Animation-wise

[lafnjack]

If this violates policy, my apologies...

But I was curious how people felt Cararra Pro's animation capabilities were, compared to Animation Master.


Thanks!
John

[Couerl]

No policy violation that I know of.
From what I understand, Animation Master has some very cool things to be said about it, but what it lacks is compatability with other formats and you can't really model in it worth a crap. Carrara is probably much better in the sense that it's a lot more flexible and has at least fair animation tools. In the right hands, I've seen it do some very nice animations at that.

[medeamajic]

AM can do some cool things but the GUI is very different from other 3-D programs. Carrara may not be as good as 3DS Max for figure animation or as good as Vue Infinite for landscapes and atmoshperes but Carrara can hold it's own against the competiion. You should try the demo to see if you like the GUI. Do you want to do figure animation or landscape style scenes?

[lafnjack]

Thanks for the responses.

I have Carrara Pro 5 and Animation Master. I'm interested in working on a little animation project right now on my own, in a toon shaded format.

I enjoy both tools, but haven't played with Carrara's animation at all (just enjoyed its vector modelling capabilities). So I'm curious if it can do the same things that AM can. I'm interested specifically in a simple cartoon character animation with toon shading. Probably similar to some of the comic characters in the background of "Corpse Bride".

I guess I'm looking to find what the Carrara folks think about animating in their tool. I primarily hear good points about its modelling and ability to import/export other formats. I don't hear as much on its animating capabilities.

Thanks for your help,
John


PS: Not a slight against either tool. As I said, I enjoy both very much. Just need some input from people who have more experience than me.

[medeamajic]

Carrara can do toon style and sketch pad style animations very well. You will need to use bones, skeltons and morphing to get results like the Simpsons and Ren and Stimpy but it can be done.

[lafnjack]

I appreciate the input!

John

[crazy wabbit]

I really like to see some character animation done with carrara, I mean the high quality character animation that is done with other apps.

I would appreciate a link or two.

[Tunesy]

"I have Carrara Pro 5 and Animation Master. I'm interested in working on a little animation project right now on my own, in a toon shaded format." Frankly, that's a no brainer if you have both. I love Carrara, but Animation Master is far stronger for character animation. The modeling in AM is also excellent, but, it can be hard for people to get their head around it if they have a lot of experience with polys. In fact, it can be infuriating ;) 'Poly logic' doesn't necessary translate to 'patch logic'. Modeling in AM is really quite elegant once you get used to it. If you peek in on some of the Maya boards you'll find people who do Maya for a living but use AM for their personal work. There's a reason for that.

[lafnjack]

Tunesy, thanks for the reply...

Frankly, that's a no brainer if you have both. I love Carrara, but Animation Master is far stronger for character animation. The modeling in AM is also excellent, but, it can be hard for people to get their head around it if they have a lot of experience with polys. In fact, it can be infuriating ;) 'Poly logic' doesn't necessary translate to 'patch logic'. Modeling in AM is really quite elegant once you get used to it. If you peek in on some of the Maya boards you'll find people who do Maya for a living but use AM for their personal work. There's a reason for that.
---
But given that case, what then would you say is Carrara's strength over Animation Master?
And I would assume you have Carrara as well. Why did you choose it?

Thanks much for the discussion and pointers...
John

[medeamajic]

Tunesy,

I can easily use the Demo of Lightwave, C4D and Maya but AM was very odd. I think with AM you either like it or hate it. I have seen some good work done with AM even though I could not get it to do much. Could you post a small 10-20 second animation that you did with AM?



lafnjack,

You have asked some good questions and Tunesy should be a able to post a sample to show you what can be acheived with the HASH AM software VS Carrara. AM does not play well with other polygon based programs so you would have to be 100% satisfied with AM as is. That does not mean it is no good. It is just a bit different and something to keep in mind. You may infact find the AM GUI better than Carrara's. I like Carrara's GUI but others hate it. In the end it is best to test drive the demo before you buy the actual program.

[Tunesy]

"you would have to be 100% satisfied with AM as is." He's exactly right. The biggest drawback to AM is that you're pretty much locked into the AM universe of Hash patches. I understand that's improved somewhat, but I haven't used AM enough in the last year to confirm one way or the other. I own and run a business unrelated to 3dcg. I don't have unlimited time for this hobby. My main interest is animating, not modeling/mapping/rigging and texturing, although I've done all those tasks with AM. Consequently, animating in Poser and rendering in Carrara is ideal for me. I can start with well made human figures without having to model/map/rig/texture them. I can just get right on to animating. I love Carrara as a host for rendering, but if you're choosing between Carrara and AM (yes, I've owned them both for a few years) to create character animation from scratch then it really is a no brainer: AM is a far stronger and easier to work with tool. If you want to throw Poser into the mix to eliminate several of those tasks then the equation becomes reversed. I don't think anyone in 3dcg, hobbyist or pro, would seriously compare Carrara to AM for character animation. AM has the toolset and Carrara simply does not.

[medeamajic]

Tunesy,

Interesting you would post what you did. I did not want to speak for you since Lafnjack asked what you thought Carrara's strong points were. I think you would agree the strong points of Carrara may not be figure animation but the fact that Carrara has a Spline Modeler, Vertex, Modeler, Text Modeler, Plant Editor, Particles, Physics Engine, Atmosphere editor, Terrian editor and the ability to import pre made Poser figures. You are right the use of Poser and Tranposer with Carrara will make things much easier than AM. I agree AM has power but then again Carrara's strength is it's simplicity. Carrara may not have all the bells and whistles but at least I can use it. I am sure Carrara 6 will be a good upgrade with better figure animation.

[lafnjack]

Thanks medeamajic and Tunesy.

Hash patches are pretty intuitive to me, and I'm just now starting to look at box modelling techniques. I guess the best thing I can do is to make a simple figure and animate it in both packages and see which workflow is best suited to me.

Unfortunately, I love both applications, so its been difficult for me to choose to go with one or the other. But I guess the only way is to do what I want in both (on a small scale) and see which yields the look I want quickest.

Thanks!
John

[medeamajic]

Good idea. Perhaps you can post a few short clips from both programs in these forums and let us know which one you like best.

[lafnjack]

Definitely. First I just gotta do up the first character, and then come up with a bit of a walk cycle... In both apps.

John

[medeamajic]

For walk cycles in Carrara use the IK chain link located in the same pallette as the resize and rotate icons. It took me a while to learn how to use that feature but perhaps you already use it. It helps the figures feet stick to the floor.

[lafnjack]

Thanks medeamajic... I appreciate the tip.

One more question for anyone who knows.

I've started my project now in Carrara. For some reason, the Vertex modeller just seems alot more intuitive and comfortable to me, than Hexagon does (although Hexagon is my next favorite polygonal modeller).

Here's my question...

I'm modelling half of a head right now, and will end up modelling half of the body. If I "Duplicate with Symmetry", do I have to weld every point on the model? Is there a way to duplicate it with symmetry with ZERO distance, and automatically have it connect the corresponding point?

Thanks,
John

[medeamajic]

I wish I could help. I use Hexagon for modeling but if Carrara 6 has symmetrical modeling I doubt I will use Hexagon again. The only thing I remember about duplicate with symmetry is that it duplicates to what ever grid is selected. It took me a while to figure that one out.

[cckens]

Lafnjack,
Medeamajic is correct on the grid selection... But it's pretty intuitive once you get it down. My method is as follows...

My grid for modelling is 50 units x 50 units. I select the half of my model that I want to duplicate and then check the value of Y in the property window. This gives me the center of the model. I then select the y-gridplane by Ctrl-Left Clicking the plane on the modelling window. That grid plane gets brighter white when selected. I then Dupe with Symmetry and the duplicate appears on the negative side of the plane. I then deselect all, then select the duplicate. I then change the Y value of the model to the NEGATIVE value of the original and it lines it up all nice and neat. I marquee the center points that overlap, then weld using a tolerance of .01 or so. Since they should be on the same points, the model welds together... Simple, right?

Caveat Ahead!!!!!
Model your original half so the open end points lie on the y-axis at 0.000! Anything in the negative range will overlap. Easiest correction is to just model as normal, then select a point on the opening, and move the whole model correspondingly so that those points lie at 0 on the x-axis.
The y-axis is arbitrary for me. I tend to model using the left view as a front viewport. You can use any you see fit, just adjust accordingly.
50 units grid is arbitrary. I model large, and will reduce later if needed. Once again, use any size you want. The position data is what counts.

I'll post some pics of my technique in a bit after I've captured them...
Ken

here we go... pics ahead...
















Voila, and so it ends....
Ken

[lafnjack]

CCKens,

THANKS! That makes it alot easier. I was initially bringing the two objects close together and then welding them, but it made one side a TAD oblong. This is the PERFECT solution! Much appreciated!

John