Carrara and I what to do?

[LoneGunman]

Who is standing still ?

People who do not use it enough, that is...

Trust me, mastering Carrara5 WILL help you get easier into ANY other software (just as mastering Bryce helped me get into Carrara), regardless if you make switch in 2 months or 2 years (Z-Brush may be exception, cuz it's sooo different)... It's only logical that you should make a switch when you are ready, not when application starts to fall into oblivion (this will save you tons of money as well)

[Tunesy]

...zoom...you missed the point completely, LoneGunman ;)

[LoneGunman]

Lol, nope, I was actually making my own !

[crazy wabbit]

I am just a poor Wabbit trying to get a carrot.
I did not know my little post would stir such commotion. :P

[ronjurman]

Originally Posted by Tunesy

...zoom...you missed the point completely, LoneGunman ;)

I don't think he particularly missed it. I believe he's pointing out (apologies, if mistaken) that for most of us non-pros that Carrara 5 doesn't suffer from any serious problems or limitations that would prevent us from greatly expanding our 3D skills and improving our 3D works (even if DAZ drops Carrara 6 in the ocean). Most 3D pros recommend honing one's 3D skills on any adequate app (even a modest one, and Carrara 5 is perhaps significantly better than modest), rather than spending (and wasting) a lot of time, relearning, and money, moving from one 3D app to another, at least until one has developed the 3D skills to make such transition easy (and, by then, perhaps necessary).

rj

P.S. Of course, if pro-level 3D is one's goal, then it makes sense to learn the high-end 3D tools that are used in the industry, but jumping into them before one is ready might actually slow one's learning and be counter-productive.

[Pete Exxtreme]

Originally Posted by behzad

I am just a poor Wabbit trying to get a carrot.
I did not know my little post would stir such commotion. :P

Every subject around Carrara or Hexagon future automatically created more or less "problems" til now ...

[medeamajic]

Originally Posted by Tunesy

...I'll bring it up since nobody else has. For some reason we're missing the forest for the trees. The fact that 'we already own Carrara', or 'we can take the skills somewhere else later' isn't the point. The point is time. Time spent to learn and improve on any app. The value of the time we spend with our 3d apps far exceeds the actual cost of the apps for most of us, even the casual hobbyist. For example, let's play devils advocate and say daz doesn't put out C6 for two years from the time they bought it, which could happen (or not). Let's say it gets the same degree of upgrades that Bryce has gotten during that time and, after that two years, the community is bummed out that we've been spending our time with Carrara to begin with. If that turns out to be the case then we'd wish we could turn back the clock and just buy XSI right now. We'd much rather have spent that two years improving skills with an app that's going places. In fairness to daz though, maybe that won't be the case and they'll put out a nice upgrade. We users have to make a judgment call. We're not going to stand still. Do we wait for daz and see if we're happy with what they do, or, do we move on? I haven't decided yet, but I'm going to decide in the next few months.

I hear you loud and clear.

Had I known Daz was going to buy Carrara I would have invested in XSI hands down. I want software that will get better and better and more feature rich overtime. I wouidl have no worries if Adobe had bought Carrara. I admit I can do good work with Carrara 4 but why not make use of the volumteric clouds and surface replicator in version 5? Sure Carrara 5 works decent but it could work even better with symmetrical modeling and 3-D paint like other programs have.

[medeamajic]

jones2000u,

A few of your words are posted below.


[quote=jones2000u;115135]well that's better! Some positive discussion going on here!

My point is this: Daz have no real reason to bury Carrara, otherwise, why buy it from Eovia? And even if they do mess it up, the learning that I am getting out of using it as an add-on to my professional work, means that I have enjoyed more than 2 years of experience in a prog that I have found to be user-friendly and down-to-earth and more than capable of visualising my ideas for my clients (well, they seem to be happy anyway). And finally, if you mean Daz's website does not look as classy (eg, like Eovia's was), that is just being a snob. Look for the tools, not the colour of the box!

And lastly, I still think Bryce is a bundle of fun to play with, and I still think that's what it's there for.
quote]


I think Bryce is a good program for beginners but the fact remains that Daz stinks when it come to software upgrades. Bryce was much more expensive but Daz lowered the price since it did not keep up with the competition. Bryce was not originally created to be a cheap crappy program. It should have matured like Carrara. Why not just admit Daz does not have a good track record with software upgrades?

I have done free lance work for clients myself. I will be pissed if Daz lets Carrara die. I do not care if Eovia gave me a good product for five years. Daz should give us Eovians good upgrades about once a year not once every 3 years. I doubt anyone would be upset if Adobe or even Avid bought Carrara. Both Adobe and Avid buy out companies and continue to make decent upgrades.

It is embarassing to tell people to visit the Daz website if they only want to buy Carrara. I do not consider myself a snob but if you like to call other forum user who hate the Daz Website snobs more power to ya.

[jones2000u]

I'll shut up after this, promise!

I was unhappy when Daz bought the progs as well, but Eovia sold for a reason. Maybe Carrara wasn't profitable enough. Maybe Daz offered a big suitcase of money. I don't know. I bought Carrara as a special deal because I already had full-price Amapi, and I guess most other people got it fairly cheaply as well, so I reckon I've had a good deal here. But progs come and go - it's a fact of life, so if Carrara does go soft on us, as Lone Gunman says, the learning in general 3d will be worth it anyway.

I apologise, medeamajic, I didn't mean to call any one a snob, all I meant was that it is very easy to get elitist about things like websites and vendors like Daz. I'm prepared to wait and see!

[crazy wabbit]

Okay since i started it, I might as well speak.

My comment was, that I do not wish to learn a new program if and I mean if Carrara is deserted. Why , let me tell you why. Have you tried learning 3dmax, it consists of 1000 of menus and detail to learn, not even including the plugins.

The time it takes me to learn lets say in 2 years from now 3dmax compared to now will be much longer time, because there will be more things to learn that are added to max.

Same with other applications like modo, my point is Programs grow and expand from what used to be a simple program they get bloated.

Oh and another point, if Carrara is so silent as to the next release date, I could be sitting here for years and then with one email they announce the discontinuation of the program. Now what to do, jump on the next band wagon and try to catchup all the years that I did not.

Hope I am clear on this. This is not our fault and none of us here is guilty of, but there are many of us other than hobbyists that run a business and depend on improved bug free programs to run our business.

I love this site, we can talk it out and spill out guts out.

[corzair]

Spill out absolutely

The website is very important IMHO

Its should be relatively easy for a company who can buy Eovia
to make a descent site

With tutorial, videos, hints tips etc all organised in a professional manner
look at the competition, and I feel awkward looking at the dolls house that is the DAZ site.

The Eovia site was much better why not just do some rebranding ie logos on that and leave the rest alone

My first visit to Dazzer forum I met the erm er well he called himself satan!!?
Rather silly noncense goings on if you ask me
I was well put off

Ok I did get Hex very cheap but
I'm also glad I got the Amapi upgrade - so I can head off with my skills set (limited at the moment) that I have aquired with both Carrara and hex

if and when a compelling upgrades come along - also happy I got shade
so I can start learning that

But dont get me wrong I thing Carrara is very cool and at the very least
I have version 5pro that'll keep me learning till i'm ready to move on...

[Nichod]

Originally Posted by medeamajic

Had I known Daz was going to buy Carrara I would have invested in XSI hands down. I want software that will get better and better and more feature rich overtime. I wouidl have no worries if Adobe had bought Carrara.

Carrara was originally bought by Adobe and they had no plans for it. Adobe buys companies and removes the useful components. Then they forget about it. Canoma is a case in point.

[Nichod]

Originally Posted by corzair

The Eovia site was much better why not just do some rebranding ie logos on that and leave the rest alone

The Eovia site was managed by Eovia France. A seperate company that was not acquired by Daz.

[Nichod]

Guys. Daz hasn't dropped either program. I understand the fear. I myself feel the same way at times. But I also know that this is not the case.

The same people that were in charge of Carrara development are working on it as we speak. Charles Brissart, is now Director of Software R&D for both Carrara and Hexagon. He is directing where both Carrara and Hexagon go. Now its obvious that since Daz is big into content and links with Poser that we can expect improvements on that end of things. But we will also see the same great improvements that have come with each release of Carrara. Be patient. Its getting closer to release time I'm sure, if they follow near the normal release schedule. My guess is sometime before next summer we'll see a new Carrara.

As far as Hexagon is concerned. Much of the program doesn't work as expected. But they are building a development team. And its time will come again. Learn what you can of the core modeling tools there and it will only be of an advantage to you when Hexagon gets its update.

[lafnjack]

I think Carrara will be fine. Worrying what Daz >MIGHT< do is premature. Infact, posting that its a big issue might be detrimental. Nothing wrong with queries to find out what's going on, but posting problems might scare away potential Carrara buyers. With less people buying it, there's less incentive for Daz to support it.

We've already heard from many people in the (poly) loop, that the same developers are working on Carrara. All we can do is trust they'll continue their excellent work.

I own a few applications. Lightwave (back in 7.0 days), Zbrush, Animation Master, Carrara Pro 5.1, Blender, Hexagon, and Silo. I do NOT use Lightwave or Blender, because the learning curve is too long. Carrara (and Hexagon) is a phenomenally intuitive application. The MetaCreation/Eovia folks deserve kudos for making an easy to use and understand application. With this same team of developers still working on it, I'm pretty confident that we'll see it grow WITH us, rather than against us.

I'm sure (as others have said) there will be tighter integration with other products like perhaps Bryce, but I've never seen an application upgrade 100% the way I've wanted either. We all have different things we want to see developed. Symmetrical modelling has been a HUGE request, so I'm sure that it, along with better animation capabilities will be on the list.

When will these upgrades happen? Don't know. Will I jump ship? Why? Carrara can do what I want for right now. The upgrades I want are my wishlist... Since when has there been ANY application that people haven't wanted improvements in certain areas?

If we WANT Carrara to succeed, the best bet would be the create and post things that we create, that will make others want to BUY Carrara. Posting unfounded worries will just have the opposite affect.

All my best and Merry Christmas (and Happy Holidays),
John

[crazy wabbit]

Yes you make sense, lets wait and see what happens. DAZ get a dedicated site made for carrara and hex, or even better, one for each.

[Nichod]

When will these upgrades happen? Don't know. Will I jump ship? Why? Carrara can do what I want for right now. The upgrades I want are my wishlist... Since when has there been ANY application that people haven't wanted improvements in certain areas?

Exactly. If you bought it, and it has worked for you thus far. Why switch?

[corzair]

Well I think both apps are good Hex & Car

but they need bug fixes right now! these worries are not unfounded!
the current situation last year was more interesting a buzz waz generated about the
new release etc...

I can work around the bugs by save save save often
but come on now
its been a long while - so common DAZ action would be good

[LoneGunman]

Originally Posted by lafnjack

...Nothing wrong with queries to find out what's going on, but posting problems might scare away potential Carrara buyers...

So what you are actually suggesting here

That we hide the truth about DAZ beeing immature as developer and Carrara's rendering engine dark sides and shortcomings ?

DAZ needs to start immidiately with small incremental updates (patches) for HEX and Carrara and give some kind of info on progress of future updates and versions so that they can keep customer beeing interested.

And what is all that big fuss about how DAZ website looks like (?), c'mon people, who cares if Carrara is going to be what we want it to be, users are the ones who make sales, not looks of the website...

Another thing, some better organic modelers can whip out a very good female model, fully dressed and textured, in few weeks, it took DAZ team 2 years (someone correct me here) to come up with Victoria 4, what that tells us about them ???

[jones2000u]

hello corzair - I'm interested in what bugs you found? I haven't had any yet that I would call bugs, although sometimes things happen that are a bit... shakey, let's say.

Anyway, although I said I would butt out, I can't help but agree with lafnjack. I really would like to see Daz develop into a proper mainstream 3d developer, which I'm sure is what they are aiming at. I think they are doing it the hard way, but then hey.

It looks like the general opinion is that we all like Carrara and want to see it grow, so the best thing would be to support it. The digital carvers guild wouldn't mess about with a turkey, would they. And neither would I or anyone else here who has found it to be a solid piece of software.

Small side thought: I like the way I can use Shade to model beziers, Amapi to model "engineering" and Carrara to assemble and colour up. Each work module is neatly contained in each program for me, so the idea of a super-complicated brain-damage programme doesn't arise. I can use whichever bit I prefer as I see fit. Nice.

Behzad, I know where you're coming from on with regards small business (that's what I am as well) and the problems of learning software. I think that's where Carrara fits in. Not too expensive, not too bloated with complicated machinery and quite user-friendly. All the technical support you need is right here.