they do and that's good, if no one "showed off" how would anyone else learn what was being done out there? I've learned more from showoffs than I ever have from a noob. If people are belittling for the sake of demonstrating their own superiority, then they need to be in a psychiatric forum, not a 3D one.

This forum is to help people learn 3D and no one person here has learned it all and no one ever will. I value the ideas and opinions of people that I consider my equals in skill or better and that's why I come here. It's nice to be around those you can help and get help from.

Altered_Ego · 29th January 2007, 21:34

One big handicap for me: I can't switch screens back and forth to watch videos or read PDF manuals.

I don't yet have a dual monitor setup... If I had one, that would help tremendously. Also, I think my computer may be just a tad shy of the power needed to work efficiently.

I've just looked at some Carrara tutes at DAZ's Tutorial Arcana. Sadly, too many details were incorrect... and some important tutes were missing.

One tute covered how to import your Poser character into Carrara.. left out one important screen. Then, when your character was in the scene, the tute ended!

Then there was an Advanced import tutorial Part Two.. but there was no part one!

Argh.

Oh, I don't mind people who know the program, and want to share their work or knowledge.

What I mind is "experts" who don't understand that not everyone can just read the manual and understand how to use the program.

bwtr · 29th January 2007, 23:56

As a printed manual user, pdf,s have allways driven me around the bend. No bookmark you can effectivly use--and I find it difficult to keep the pdf instructions in my head whilst I am actually applying the ideas.

I recently was given a second 17inch screen. Now pdf,s are great to use!

And I am saving having to print out pages of the pdfs regularly too.

Did I see someone saying they could understand the Poser Help Manuals? They, for me, keep on referring you to another page so often tha in no time I have fforgotten the question!

Altered_Ego · 30th January 2007, 00:43

I've found the Poser manuals to be useless.

When I got started, I couldn't find many good Poser tutorials.

So I asked a lot of questions, learned stuff, and start writing my own tutes.

jones2000u · 30th January 2007, 12:49

well, I've been using Adobe AI and PS since versions 4, Carrara since v3 and
Amapi since v5. I don't think I've ever bothered to actually read the manuals apart to find out what that funny little wiggle icon does. I don't mind that. The prog is a box of tools that you then do whatever you feel like with. The manual tells you which one the hammer is. And which way to point it.

All I do is, when I hit a problem, google the question and I am always amazed at what I sometimes dig up, like the tutorial on adding bones to a particle cube to make it stretch round a long curve in Carrara (I was trying to make a cartoon airplane jet stream at the time) and the one I found yesterday on what I was doing wrong in dynamic cloth. Funnily enough, that got fixed with Carrara as well.

And that's what these forums are for, I have found. Hit a snag, ask a question and get a handful of perfectly useful ideas from fellow users. Some even have that eureka factor. I can't see a manual of a few hundred pages covering even the tip of the iceberg. If anyone wants a real eyeball swiveller, I still have my Amapi 5 manual (pace to Amapi team!)

Waffle waffle.

Altered_Ego · 31st January 2007, 16:03

Actually, I believe most computer-related manuals could be written much better...

Actually, I tend to believe a Reference Manual is a waste for the average newbie user. It would make more sense to put the Reference Manual on a CD or DVD, and print out a Tutorial Book that would help people learn how to use the program.

jones2000u · 31st January 2007, 17:26

If it hasn't been done, it's a very nice idea. Take a wide selection of the clearest and most instructive tutorials and put them in one big starter bag of working examples. with pics and screen grabs and so forth. I wonder if it could be published? I could see a lot of trouble over royalties etc. Not being sarcastic, I really do think it's something I would buy.

Altered_Ego · 31st January 2007, 21:13

For the past 6 years, I've put together Poser tutorials which have been extremely helpful. I hope to eventually do the same for Carrara... when I learn it.

I've never thought of asking for payment... and wouldn't know how to go about putting together "a book."

These days, I think "Internet Publishing," (ebooks, etc.) make a lot of sense.

bwtr · 1st February 2007, 00:20

Having your finger on the line in question in a printed book is the only way to go still--for me!

21st January 2007, 03:50	#1 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Carrara Help file Alternative With the difficulties some have in accessing the Help in Carrara it may be worthwhile reminding anyone interested that the excellent Carrara 5 printed Manual is still available at us$29 from DAZ. The best way to save your own and others time.

29th January 2007, 19:47	#11 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	The Carrara manual is similar to the Poser manuals I've seen. The manual does a good job of telling you all the tools. It does NOT tell you what to do with those tools. I spent an hour or so looking at the Carrara manual before that finally hit me. I can't just take the knowledge and put it into action. I need tutorials to take me through stuff, step by step, till I get the hang of it. Everyone is different. Some folks can "Just Play" with a program, and become experts. I "Played" with Poser for a few months before going to the Poser forums. I was totally shocked to see how little I really knew. Again, the manual did nothing to improve that situation.. and the tutorials were missing files, etc. Some people can look at the manual's descriptions of tools, and automatically know what to do with that knowledge. Others can't. In my Not So Humble Opinion, part of Forum Life is knowing that everyone has a different way of learning, and accepting that fact. The biggest mistake I've seen over the years is when people just keep saying "Read the Manual." They just don't seem to really get the fact that many of us have read the manual... but it just doesn't help. I think also that some folks really just come to the forums in order to show off their expertise, and to belittle those of us who just don't learn so fast. I haven't been to this forum for awhile. My recollection says this forum is friendlier than some others I've seen. I'm going to be looking at tutorials. I'll probably buy the Carrara book from Amazon.com, when I have the money. In the meantime, I hope to get answers to my many questions. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/

29th January 2007, 21:34	#13 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	One big handicap for me: I can't switch screens back and forth to watch videos or read PDF manuals. I don't yet have a dual monitor setup... If I had one, that would help tremendously. Also, I think my computer may be just a tad shy of the power needed to work efficiently. I've just looked at some Carrara tutes at DAZ's Tutorial Arcana. Sadly, too many details were incorrect... and some important tutes were missing. One tute covered how to import your Poser character into Carrara.. left out one important screen. Then, when your character was in the scene, the tute ended! Then there was an Advanced import tutorial Part Two.. but there was no part one! Argh. Oh, I don't mind people who know the program, and want to share their work or knowledge. What I mind is "experts" who don't understand that not everyone can just read the manual and understand how to use the program. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/ Last edited by Altered_Ego; 29th January 2007 at 21:36. Reason: Forgetful

30th January 2007, 00:43	#15 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	I've found the Poser manuals to be useless. When I got started, I couldn't find many good Poser tutorials. So I asked a lot of questions, learned stuff, and start writing my own tutes. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/

31st January 2007, 16:03	#17 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	Actually, I believe most computer-related manuals could be written much better... Actually, I tend to believe a Reference Manual is a waste for the average newbie user. It would make more sense to put the Reference Manual on a CD or DVD, and print out a Tutorial Book that would help people learn how to use the program. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/

21st January 2007, 05:17	#2 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	Or, if you do not want to help others learn Carrara you could cook eggs and bacon rather then spend time on these forums. The forums are supposed to be used to help one another out. If everyone new how to use Hexagon and Carrara 100% why would anyone come to the forums. I admit some folks might still come to show of their work which is OK as well.

21st January 2007, 06:14	#3 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Of course, then again, some people might consider forums are for clarification or additional assistance to add to knowlege gained from the accepted initial proper instructional sources that the product manufactures have gone to great trouble to produce. If all else fails--read the instruction manual. FIRST!

21st January 2007, 08:01	#4 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	I think everyone does go to the manual first but I am not 100% sure. It is also better in most cases to post here because other forum members can give a little extra advise that is not in the manual. In other words the manual may show you how it is done but you can get other helpful suggestions in the forums.

21st January 2007, 08:16	#5 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Almost a small lifetime ago I was a major product manager for a large national organisation. There was this young chap who got along famously with everyone. He studied furiously at night school and management was so impresed with his mounting CV quality that they paid for him to go to the very costly top management schools. As always, he passed with flying colours. As you can guess, before long he was given a senior management position within the company. Within months, he was no longer employed. Management, at last, realised that, despite all his personality and qualifications, he was unable to self make decissions. Now, the mesage behind this true story is-------

21st January 2007, 08:59	#6 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Are you guys still bickering? Spend half as much time and energy practicing as you do picking eachother apart and you'd both be working for Disney in a year. ;) The manual is great for showing you what a tool is and what it does, but it will never teach you to be a better artist or hobbyist or even to learn a new technique. That's where this forum is valuable. Its also a good place to see what other people think about different progams or to learn a new way of doing things and just enjoy other peoples art, knowledge, opinions and that sort of thing. I think its ok to let off steam or vent about things and even poke fun at eachother, but I ask to maintain a good atmosphere so we can all enjoy hanging out. Its been that way for a long time already so why not keep it that way okay? And by that I mean lets spend a little less time picking companies, software or even eachother apart and a little more time doing some work and getting some feedback and asking or answering questions that help the cause of 3D (whatever flavor) in a genuine manner. Thomas said he was putting together a wikki or maybe a database or something similar, maybe you guys can help me put together a glossary of terms and general 2D and 3D definitions. "what is a coplanar facet"? for instance and what does that actually mean. If you want to help out the forum you can start digging up definitions and saving them to text so I can prepare a database or wikki type of thing. I think this would help a lot of people too more than just saying look in the manual.

21st January 2007, 09:05	#7 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,301	Oh and P.S., a good place to start actually is the Carrara glossary, but you'll notice it's missing a lot of things, especially related to newer tools and fatures, so anything in that category would be extremely helpful. Let me know if you want to help out, I think it would be a good learning experience for all.

21st January 2007, 09:08	#8 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Agree! One of the continuing problems in 3d communication is nomenclature and the lack of a good wicki dictionary. It still seems that every app has a differnt name for a similar thing --it does not seem to trouble those who have been at it for a long time---even in Carrara and Hexagon there are problems with something having one name on the UI another in the Help and another or inapropriate heading in the index. Now thats a good, full time job, for someone . In Hex a point and Carrara a vertex! And my dictionary says its a vertex!

22nd January 2007, 03:04	#9 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	erm... hate to butt into a private fight, guys, but the Carrara help is a pdf, which you can open independentely through acrobat any time you like eek aaagh don't hit me

22nd January 2007, 05:14	#10 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	aaagh!--I love it. Will a day go without using?

29th January 2007, 23:56	#14 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	As a printed manual user, pdf,s have allways driven me around the bend. No bookmark you can effectivly use--and I find it difficult to keep the pdf instructions in my head whilst I am actually applying the ideas. I recently was given a second 17inch screen. Now pdf,s are great to use! And I am saving having to print out pages of the pdfs regularly too. Did I see someone saying they could understand the Poser Help Manuals? They, for me, keep on referring you to another page so often tha in no time I have fforgotten the question!

30th January 2007, 12:49	#16 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	well, I've been using Adobe AI and PS since versions 4, Carrara since v3 and Amapi since v5. I don't think I've ever bothered to actually read the manuals apart to find out what that funny little wiggle icon does. I don't mind that. The prog is a box of tools that you then do whatever you feel like with. The manual tells you which one the hammer is. And which way to point it. All I do is, when I hit a problem, google the question and I am always amazed at what I sometimes dig up, like the tutorial on adding bones to a particle cube to make it stretch round a long curve in Carrara (I was trying to make a cartoon airplane jet stream at the time) and the one I found yesterday on what I was doing wrong in dynamic cloth. Funnily enough, that got fixed with Carrara as well. And that's what these forums are for, I have found. Hit a snag, ask a question and get a handful of perfectly useful ideas from fellow users. Some even have that eureka factor. I can't see a manual of a few hundred pages covering even the tip of the iceberg. If anyone wants a real eyeball swiveller, I still have my Amapi 5 manual (pace to Amapi team!) Waffle waffle.

31st January 2007, 17:26	#18 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	If it hasn't been done, it's a very nice idea. Take a wide selection of the clearest and most instructive tutorials and put them in one big starter bag of working examples. with pics and screen grabs and so forth. I wonder if it could be published? I could see a lot of trouble over royalties etc. Not being sarcastic, I really do think it's something I would buy.

31st January 2007, 21:13	#19 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	For the past 6 years, I've put together Poser tutorials which have been extremely helpful. I hope to eventually do the same for Carrara... when I learn it. I've never thought of asking for payment... and wouldn't know how to go about putting together "a book." These days, I think "Internet Publishing," (ebooks, etc.) make a lot of sense. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/

1st February 2007, 00:20	#20 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,094	Having your finger on the line in question in a printed book is the only way to go still--for me!

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