[Carrara]Carrara Help file Alternative - Page 2 - Polyloop

Altered_Ego · 1st February 2007, 00:55

Yes, I agree... However, I wouldn't consider myself capable of putting together the material for a computer book.

OscarX · 23rd February 2007, 03:47

I am the type that never start by reading manual. That proved to be rather difficult in demo of Carrara and impossible in demo of Hex (I couldn't do a damn thing there).
But then I saw commercial video tutorials for carrara, I think it was in Linda or some other tut site and by watching it just once - it become all suddenly clear enough how the basic of Carrara works, I could suddenly do most of the normal things, the next day I ordered full licence of Carrara.
This proves that a good video tutorial is 100x better jump start than anything else. Of course it doesn't give you everything, but it compress the first weeks of software exploring in just few hours. I don't rememer actually reading Carrara manuals afterwards - after the innitial 60% of video tut coverage, I can pretty much do the 40% on my own.

Another good example is the SketchUp. Their free video tutorials are simply perfect, I had never need to open the written manual. After watching the first few of them you know enough to do your own stuff.
Again that takes maybe 2 hours.

If companies create a good jump-start video (preferably free) they would save us a lot of headaches and would have also more custommers at the end (I would personally not buy Carrara if I had not watched the tutorial videos because by the previous experimenting on my own I thought that the software is clumsy and not very loggical. After watching the videos my opinion flipped 180.)

bwtr · 23rd February 2007, 04:24

You are all odd people from another generation! We oldies find sitting back with a REAL book a far better learning method than any movie!. I mean, can you, who have read a book, say that the movie version even came close to the inner fealings you had whilst reading?

A book in your hand, your finger on a passage,your stickies on special pages or paragraphs, those pages which you refer to offten almost opening on thier own. The pleasure of actually turning a page--the anticipation of what is to follow. Being able to stop reading and next day or week and being able to immedietly open the book exactly where you left off. Not having to do anything more than swithching on the reading lamp!

You all are missing some of the most important pleasures of life!

The thing about a book is that you have to both think--and use your imagination.
Very imoprtant aspects of survival in life!

Couerl · 23rd February 2007, 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwtr

You all are missing some of the most important pleasures of life!

Ya, like the horse instead of the BMW and killing your dinner with a spear instead of going to a restaurant or burning whale blubber instead of flicking a switch. ;)

For Shakespeare and Milton or keats, I totally agree,... For software and getting up to speed I'll take a video any day. The manuals are out of date by the time the print dries on them and then everybody whines becuse they don't have the new "UI" in them...

Pete Exxtreme · 23rd February 2007, 06:59

To me the main problem with printed doc is that it's black&white, while the UI are usually using colors, at least to show the current selection... so a B&W print totally miss this information, which makes a tutorial poorly understandable.

I would say that a full project tutorial should be in video, because it shows a full workflow and not the tools alone, and how the product behave live in action
In the meantime, an ehanced reference manual should be printed out (ehanced because it shows examples with screenshots of each specific tool), as at least at the beginning it's impossible to memorize all the tools behaviour, so you need a quick help, and not to watch at speed x8 some videos tutos and try to remember is which pne you've seen that's damn tool used while you're currently stuck on it...

Also printed manuals are a good way to learn self-paced all the subtle thing that you can find in some tools. A video tutorial usually does not cover all the options and parameters of complex tool. I do that quite often when i have a chance to take the train at work : i can read the LW manual (who said : Nerd

)... and it shows me things at did not saw in the DVD Kurv Studio tutorials i've seen at home....

So both, video and prints are great together

just my 2 cents

Piem · 23rd February 2007, 07:13

I vote for the PAPER too, sorry guys

, in the bed, in the toilet, in the bath, in a springfield, ~~in a car~~ no, not in a car.

bwtr · 23rd February 2007, 07:15

Couerl.

If you had ever taken your girlfriend out for the day in a horse and buggy. down all those car difficult side roads, oh boy!--who wants a BMW?

Piem · 23rd February 2007, 07:26

It's important to tell that The PRINT is the only way for many artworks to get REAL. exposable readable in Big on the walls-
Printed things are the knowledge and don't fear about a possible DNS servers black out - (da 13 magnificents) .
Plus, printed manuals smell the ink.. mmmmh

(Btw: I do like some of the bmw..but I still prefere my Honda Prelude 2000)

Couerl · 23rd February 2007, 07:43

hehe, okay, okay... Just don't complain too hard when version ten of Hexagon or Carrara looks the same as it does now with some scratched out stuff in it. ;)

I'm no book burner by the way, I love books. I just hate manuals.

I've read hundreds of them and they're all the same. They're all missing the one thing you are looking for when you need it and it's hidden deep in some thread someplace on Technet or Google every single time. ;) I read the Carrara 2 manual and never even opened the others, same with Hex. I learned more about modeling in 10 minutes watching Steph3d videos than I did in 3 years of reading stuff on the Yahoo list. Sometimes text isn't enough and maybe that's why they have both I guess.

zoulou · 24th February 2007, 02:04

Very good Couerl remark, I agree 100% with you!

bwtr · 24th February 2007, 03:17

Now,about the the Steph3d videos------WOW!!!

crazy wabbit · 28th February 2007, 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piem

I vote for the PAPER too, sorry guys

, in the bed, in the toilet, in the bath, in a springfield, ~~in a car~~ no, not in a car.

thats why you need a laptop

jones2000u · 1st March 2007, 02:07

nice one, Behzad - that made me laugh out loud

Sketchy · 1st March 2007, 04:12

I kind of agree with bwtr. You have to start somewhere, and that is on the operating instructions: where to access the tools, what they actually do and how to use them. You go to forums for clarification, lest you'd be accused of not doing your homework first, or being too lazy to dig deep. It also depends on the app. SketchUp is probably the only app where I didn't have to read anything. As easy as Hexagon seemed it was in the demos, I had a hard time figuring out the workflow's sequence, whether to pick that one first or this one before anything got executed. It also took time for me to figure the use of the Ctrl key.

One thing that I probably never be be able to figure, though, is how to set a VCR to record programs at a certain time and date even if I had read the manual for the nth time.

OscarX · 6th March 2007, 04:15

In near future all the info will be transferred into the cyberspace. Zeros and ones. No paper trail. Then a global catastrophe will hapen that will wipe out internet and then few thousand years later people will claim that we were all just bunch of shepperds and funny god worshippers.

bwtr · 6th March 2007, 04:35

Except those of us who were properly educated on real learning with paper books. It is our heritage that will rebuild the world--it will be us---the "educated" people who will be the new leaders.

"Educated" leaders did you here me say!!!!!

Well one must wishfull think.

REvans · 17th March 2007, 03:25

It seems to me that the manuals are written by people who are very familiar with the program and understand the ideas which they are trying to convey.

My experience is that manuals will tell you what a particular tool will do, but not an explanation of how to actually use the tool, emphasis here on use. To be fair, doing that would create volumes rather than a manual, simply because many tutorials would need to be included in the manual.

I always prefer to have a printed set of instructions rather than having to switch back and forth between help screens and the work. "A picture is worth a thousand words", and the more information on a subject the better. I spend a lot of time in the "trial and error" approach, because when you do get it right, there is a lot of satisfaction in figuring it out. But sometimes you need a little help to find the answer.

I recently worked through a tutorial by Mark Bremmer and that helped me immensely. I read and re-read the manual and just was not getting anywhere until the tutorial.

Many thanks to everyone writing tutorials, and those who are willing to share their expertise with the rest of us.

Rick

crazy wabbit · 21st March 2007, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couerl

Are you guys still bickering?

Spend half as much time and energy practicing as you do picking eachother apart and you'd both be working for Disney in a year. ;)

So it is not just me being a crazy wabbit

bwtr · 21st March 2007, 05:59

Now, in my printed book of words I don't think we have started gickering yet?

On one of the other threads the term "old farts" was suggested--knowledge comes from good book learning which we, in that category, will forever kick up a stink about to encourage! We are also called wrinklies--it's all that knowledge pouring out of our skins that does it.

Now if only I could remember what I did yesterday!

1st February 2007, 00:55	#21 (permalink)
Altered_Ego NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135	Yes, I agree... However, I wouldn't consider myself capable of putting together the material for a computer book. __________________ My Site: http://www.ronknights.com/ My Forum: http://www.ronknights.com/forum/

23rd February 2007, 06:59	#25 (permalink)
Pete Exxtreme Lick it up Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Thonon/France Posts: 4,615 Images: 21	To me the main problem with printed doc is that it's black&white, while the UI are usually using colors, at least to show the current selection... so a B&W print totally miss this information, which makes a tutorial poorly understandable. I would say that a full project tutorial should be in video, because it shows a full workflow and not the tools alone, and how the product behave live in action In the meantime, an ehanced reference manual should be printed out (ehanced because it shows examples with screenshots of each specific tool), as at least at the beginning it's impossible to memorize all the tools behaviour, so you need a quick help, and not to watch at speed x8 some videos tutos and try to remember is which pne you've seen that's damn tool used while you're currently stuck on it... Also printed manuals are a good way to learn self-paced all the subtle thing that you can find in some tools. A video tutorial usually does not cover all the options and parameters of complex tool. I do that quite often when i have a chance to take the train at work : i can read the LW manual (who said : Nerd )... and it shows me things at did not saw in the DVD Kurv Studio tutorials i've seen at home.... So both, video and prints are great together just my 2 cents __________________ Toute faute de frappe ou erreur de syntaxe sont dues a un clavier rebelle à toute forme d'autorité. LightWave 9 \| Hexagon 2 My gallery

17th March 2007, 03:25	#37 (permalink)
REvans Rick Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 10	Manuals It seems to me that the manuals are written by people who are very familiar with the program and understand the ideas which they are trying to convey. My experience is that manuals will tell you what a particular tool will do, but not an explanation of how to actually use the tool, emphasis here on use. To be fair, doing that would create volumes rather than a manual, simply because many tutorials would need to be included in the manual. I always prefer to have a printed set of instructions rather than having to switch back and forth between help screens and the work. "A picture is worth a thousand words", and the more information on a subject the better. I spend a lot of time in the "trial and error" approach, because when you do get it right, there is a lot of satisfaction in figuring it out. But sometimes you need a little help to find the answer. I recently worked through a tutorial by Mark Bremmer and that helped me immensely. I read and re-read the manual and just was not getting anywhere until the tutorial. Many thanks to everyone writing tutorials, and those who are willing to share their expertise with the rest of us. Rick

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23rd February 2007, 03:47	#22 (permalink)
OscarX Vertex Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 18	I am the type that never start by reading manual. That proved to be rather difficult in demo of Carrara and impossible in demo of Hex (I couldn't do a damn thing there). But then I saw commercial video tutorials for carrara, I think it was in Linda or some other tut site and by watching it just once - it become all suddenly clear enough how the basic of Carrara works, I could suddenly do most of the normal things, the next day I ordered full licence of Carrara. This proves that a good video tutorial is 100x better jump start than anything else. Of course it doesn't give you everything, but it compress the first weeks of software exploring in just few hours. I don't rememer actually reading Carrara manuals afterwards - after the innitial 60% of video tut coverage, I can pretty much do the 40% on my own. Another good example is the SketchUp. Their free video tutorials are simply perfect, I had never need to open the written manual. After watching the first few of them you know enough to do your own stuff. Again that takes maybe 2 hours. If companies create a good jump-start video (preferably free) they would save us a lot of headaches and would have also more custommers at the end (I would personally not buy Carrara if I had not watched the tutorial videos because by the previous experimenting on my own I thought that the software is clumsy and not very loggical. After watching the videos my opinion flipped 180.)

23rd February 2007, 04:24	#23 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	You are all odd people from another generation! We oldies find sitting back with a REAL book a far better learning method than any movie!. I mean, can you, who have read a book, say that the movie version even came close to the inner fealings you had whilst reading? A book in your hand, your finger on a passage,your stickies on special pages or paragraphs, those pages which you refer to offten almost opening on thier own. The pleasure of actually turning a page--the anticipation of what is to follow. Being able to stop reading and next day or week and being able to immedietly open the book exactly where you left off. Not having to do anything more than swithching on the reading lamp! You all are missing some of the most important pleasures of life! The thing about a book is that you have to both think--and use your imagination. Very imoprtant aspects of survival in life!

23rd February 2007, 07:13	#26 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,586	I vote for the PAPER too, sorry guys , in the bed, in the toilet, in the bath, in a springfield, ~~in a car~~ no, not in a car.

23rd February 2007, 07:15	#27 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	Couerl. If you had ever taken your girlfriend out for the day in a horse and buggy. down all those car difficult side roads, oh boy!--who wants a BMW?

23rd February 2007, 07:26	#28 (permalink)
Piem Booh! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rennes/fr Posts: 6,586	It's important to tell that The PRINT is the only way for many artworks to get REAL. exposable readable in Big on the walls- Printed things are the knowledge and don't fear about a possible DNS servers black out - (da 13 magnificents) . Plus, printed manuals smell the ink.. mmmmh (Btw: I do like some of the bmw..but I still prefere my Honda Prelude 2000)

23rd February 2007, 07:43	#29 (permalink)
Couerl Polygurbs Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 1,292 Images: 6	hehe, okay, okay... Just don't complain too hard when version ten of Hexagon or Carrara looks the same as it does now with some scratched out stuff in it. ;) I'm no book burner by the way, I love books. I just hate manuals. I've read hundreds of them and they're all the same. They're all missing the one thing you are looking for when you need it and it's hidden deep in some thread someplace on Technet or Google every single time. ;) I read the Carrara 2 manual and never even opened the others, same with Hex. I learned more about modeling in 10 minutes watching Steph3d videos than I did in 3 years of reading stuff on the Yahoo list. Sometimes text isn't enough and maybe that's why they have both I guess.

24th February 2007, 02:04	#30 (permalink)
zoulou Spline Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Montréal Québec Canada Posts: 35 Images: 20	Very good Couerl remark, I agree 100% with you!

24th February 2007, 03:17	#31 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	Now,about the the Steph3d videos------WOW!!!

1st March 2007, 02:07	#33 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 122	nice one, Behzad - that made me laugh out loud

1st March 2007, 04:12	#34 (permalink)
Sketchy Box modeling Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 317	I kind of agree with bwtr. You have to start somewhere, and that is on the operating instructions: where to access the tools, what they actually do and how to use them. You go to forums for clarification, lest you'd be accused of not doing your homework first, or being too lazy to dig deep. It also depends on the app. SketchUp is probably the only app where I didn't have to read anything. As easy as Hexagon seemed it was in the demos, I had a hard time figuring out the workflow's sequence, whether to pick that one first or this one before anything got executed. It also took time for me to figure the use of the Ctrl key. One thing that I probably never be be able to figure, though, is how to set a VCR to record programs at a certain time and date even if I had read the manual for the nth time.

6th March 2007, 04:15	#35 (permalink)
OscarX Vertex Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 18	In near future all the info will be transferred into the cyberspace. Zeros and ones. No paper trail. Then a global catastrophe will hapen that will wipe out internet and then few thousand years later people will claim that we were all just bunch of shepperds and funny god worshippers.

6th March 2007, 04:35	#36 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	Except those of us who were properly educated on real learning with paper books. It is our heritage that will rebuild the world--it will be us---the "educated" people who will be the new leaders. "Educated" leaders did you here me say!!!!! Well one must wishfull think.

21st March 2007, 05:59	#39 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,068 Images: 49	Now, in my printed book of words I don't think we have started gickering yet? On one of the other threads the term "old farts" was suggested--knowledge comes from good book learning which we, in that category, will forever kick up a stink about to encourage! We are also called wrinklies--it's all that knowledge pouring out of our skins that does it. Now if only I could remember what I did yesterday!