Carrara and I what to do? - Polyloop

crazy wabbit · 18th December 2006, 01:41

Hi guys, well here is the honest truth. I bought Carrara 5 before the takeover. Well I have not gotten to it yet so my knowledge of it is very minimum. My question is this, Should I learn it or put the time and energy learning another software that I can upgrade and grow with.

I am just too afraid that the future of it is uncertain and I do not want it to be a learning step cause I already took that path with Truespace. I want to get into it and remain with it for years.

Your suggestions will be appreciated.

bwtr · 18th December 2006, 01:53

Maybe, with all the learning you have to do and the full capabilities of Carrara5 (Pro Especially) it may take you years to become fully conversant, and then, still find it is all you will ever need!

crazy wabbit · 18th December 2006, 02:11

Really? What if by then other software have technology that carrara does not?

corzair · 18th December 2006, 02:20

Learning Carrara still good Idea

I've learnt about surface modeling by using the splines editor for example
theres also lots of general 3D knowlege to gained by going through all the xtractor magazines and all the other tutorials on this site

learn the principles, that should all be transferable
thats what i'm edvouring to do...

markbremmer · 18th December 2006, 02:24

Carrara is amazingly capable, especially for the price. It will be worth your time to stick with it and learn it. It's not going to go away anytime soon.

There is no one perfect 3d package in my experience, nor in the studios I work with. Multiple 3d programs in a single studio is typical because they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. I do work with other programs myself for that reason. However, Carrara is the main workhorse in my shop and will continue to be for some time.

There is a saying in the wild west that goes, "Beware of the man that carries one gun." Success in 3d is usually more about how well you know your software rather than the software itself.

Just the crazed ravings of a lunatic madman here...

medeamajic · 18th December 2006, 02:40

behazed,

I also had True Space. I bought True Space during Carrara version 1 because Carrara version 1 did not have bones. Later version 2 got bones but it could not morph so TS was better for figure animation. Once I bought Carrara 4 wiht bones and morphing I sold my True Space with no regrets at the time. Carrara 5 was a decent upgrade and I also bought Hexagon. I thought Eovia was going to out shine Maya very soon. I no longer feel the same way about Carrara and Hexagon because of the Daz buy out. Like other have said XSI Foundation and LightWave are priced about the same as Carrara and Hexagon together.

My only advice is to learn Carrara 5.1 since you already bought it you might as well use it. While Carrara 5 is a very good program with many great features the competition does not sleep. If there is no word of Carrara 6 by March 2007 I say invest in LightWave or XSI because I will be doing the same thing but if Carrara 6 gets hair, cloth, symmetrical modeling, 3-D paint and better animation previews I will consider it a great upgrade and a very good program compared to LightWave and even Maya.

crazy wabbit · 18th December 2006, 02:45

So far good points guys. Hmmmm
You know something, I guess you guys are right, the renderings I seen done with carrara is as good as any other packages. I think it is the artist that makes the image. It is the competition that is tempting that is why I was looking at other options, but why not use what I have.

Caligari people waited a long time for ts7 and now that they have it, they are still waiting for the animation part of it to kick in, I guess we should be thankful for having carrara.

LoneGunman · 18th December 2006, 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by behzad

Well I have not gotten to it yet so my knowledge of it is very minimum. My question is this, Should I learn it or put the time and energy learning another software that I can upgrade and grow with.

So, what 3D software you are actually putting your time and energy in at the moment ?

jbshorty · 18th December 2006, 07:15

Hi Behzad. There is no promise for a future version of ANY software. Regardless of what happens after Carrara 6, the skills you learn from one app will never be wasted because the fundamentals of most programs are similar. Learning C5 is not a waste of your time. But not learning it would certainly be a waste of your money...

shorty

crazy wabbit · 18th December 2006, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneGunman

So, what 3D software you are actually putting your time and energy in at the moment ?

At the moment I learned Hex. Yet to produce something with it.

jones2000u · 19th December 2006, 01:50

I get the feeling that there is a lot of bad publicity and rumour following the Daz purchase of Carrara and I don't really understand why. Sure, Daz is a commercial site and they make their main money from selling add-on figures and models. That seems to me a good and profitable extension of their 3d core business - and it encourages software development to at least keep up with the competition. Bryce, for example, has been well supported since it was bought from Kai and friends - and upgrades have been offered relatively frequently at sometimes stupid prices. There is no reason to suppose that Carrara won't be looked after just as well.

Perhaps part of the problem lies in the user community - Poser and Bryce have loads of fanatical fans who are happily uploading free models and tutorials on a regular basis. Carrara has....erm....well, you need to look in specialist Carrara forums like this one for the good stuff. Now that IS strange, given that Carrara has transposer. And it's a lot easier to colour in than Poser is!

Carrara is a shit-hot modelling and rendering programme for the price you pay for it, so I personally would stick with it and learn through experience. After all, any learning experience to do with 3d translates pretty well into other programmes, so once you are used to the way 3d works in general, then you can make a decision based on your own personal use of the 3d tools, rather than go looking for tools that look like they can do the work for you.

For me, the best part of 3d is that it is a LOT of fun and I am quite amazed when I look at the renderings on the mudbox gallery. For now, though, I am quite happy trying to learn how to make a nose appear out of an irregular trapezoid dingbat and... oh no where's the camera gone....aaagh

medeamajic · 19th December 2006, 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones2000u

Bryce, for example, has been well supported since it was bought from Kai and friends - and upgrades have been offered relatively frequently at sometimes stupid prices. There is no reason to suppose that Carrara won't be looked after just as well.

Bryce has not matured well at all under Daz that is why it is selling for so cheap. I do not want Carrara to end up like Bryce. That is what scares us. Bryce 6? Where are the bones, skeletons, modeling systems? Who cares if Bryce is cheap. It ain't no Carrara or XSI and it takes to long for Daz to make upgrades.

jones2000u · 19th December 2006, 12:21

well, I'm sorry you feel that way, medeamajic

I think Bruce and Poser do exactly what they are meant to do - without bones, skeletons and modelling systems. People still seem to do some amazing stuff, if you check out the galleries.

As far as I am concerned, Carrara is capable of producing really high class work if the person using it is capable of producing... So I am not too bothered if it takes a year or two for another upgrade. I'm still at bottom end learning (to get back to Behzad's original question) so if I get anywhere near as good as Mr Bremmer and many of the artists who put stuff up here, I will be a very happy bunny!

medeamajic · 19th December 2006, 12:52

jones2000u,

I am sure mark bremmer would agree that symmetrical modeling would be a big plus for Carrara as well as 3-D paint, and a hair and cloth editor. If you are a begginer then Bryce is a good place to start. Most of us have left Bryce and Poser for Carrara. If you read my post you will find I owned RDS, Bryce and Poser back in the MetaCreations days. What you do not know is that Bryce has not matured as well as Carrara. Some of the blame can go to Corel but much of it needs to be placed with Daz. I hope you can accept the truth. It is not how I feel but actaul fact about Bryce and Carrara. Bryce was at version 5 five years ago. Carrara is now at 5 waiting for 6. Carrara has had a lot more upgrades than Bryce over the years. Daz charged for the 5.5 upgrade. It should have been a free download. Carrara is very powerful but symmetrical modeling would put it over the edge. There is Project Gemini but I am almost certain Carrara 6 will have it built into the GUI. As of now I use Hexagon for symmetrical modeling.

aether · 19th December 2006, 17:17

I think a lot of anxiety will go away if DAZ sets up a separate Carrara section on their site, accessible directly from the home page (or better yet a separate Carrara site) that truly promotes the program. Here they can address updates, new features, a Carrara user forum (perhaps) … whatever. Right now, it seems to be playing second fiddle to Bryce, which is terribly unfortunate. Additionally, the name Carrara PRO has some implications of use in the professional realm – sorry, but Bryce is not (and will most probably never be) held in such esteem. As another former Bryce user who has moved on, that 5 year lapse between versions 5 and 6 was what really crippled the application, it really was a great program for hobbyists back in the day.
Back to the DAZ, if I recommended Carrara professionally and someone checked for it on the DAZ site, my credibility would be SHOT instantly – for after meeting Victoria and a slew of accessories, the individual probably wouldn't be motivated to try to locate it under that one little 'software' link, listed right under … you guessed it … Bryce. This is just really bad marketing and promotion (sad to say). Anyway, hopefully Carrara will be around for a long time and (more importantly) hopefully it will be worth the wait for upgrades. I trust they knew that the software market is viscious, when they decided to make the purchase, so they should appreciate the need for urgency [unless of course they intended to downgrade it and merge it with Daz|Studio to meet the relatively limited modeling needs of their membership … Naww, that would be just too stupid].

Best wishes to everyone for the holidays. Happy New Year to One and ALL!!

crazy wabbit · 19th December 2006, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones2000u

so if I get anywhere near as good as Mr Bremmer and many of the artists who put stuff up here, I will be a very happy bunny!

Sure would, Right now I am crazy bunny.
Playing crazy rayman raving rabbids, I like their scream.

Tunesy · 20th December 2006, 01:33

"...Should I learn it or put the time and energy learning another software that I can upgrade and grow with. I am just too afraid that the future of it is uncertain..." You hit the nail on the head, behzad. I don't know the answer to that question, but daz' history of software development does not make me optimistic. I'll 'give them the benefit of the doubt' till the next upgrade, but in the mean time I'm seriously eyeballing XSI now that it's within range of the hobbyist. I think a lot of us were quite unhappy when daz bought Carrara.

LoneGunman · 20th December 2006, 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by aether

...Additionally, the name Carrara PRO has some implications of use in the professional realm – sorry, but Bryce is not (and will most probably never be) held in such esteem...

Slapping suffix PRO to Carrara's name does not make it part of professional realm (expecially if under owneraship of DAZ

), neither it makes PaintShopPro part of it as well. Silo does not have it, but it IS used in professional world often...

I guess it depends a lot on how much software is appreciated by people who do CG for living.

jones2000u · 20th December 2006, 03:03

well that's better! Some positive discussion going on here!

My point is this: Daz have no real reason to bury Carrara, otherwise, why buy it from Eovia? And even if they do mess it up, the learning that I am getting out of using it as an add-on to my professional work, means that I have enjoyed more than 2 years of experience in a prog that I have found to be user-friendly and down-to-earth and more than capable of visualising my ideas for my clients (well, they seem to be happy anyway). And finally, if you mean Daz's website does not look as classy (eg, like Eovia's was), that is just being a snob. Look for the tools, not the colour of the box!

When it comes to Pro stuff, as Lone Gunman says, the name 'Pro' means nothing in the real studio world, just whether it works or not. Beyond that is price. As a one-man studio, I can't afford Maya or Mudbox, so I am happy to work with the tools I can afford.

And lastly, I still think Bryce is a bundle of fun to play with, and I still think that's what it's there for. Metacreations had a trademark of producing wacky software (remember Kai's power goo?) that was just plain FUN. I think there is no need to take that away from it. and as Captain Kirk MUST have said more than once: ENJOY!

PS thank you , aether, for reminding us that it's happy christmas time, so Happy Christmas to everyone here on this forum!!!

Tunesy · 20th December 2006, 03:40

...I'll bring it up since nobody else has. For some reason we're missing the forest for the trees. The fact that 'we already own Carrara', or 'we can take the skills somewhere else later' isn't the point. The point is time. Time spent to learn and improve on any app. The value of the time we spend with our 3d apps far exceeds the actual cost of the apps for most of us, even the casual hobbyist. For example, let's play devils advocate and say daz doesn't put out C6 for two years from the time they bought it, which could happen (or not). Let's say it gets the same degree of upgrades that Bryce has gotten during that time and, after that two years, the community is bummed out that we've been spending our time with Carrara to begin with. If that turns out to be the case then we'd wish we could turn back the clock and just buy XSI right now. We'd much rather have spent that two years improving skills with an app that's going places. In fairness to daz though, maybe that won't be the case and they'll put out a nice upgrade. We users have to make a judgment call. We're not going to stand still. Do we wait for daz and see if we're happy with what they do, or, do we move on? I haven't decided yet, but I'm going to decide in the next few months.

18th December 2006, 01:41	#1 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	Carrara and I what to do? Hi guys, well here is the honest truth. I bought Carrara 5 before the takeover. Well I have not gotten to it yet so my knowledge of it is very minimum. My question is this, Should I learn it or put the time and energy learning another software that I can upgrade and grow with. I am just too afraid that the future of it is uncertain and I do not want it to be a learning step cause I already took that path with Truespace. I want to get into it and remain with it for years. Your suggestions will be appreciated.

18th December 2006, 02:20	#4 (permalink)
corzair Cube Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Manchester, England, UK Posts: 81	Learning Carrara still good Idea I've learnt about surface modeling by using the splines editor for example theres also lots of general 3D knowlege to gained by going through all the xtractor magazines and all the other tutorials on this site learn the principles, that should all be transferable thats what i'm edvouring to do... __________________ "If the universe is like an ocean, then humans have only just set foot on the beach."

18th December 2006, 02:24	#5 (permalink)
markbremmer Escaping to 3D worlds... Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 176	Carrara is amazingly capable, especially for the price. It will be worth your time to stick with it and learn it. It's not going to go away anytime soon. There is no one perfect 3d package in my experience, nor in the studios I work with. Multiple 3d programs in a single studio is typical because they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. I do work with other programs myself for that reason. However, Carrara is the main workhorse in my shop and will continue to be for some time. There is a saying in the wild west that goes, "Beware of the man that carries one gun." Success in 3d is usually more about how well you know your software rather than the software itself. Just the crazed ravings of a lunatic madman here... __________________ Mark Bremmer Beginner, intermediate and advanced Carrara tutorials are here.

20th December 2006, 03:03	#19 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	well that's better! Some positive discussion going on here! My point is this: Daz have no real reason to bury Carrara, otherwise, why buy it from Eovia? And even if they do mess it up, the learning that I am getting out of using it as an add-on to my professional work, means that I have enjoyed more than 2 years of experience in a prog that I have found to be user-friendly and down-to-earth and more than capable of visualising my ideas for my clients (well, they seem to be happy anyway). And finally, if you mean Daz's website does not look as classy (eg, like Eovia's was), that is just being a snob. Look for the tools, not the colour of the box! When it comes to Pro stuff, as Lone Gunman says, the name 'Pro' means nothing in the real studio world, just whether it works or not. Beyond that is price. As a one-man studio, I can't afford Maya or Mudbox, so I am happy to work with the tools I can afford. And lastly, I still think Bryce is a bundle of fun to play with, and I still think that's what it's there for. Metacreations had a trademark of producing wacky software (remember Kai's power goo?) that was just plain FUN. I think there is no need to take that away from it. and as Captain Kirk MUST have said more than once: ENJOY! PS thank you , aether, for reminding us that it's happy christmas time, so Happy Christmas to everyone here on this forum!!! Last edited by jones2000u; 20th December 2006 at 03:08. Reason: big mouth

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18th December 2006, 01:53	#2 (permalink)
bwtr Brian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Australia Posts: 2,097	Maybe, with all the learning you have to do and the full capabilities of Carrara5 (Pro Especially) it may take you years to become fully conversant, and then, still find it is all you will ever need!

18th December 2006, 02:11	#3 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	Really? What if by then other software have technology that carrara does not?

18th December 2006, 02:40	#6 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	behazed, I also had True Space. I bought True Space during Carrara version 1 because Carrara version 1 did not have bones. Later version 2 got bones but it could not morph so TS was better for figure animation. Once I bought Carrara 4 wiht bones and morphing I sold my True Space with no regrets at the time. Carrara 5 was a decent upgrade and I also bought Hexagon. I thought Eovia was going to out shine Maya very soon. I no longer feel the same way about Carrara and Hexagon because of the Daz buy out. Like other have said XSI Foundation and LightWave are priced about the same as Carrara and Hexagon together. My only advice is to learn Carrara 5.1 since you already bought it you might as well use it. While Carrara 5 is a very good program with many great features the competition does not sleep. If there is no word of Carrara 6 by March 2007 I say invest in LightWave or XSI because I will be doing the same thing but if Carrara 6 gets hair, cloth, symmetrical modeling, 3-D paint and better animation previews I will consider it a great upgrade and a very good program compared to LightWave and even Maya.

18th December 2006, 02:45	#7 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	So far good points guys. Hmmmm You know something, I guess you guys are right, the renderings I seen done with carrara is as good as any other packages. I think it is the artist that makes the image. It is the competition that is tempting that is why I was looking at other options, but why not use what I have. Caligari people waited a long time for ts7 and now that they have it, they are still waiting for the animation part of it to kick in, I guess we should be thankful for having carrara.

18th December 2006, 07:15	#9 (permalink)
jbshorty proud to be a nurb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: only in your mind Posts: 1,376	Hi Behzad. There is no promise for a future version of ANY software. Regardless of what happens after Carrara 6, the skills you learn from one app will never be wasted because the fundamentals of most programs are similar. Learning C5 is not a waste of your time. But not learning it would certainly be a waste of your money... shorty

19th December 2006, 01:50	#11 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	I get the feeling that there is a lot of bad publicity and rumour following the Daz purchase of Carrara and I don't really understand why. Sure, Daz is a commercial site and they make their main money from selling add-on figures and models. That seems to me a good and profitable extension of their 3d core business - and it encourages software development to at least keep up with the competition. Bryce, for example, has been well supported since it was bought from Kai and friends - and upgrades have been offered relatively frequently at sometimes stupid prices. There is no reason to suppose that Carrara won't be looked after just as well. Perhaps part of the problem lies in the user community - Poser and Bryce have loads of fanatical fans who are happily uploading free models and tutorials on a regular basis. Carrara has....erm....well, you need to look in specialist Carrara forums like this one for the good stuff. Now that IS strange, given that Carrara has transposer. And it's a lot easier to colour in than Poser is! Carrara is a shit-hot modelling and rendering programme for the price you pay for it, so I personally would stick with it and learn through experience. After all, any learning experience to do with 3d translates pretty well into other programmes, so once you are used to the way 3d works in general, then you can make a decision based on your own personal use of the 3d tools, rather than go looking for tools that look like they can do the work for you. For me, the best part of 3d is that it is a LOT of fun and I am quite amazed when I look at the renderings on the mudbox gallery. For now, though, I am quite happy trying to learn how to make a nose appear out of an irregular trapezoid dingbat and... oh no where's the camera gone....aaagh

19th December 2006, 12:21	#13 (permalink)
jones2000u NURBS Booleans are your friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 134	well, I'm sorry you feel that way, medeamajic I think Bruce and Poser do exactly what they are meant to do - without bones, skeletons and modelling systems. People still seem to do some amazing stuff, if you check out the galleries. As far as I am concerned, Carrara is capable of producing really high class work if the person using it is capable of producing... So I am not too bothered if it takes a year or two for another upgrade. I'm still at bottom end learning (to get back to Behzad's original question) so if I get anywhere near as good as Mr Bremmer and many of the artists who put stuff up here, I will be a very happy bunny!

19th December 2006, 12:52	#14 (permalink)
medeamajic Now, I learn animation Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,028	jones2000u, I am sure mark bremmer would agree that symmetrical modeling would be a big plus for Carrara as well as 3-D paint, and a hair and cloth editor. If you are a begginer then Bryce is a good place to start. Most of us have left Bryce and Poser for Carrara. If you read my post you will find I owned RDS, Bryce and Poser back in the MetaCreations days. What you do not know is that Bryce has not matured as well as Carrara. Some of the blame can go to Corel but much of it needs to be placed with Daz. I hope you can accept the truth. It is not how I feel but actaul fact about Bryce and Carrara. Bryce was at version 5 five years ago. Carrara is now at 5 waiting for 6. Carrara has had a lot more upgrades than Bryce over the years. Daz charged for the 5.5 upgrade. It should have been a free download. Carrara is very powerful but symmetrical modeling would put it over the edge. There is Project Gemini but I am almost certain Carrara 6 will have it built into the GUI. As of now I use Hexagon for symmetrical modeling.

19th December 2006, 17:17	#15 (permalink)
aether plasmatic vortex Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 23	I think a lot of anxiety will go away if DAZ sets up a separate Carrara section on their site, accessible directly from the home page (or better yet a separate Carrara site) that truly promotes the program. Here they can address updates, new features, a Carrara user forum (perhaps) … whatever. Right now, it seems to be playing second fiddle to Bryce, which is terribly unfortunate. Additionally, the name Carrara PRO has some implications of use in the professional realm – sorry, but Bryce is not (and will most probably never be) held in such esteem. As another former Bryce user who has moved on, that 5 year lapse between versions 5 and 6 was what really crippled the application, it really was a great program for hobbyists back in the day. Back to the DAZ, if I recommended Carrara professionally and someone checked for it on the DAZ site, my credibility would be SHOT instantly – for after meeting Victoria and a slew of accessories, the individual probably wouldn't be motivated to try to locate it under that one little 'software' link, listed right under … you guessed it … Bryce. This is just really bad marketing and promotion (sad to say). Anyway, hopefully Carrara will be around for a long time and (more importantly) hopefully it will be worth the wait for upgrades. I trust they knew that the software market is viscious, when they decided to make the purchase, so they should appreciate the need for urgency [unless of course they intended to downgrade it and merge it with Daz\|Studio to meet the relatively limited modeling needs of their membership … Naww, that would be just too stupid]. Best wishes to everyone for the holidays. Happy New Year to One and ALL!!

20th December 2006, 01:33	#17 (permalink)
Tunesy Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 75	"...Should I learn it or put the time and energy learning another software that I can upgrade and grow with. I am just too afraid that the future of it is uncertain..." You hit the nail on the head, behzad. I don't know the answer to that question, but daz' history of software development does not make me optimistic. I'll 'give them the benefit of the doubt' till the next upgrade, but in the mean time I'm seriously eyeballing XSI now that it's within range of the hobbyist. I think a lot of us were quite unhappy when daz bought Carrara.

20th December 2006, 03:40	#20 (permalink)
Tunesy Cube Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 75	...I'll bring it up since nobody else has. For some reason we're missing the forest for the trees. The fact that 'we already own Carrara', or 'we can take the skills somewhere else later' isn't the point. The point is time. Time spent to learn and improve on any app. The value of the time we spend with our 3d apps far exceeds the actual cost of the apps for most of us, even the casual hobbyist. For example, let's play devils advocate and say daz doesn't put out C6 for two years from the time they bought it, which could happen (or not). Let's say it gets the same degree of upgrades that Bryce has gotten during that time and, after that two years, the community is bummed out that we've been spending our time with Carrara to begin with. If that turns out to be the case then we'd wish we could turn back the clock and just buy XSI right now. We'd much rather have spent that two years improving skills with an app that's going places. In fairness to daz though, maybe that won't be the case and they'll put out a nice upgrade. We users have to make a judgment call. We're not going to stand still. Do we wait for daz and see if we're happy with what they do, or, do we move on? I haven't decided yet, but I'm going to decide in the next few months.