[C5 H2.1] Sonata in C - First Post - Polyloop

shannonhoppe · 14th September 2006, 12:52

Hello All,

This is my most recent work and also my first post at Polyloop

I would appreciate your constructive feedback on this image. Don't hold back on me. I can take it.

The objects in the scene were created with Hexagon 2.1 and assembled/rendered with C5. The only post work on the image is the border frame around the edge and the inclusion of my logo. Textures were created using PaintShop Pro X.

Screenshots of the process and aditional images are available here.

Thanks a million in advance.

crazy wabbit · 14th September 2006, 18:23

Nice but dark

mon_stdnt · 14th September 2006, 22:33

It is kind of dark. In the addtional screenshots, the progress was great. althought i would prefer really texture of the rose. The modelling is great.
8/10

-ash- · 15th September 2006, 00:02

Overall I like this picture, but you said not to hold back so here's some thoughts

As has been said the rose is a bit big. I also don't think it is red enough. Needs to be brighter. Otherwise good model.

To my eyes there is something wrong with the keyboard, the black keys look too short and too rounded. Also there is not enough space around them. For some reason the white keys at the top right of the picture appear to be rounded on the top face. Piano keys are usually flat with slight radius on the very edges.
Have a look at this picture that I used as a reference for my comments: http://www.markgoodwinpianos.co.uk/i...ha-u1/keys.jpg

Black textures on the piano body are great but the black keys look a bit dull. I would imagine this is down to the lighting or maybe you have nothing above them to be reflected to show off that nice high gloss these keys have.

I also have a feeling your ambient light is too high indicated by the shadows in the rose. They look a bit washed out. Try taking the ambient down to zero and doing a test render. Raise the ambient until you are happy with the effect but shadows are still dark. Otherwise leave the ambient at zero and use other lights.

I hope this was not too much. It is a nice pic but I feel it could be great with some tweaking

Narration · 15th September 2006, 14:05

On the darkness, I wonder if the problem is to do with rendering on a Mac - with the different Gamma there -- if it was a Mac...

If so, the Gamma correction in the Carrara renderer probably will fix it by being turned on.

Scale - yes. Colors etc. - wait to see what it looks like when overall illumination corrected.

Kind regards,
Narration

shannonhoppe · 15th September 2006, 23:45

Excellent feedback! Thank you very, very much. I'll roll up my sleeves and dig back in on the scene this weekend. New update will follow.

Thanks again!

shannonhoppe · 17th September 2006, 05:29

Thanks for all the great feedback. I'm back and looking to some more

I changed the lighting, materials and added reflections. The keys have been remodeled. The rose is now a more appropriate size.

My screen was way dark. After I pumped up the brightness I saw what others were saying about the black keys being washed out. Guess it might be time for me to replace my archaic CRT (way too bulky)

There are still shadow issues to be resolved and now some nasty hot spots on some of the white keys. I might go to the store to buy rose to pluck the petals and scan some textures. Also, no matter what I try there is a problem with the keys looking odd in the back portions of the pic. It's a weird optical thing. Would it be appropriate here to purposely increase the gap between keys even though it would be modeled "wrong"?

I'm here to learn. I appreciate all the help.

L8r

Selocic · 17th September 2006, 09:44

A huge improvement, Shannon! Great job!

I like especially like how you improved the piano keys overall. And the dimension of the rose is much better now.

Keep up the good work!

-ash- · 17th September 2006, 12:15

Having your monitor set up right is essential for this kind of work. If you're on PC and have Photoshop you should have Adobe Gamma somewhere on your hard drive. Use that to help set up your CRT.

Anyway, this is looking much better now! I think the problem with the keys is down to lighting. I don't think you need to incease the space in the model, I can see the gaps quite clearly on my screen here. It is just that the light is shining into the gaps making the shadow much less obvious.

Try moving the lights around, and maybe adjusting to camera angle until it looks ok.

Grendel · 17th September 2006, 15:10

I agree with what Ash said earlier, the white keys are a little round on top, flatten them out. If your using Carrara's VM then select the keys and got to Model/Crease edges/All. That will also reduce the highlights from the lights.

shannonhoppe · 18th September 2006, 23:10

A little update. Somewhere along the way a mishap befell the rose. I need to reshape it to look more like the rose I want as well as get the texture right. The overall lighting of the pic is still way too dark! I'll work on the rose and the lighting tonight.

Quick question:

I took Grendel's advice (thank you for the VM tip, much appreciated) and creased the edges of the keys. When I did it appeared to have creased everything in my scene. Is this supposed to happen?

I ended up importing the creased keys into a copied scene. Could I have avoided this?

As always, CnC's greatly welcome.
Update will follow.
Thanks for looking

shannonhoppe · 20th September 2006, 04:53

Thanks for all the good feedback and encouragement. Here is the final result.

mon_stdnt · 20th September 2006, 04:59

Thats a great improvement from the first post you did. The final version is awesome, and the texture of the rose is great. Its gallery worthy.

shannonhoppe · 20th September 2006, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mon_stdnt

Thats a great improvement from the first post you did. The final version is awesome, and the texture of the rose is great. Its gallery worthy.

Thanks Mon_Stdnt!

I owe this work to the kind help from the folks here at Polyloop and to the great people on the DazCarrara Yahoo forum. Thank you.

Now, what to do for the next project, hmmm...

Grendel · 20th September 2006, 18:50

If the black and white keys are the same vertex object then yes that would happen. You did the right thing with the copy/paste. The rose looks a little to close to wilted but I like the shape better

Great improvemnt over the begining.

-ash- · 20th September 2006, 20:54

Looks good now. The next one will be even better

JuST · 20th September 2006, 21:38

Wow, yeah, I really like it. But I think the blossom of the flower is to big. the lenght is ok, but in my opinion it should be thinner... does someone think so, too?

radstorm · 21st September 2006, 02:03

I think it looks great, nice rendering. Would be a nice cover shot for a classical music album

edcorusa · 21st September 2006, 15:51

Ya, that is some great work. The texture and view look really good.

Sketchy · 21st September 2006, 16:55

Looks good and real. Nice rendering of a piano. That's what I see on my monitor.

The only thing that doesn't look right is the composition, IMO. The first one seems right -- there's a spot you could focus your eyes on. On the last one the observer can't seem to decide where the focus is on. If you could just move the flower at an angle so it points a bit to the paper's corner, and maybe try to put the paper on the left side. It may not work, but you can try.

. Also, the mirror reflection is a little too bright and distracting.

14th September 2006, 12:52	#1 (permalink)
shannonhoppe Mesh Clunker Join Date: May 2006 Location: A corner of Missouri forgotten by time. Posts: 18	[C5 H2.1] Sonata in C - First Post Hello All, This is my most recent work and also my first post at Polyloop I would appreciate your constructive feedback on this image. Don't hold back on me. I can take it. The objects in the scene were created with Hexagon 2.1 and assembled/rendered with C5. The only post work on the image is the border frame around the edge and the inclusion of my logo. Textures were created using PaintShop Pro X. Screenshots of the process and aditional images are available here. Thanks a million in advance. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes. - My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult

14th September 2006, 22:33	#3 (permalink)
mon_stdnt Always learning Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 446	It is kind of dark. In the addtional screenshots, the progress was great. althought i would prefer really texture of the rose. The modelling is great. 8/10 __________________ www.rgamarra.com

15th September 2006, 00:02	#4 (permalink)
-ash- I'm Batman (in 3D) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Over the road, round the corner, out of the noise. (Scotland) Posts: 765	Overall I like this picture, but you said not to hold back so here's some thoughts As has been said the rose is a bit big. I also don't think it is red enough. Needs to be brighter. Otherwise good model. To my eyes there is something wrong with the keyboard, the black keys look too short and too rounded. Also there is not enough space around them. For some reason the white keys at the top right of the picture appear to be rounded on the top face. Piano keys are usually flat with slight radius on the very edges. Have a look at this picture that I used as a reference for my comments: http://www.markgoodwinpianos.co.uk/i...ha-u1/keys.jpg Black textures on the piano body are great but the black keys look a bit dull. I would imagine this is down to the lighting or maybe you have nothing above them to be reflected to show off that nice high gloss these keys have. I also have a feeling your ambient light is too high indicated by the shadows in the rose. They look a bit washed out. Try taking the ambient down to zero and doing a test render. Raise the ambient until you are happy with the effect but shadows are still dark. Otherwise leave the ambient at zero and use other lights. I hope this was not too much. It is a nice pic but I feel it could be great with some tweaking __________________ Regards Tony (aka HamSoles)

15th September 2006, 23:45	#6 (permalink)
shannonhoppe Mesh Clunker Join Date: May 2006 Location: A corner of Missouri forgotten by time. Posts: 18	Excellent feedback! Thank you very, very much. I'll roll up my sleeves and dig back in on the scene this weekend. New update will follow. Thanks again! __________________ "Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes. - My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult

17th September 2006, 05:29	#7 (permalink)
shannonhoppe Mesh Clunker Join Date: May 2006 Location: A corner of Missouri forgotten by time. Posts: 18	Thanks for all the great feedback. I'm back and looking to some more I changed the lighting, materials and added reflections. The keys have been remodeled. The rose is now a more appropriate size. My screen was way dark. After I pumped up the brightness I saw what others were saying about the black keys being washed out. Guess it might be time for me to replace my archaic CRT (way too bulky) There are still shadow issues to be resolved and now some nasty hot spots on some of the white keys. I might go to the store to buy rose to pluck the petals and scan some textures. Also, no matter what I try there is a problem with the keys looking odd in the back portions of the pic. It's a weird optical thing. Would it be appropriate here to purposely increase the gap between keys even though it would be modeled "wrong"? I'm here to learn. I appreciate all the help. L8r __________________ "Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes. - My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult

14th September 2006, 18:23	#2 (permalink)
crazy wabbit Now, I learn animation Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,381	Nice but dark

15th September 2006, 14:05	#5 (permalink)
Narration citoyen Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: north of alps Posts: 226	On the darkness, I wonder if the problem is to do with rendering on a Mac - with the different Gamma there -- if it was a Mac... If so, the Gamma correction in the Carrara renderer probably will fix it by being turned on. Scale - yes. Colors etc. - wait to see what it looks like when overall illumination corrected. Kind regards, Narration

17th September 2006, 09:44	#8 (permalink)
Selocic Extrusion Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 161	A huge improvement, Shannon! Great job! I like especially like how you improved the piano keys overall. And the dimension of the rose is much better now. Keep up the good work! __________________ "Selocic" - 3D: when 'Flat' just isn't good enough! - S'il vous plaît pardonner mon français. C'est la courtoisie de services de traduction en ligne et les classes de français d'école primaire.

17th September 2006, 12:15	#9 (permalink)
-ash- I'm Batman (in 3D) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Over the road, round the corner, out of the noise. (Scotland) Posts: 765	Having your monitor set up right is essential for this kind of work. If you're on PC and have Photoshop you should have Adobe Gamma somewhere on your hard drive. Use that to help set up your CRT. Anyway, this is looking much better now! I think the problem with the keys is down to lighting. I don't think you need to incease the space in the model, I can see the gaps quite clearly on my screen here. It is just that the light is shining into the gaps making the shadow much less obvious. Try moving the lights around, and maybe adjusting to camera angle until it looks ok. __________________ Regards Tony (aka HamSoles)

17th September 2006, 15:10	#10 (permalink)
Grendel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,262	I agree with what Ash said earlier, the white keys are a little round on top, flatten them out. If your using Carrara's VM then select the keys and got to Model/Crease edges/All. That will also reduce the highlights from the lights. Last edited by Grendel; 20th September 2006 at 18:47.

18th September 2006, 23:10	#11 (permalink)
shannonhoppe Mesh Clunker Join Date: May 2006 Location: A corner of Missouri forgotten by time. Posts: 18	A little update. Somewhere along the way a mishap befell the rose. I need to reshape it to look more like the rose I want as well as get the texture right. The overall lighting of the pic is still way too dark! I'll work on the rose and the lighting tonight. Quick question: I took Grendel's advice (thank you for the VM tip, much appreciated) and creased the edges of the keys. When I did it appeared to have creased everything in my scene. Is this supposed to happen? I ended up importing the creased keys into a copied scene. Could I have avoided this? As always, CnC's greatly welcome. Update will follow. Thanks for looking __________________ "Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes. - My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult

20th September 2006, 04:53	#12 (permalink)
shannonhoppe Mesh Clunker Join Date: May 2006 Location: A corner of Missouri forgotten by time. Posts: 18	Thanks for all the great help Thanks for all the good feedback and encouragement. Here is the final result. __________________ "Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes. - My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult

20th September 2006, 04:59	#13 (permalink)
mon_stdnt Always learning Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York Posts: 446	Thats a great improvement from the first post you did. The final version is awesome, and the texture of the rose is great. Its gallery worthy. __________________ www.rgamarra.com

20th September 2006, 18:50	#15 (permalink)
Grendel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,262	If the black and white keys are the same vertex object then yes that would happen. You did the right thing with the copy/paste. The rose looks a little to close to wilted but I like the shape better Great improvemnt over the begining.

20th September 2006, 20:54	#16 (permalink)
-ash- I'm Batman (in 3D) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Over the road, round the corner, out of the noise. (Scotland) Posts: 765	Looks good now. The next one will be even better __________________ Regards Tony (aka HamSoles)

20th September 2006, 21:38	#17 (permalink)
JuST Pixar want to hire me! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Braunschweig, Germany Posts: 500	Wow, yeah, I really like it. But I think the blossom of the flower is to big. the lenght is ok, but in my opinion it should be thinner... does someone think so, too?

21st September 2006, 02:03	#18 (permalink)
radstorm Spline Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Central Indiana, USA Posts: 51	Looks great I think it looks great, nice rendering. Would be a nice cover shot for a classical music album

21st September 2006, 15:51	#19 (permalink)
edcorusa Vertex Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Carlsbad, NM USA Posts: 18	Ya, that is some great work. The texture and view look really good. __________________ ------------- Brian Weston edcorusa edcorusa.cgsociety.org

21st September 2006, 16:55	#20 (permalink)
Sketchy Box modeling Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 317	Looks good and real. Nice rendering of a piano. That's what I see on my monitor. The only thing that doesn't look right is the composition, IMO. The first one seems right -- there's a spot you could focus your eyes on. On the last one the observer can't seem to decide where the focus is on. If you could just move the flower at an angle so it points a bit to the paper's corner, and maybe try to put the paper on the left side. It may not work, but you can try.. Also, the mirror reflection is a little too bright and distracting. Attached Thumbnails

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